Being investigated by the HMRC

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Early this year a childminder was investigated by the HMRC and asked me for advice. Below are the comments she sent to me today.

Hi

Some things are still ongoing but they definitely would not let me claim for any of my BSL courses or even my NVQ 2 and 3.

I stood my ground on a lot of the other things and I have managed to claim for a lot of the stuff she originally said I couldn't claim for.

She also told me that my toiletries and cleaning materials were excessive, to which my reply was if I want to clean excessively I will. I then sent a complete break down if every single toiletry and cleaning item that I use. It was only £9 per week in total.

She also disputed how many batteries I use so sent her a list of every battery operated toy I use.

Also disputed printer ink and paper £60 per year and wanted to know exactly what I print. I sent a list of every EYFS document, policies, procedures contracts and numerous other documents. She backed down.

I am not happy about the different CPD but she sent me some case studies regarding courses and I had to end up just agreeing with her but told her I wasn't happy.

Hope this helps in some way.

I see on face book in some of the childminding groups what they are claiming for and I haven't claimed for anywhere near what some people are claiming.


The lady would like to keep her details anonymous

From Debbie - I have spoken to my accountant who advised that I can do CPD courses as they would be allowable so I am glad I have him to fight my corner if needed.

From this I have learnt that I should put into my accounts what is justifyable and if, like the childminder being investigated, you are paying tax get a good accountant as they will save you in the long run.

Don’t take anything given on any website as the truth as we are not professionals but people giving our own opinion, check it out yourself and note the date and the name of the person at the HMRC who gave you the details.

[natlou82]

Thank you this is all very useful and good advice :-)

[wee_elf]

Thanks for this

[bunyip]

Thanks CC.

My CM group had a visit/presentation from an HMRC business support person. We asked the question about training and CPD costs. She was adamant that we could only claim for the renewal/refresher of existing qualifications which were essential for continuing our registration. No other training expenses were permitted. Therefore, first aid, safeguarding, etc. = fine. But not allowed to claim for level 3, baby signing, play courses, etc.

Someone asked "why?" since we're expected to demonstrate CPD, and she said (to paraphrase) that HMRC don't really 'do' why? - their job is to apply the rules, not to justify them.

Several CMs commented that their accountants had told them they could claim for all training/CPD (and a number of other things the HMRC person said were not admissible.) She replied that a lot of things accountants claimed were being rejected by inspectors all the time.

[hectors house]

Thanks CC.

My CM group had a visit/presentation from an HMRC business support person. We asked the question about training and CPD costs. She was adamant that we could only claim for the renewal/refresher of existing qualifications which were essential for continuing our registration. No other training expenses were permitted. Therefore, first aid, safeguarding, etc. = fine. But not allowed to claim for level 3, baby signing, play courses, etc.

Someone asked "why?" since we're expected to demonstrate CPD, and she said (to paraphrase) that HMRC don't really 'do' why? - their job is to apply the rules, not to justify them.

Several CMs commented that their accountants had told them they could claim for all training/CPD (and a number of other things the HMRC person said were not admissible.) She replied that a lot of things accountants claimed were being rejected by inspectors all the time.

When I go on courses on: behaviour, observations, signing, outdoor play etc - Nursery staff are on them as well, so the nurseries must be able to claim through their accounts - why do we have to do the same (if not more) than Nurseries for Ofsted but the tax man won't treat us as such!

[bunyip]

When I go on courses on: behaviour, observations, signing, outdoor play etc - Nursery staff are on them as well, so the nurseries must be able to claim through their accounts - why do we have to do the same (if not more) than Nurseries for Ofsted but the tax man won't treat us as such!

Agreed, absolutely. But I think it comes down to the comment that "why?" doesn't interest the tax office.

[Simona]

Early this year a childminder was investigated by the HMRC and asked me for advice. Below are the comments she sent to me today.

Hi

Some things are still ongoing but they definitely would not let me claim for any of my BSL courses or even my NVQ 2 and 3.

I stood my ground on a lot of the other things and I have managed to claim for a lot of the stuff she originally said I couldn't claim for.

She also told me that my toiletries and cleaning materials were excessive, to which my reply was if I want to clean excessively I will. I then sent a complete break down if every single toiletry and cleaning item that I use. It was only £9 per week in total.

She also disputed how many batteries I use so sent her a list of every battery operated toy I use.

Also disputed printer ink and paper £60 per year and wanted to know exactly what I print. I sent a list of every EYFS document, policies, procedures contracts and numerous other documents. She backed down.

I agree that investing in an accountant is money well spent in the long run
Accountants will be aware of the rules that govern childminding and be in a better position to advise us on our individual business...where unsure they can find out directly from HMRC...worth every penny in my view


I am not happy about the different CPD but she sent me some case studies regarding courses and I had to end up just agreeing with her but told her I wasn't happy.

Hope this helps in some way.

I see on face book in some of the childminding groups what they are claiming for and I haven't claimed for anywhere near what some people are claiming.


The lady would like to keep her details anonymous

From Debbie - I have spoken to my accountant who advised that I can do CPD courses as they would be allowable so I am glad I have him to fight my corner if needed.

From this I have learnt that I should put into my accounts what is justifyable and if, like the childminder being investigated, you are paying tax get a good accountant as they will save you in the long run.

Don’t take anything given on any website as the truth as we are not professionals but people giving our own opinion, check it out yourself and note the date and the name of the person at the HMRC who gave you the details.

I agree that investing in an accountant is money well spent in the long run
A qualified accountant will be aware of the rules governing childminding and our our small businesses and can make direct enquiries with HMRC on our behalf...worth every penny in my view

[wee_elf]

I am finding this really useful, so thanks to everyone contributing . Could I ask how much roughly a accountant costs? Thank you

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I am not a sole trader so my costs are a typical. I believe from talking to others it will be between £70-£100 depending on how much work you do yourself.

[SYLVIA]

would we be able to claim the accountant's fee

[Kiddleywinks]

Yes Sylvia, it is a legitimate business cost (professional fees)

[wee_elf]

I am not a sole trader so my costs are a typical. I believe from talking to others it will be between £70-£100 depending on how much work you do yourself.

Thank you :-) x

[Simona]

I am finding this really useful, so thanks to everyone contributing . Could I ask how much roughly a accountant costs? Thank you

As Chatterbox says accountant fees can vary depending on what you do and who they are and what they do

I would approach a local accountant and then ask if they would do a special fee if a group of CMs all used the company for their accounts...make sure they are aware of the CMs special HMRC package
Accountants usually get paid at the end of the year when they have submitted the tax return on behalf of CMs and sent you the estimate of the taxes you need to pay

Their fees can also be 'saved every month'...put a little bit away in a CM savings account to accumulate the final fee and yes it is part of our allowed expenses

[Simona]

Chatterbox...thanks for making enquiries about the expenses for Level 2 or 3
I have found this which is very useful...it appears that workers in a nursery will probably get the cost of level 3 subsidised by their employer when cms may actually have to meet the whole cost
Any nursery meeting costs will put it through their books I suppose
I know of students full paid by their LA or employer...they only have to pay if they withdraw or leave the setting within a year.

This needs to be looked into by representing associations who can take it up with the appropriate body
'
This info is from Boston College who clearly state that employers may help a student...but obviously not applicable to cms as we are self employed...click 'fees' on the link and it is there

Children and Young People´s Workforce (CYPW) CACHE Diploma Level 3

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Simona I have left the question with Pacey and they are in contact with the HMRC - more will be posted when known - main subject for me on paceylocal so that will be updated first

[Simona]

Simona I have left the question with Pacey and they are in contact with the HMRC - more will be posted when known - main subject for me on paceylocal so that will be updated first

Thanks Chatterbox...I did get that post in my inbox so will be looking forward to the answer