Shocking!!.....

[rickysmiths]

Who pays for your cots, bedding, bibs, high chairs, children's furniture, pushchairs, car seats, internet, printer, ink, computer, journals, diaries, disinfectant, sterilizing equipment, training (CPD), display boards, continual cultural and festival activities, birthday and christmas pressies etc.... etc..... etc.... there are so many other expenses - don't get me wrong I do heavily invest in my setting but I can definitely say 30% would not touch my expenses - it may cover my consumable items on a daily basis(I include everything) i.e. food, toiletries, cleaning products, arts and crafts and maybe amenities.

The short answer is I do.

However there are only so many cots, buggies etc you need. I have only ever bought 3 travel cots in 20 years of minding and the most expensive was £55 and the newest was £29.95 from Kiddi care.

I had two high chairs when I started minding, they were my own childrens I have only ever bought two more when those wore out, they cost £40 each and have been going strong for 14 years and still are.

I have had 6 buggies in 20 years one Sliver Cross, the most expensive but it was my daughters and I still use it 21 years on. A Maclaren single which I bought second hand for my daughter and it lasted me 7 years when I replaced it with another for approx £80. When I started I bought a secondhand silver cross double buggy for £75 (I found the add from the paper just before Christmas when I was sorting out!) and I replaced this with a MaClaren double for £199 in 2001 and I am still using it, used it on the school run today. About 5 years ago I bought a single MaClaren which goes flat for sleeping and spent £95.

My car Seats are Britax ones which cost £89, £90, £120 and I have 2 high backed boosters for £30 each these have all been bought over the last 10 years.

In the last 10 years I have spent £300 on a shed and have bought 2 printers for approx £80 each.

So you see I don't in the bigger picture spend a massive amount. I worked out a couple of weeks ago that the paperwork needed to start a child so parents Contracts etc, LJs costs £27. The on going costs of printer ink etc is easily covered by the £17 extra a week though I have a bit more because I charge more than £3ph. LJ and food and craft etc costs are proportional to the number of children you have.

I costed in First Aid and Child Protection. I prob spend another £100 to £150 on PD each year though a couple of years ago I spent an additional £250 to do my Level 3 (LA paid the rest).

Even so I haven't gone over the 30% in 10 years + and before that I don't think I claimed enough so I am glad I started to use an accountant she has reduced my tax a lot.

My average Expenses are £6-8,000 a year but have been as much as £10,000 when I had 4 under 5s full time and 2 before and after school.

[Koala]

Wow, I don't have any of the equipment I had when I started 10 years ago, they have all been replaced more than once, twice even three times.

[hectors house]

[QUOTE=rickysmiths;1337874]The short answer is I do.

My car Seats are Britax ones which cost £89, £90, £120 and I have 2 high backed boosters for £30 each these have all been bought over the last 10 years.

QUOTE]

You may want to check that your car seats meet the current necessary EU standards - I found a britax website that lists the numbers on the seats that are still allowed to be used - I checked my 3 seats as they are all between 6 -8 years old and found that one of them annoyingly the one that is only 6 years old, doesn't meet current standards - so I am in the process of trying to find another one slim enough to fit 3 seats across the back of my car. Quite annoyed as a parent recently offered me a Britax seat and I told her that I'm not allowed to have 2nd hand seats and she gave it to someone else.

http://www.britax.co.uk/safety-centr...ns/regulations

Child Safety Standard – ECE label
All car seats must display an ECE R44/04 certification label to indicate they comply with standard safety requirement.

Year after year, our child car seats exceed the European Test Standard for Child Restraints ECE R 44 introduced in 1982. The constantly upgraded requirements of the standard clearly show the change which has taken place in child safety.

From April 2008, all child car seats that were manufactured before 1995 and approved to the ECE R Standard Regulations 44/01 and 44/02 are no longer legal and must not be used.

All BRITAX child car seats are tested and approved to the current Child
Safety Standard ECE R 44/04, shown by the first two numbers on the approval number on the orange approval label (ECE-label).

Explanation of the ECE-label

shows for which category the child seat has been approved
approved for weight
"Y" shows that this child seat has a 5-point harness system with crotch strap
European Approval indicator
indication for country in which the approval was obtained (1=Germany, 2=France, 3=Italy, 4=the Netherlands etc.)
Approval number. The first two numbers show to which version ECE R 44 the child seat has been approved (in this case ECE R 44/04)
current number

[Koala]

like Hectors House said, also I was under the impression that it was good practice to replace every 3 years because of aging materials, stress on padding and the endurance of the polystyrene in the seats and also the plastics can age and become brittle over time, being in very hot and very cold cars. Sorry to deliver an expensive post.

[Simona]

Some costs are not proportionate to the number of children actually on roll because they will be incurred even if we have one child in our care ...they are part of direct or indirect expenses

Sorry but that is true...
Training will be an expense whether we have 10 children or just the one
The same goes for printing Ofsted factsheets...insurance, m'ship, broadband, use of computer and much more

[Tazmin68]

I replaced all of my car seats in the last 6 months and boosters all were over 3 years old and three were not displaying the correct safety certificates.

[rickysmiths]

it is not really to do with what is investigated...it is to do with your business and what you put through as legitimate expenses:
Direct costs
Indirect costs
Motor running
Telecomms
utilities
depreciation

New Resources should not all be part of your Wear and Tear but purchase of equipment needed for the business...again we do things differently...
maybe someone would like to add the expenses incurred ..they will be more than 30%

in addition what we get back for gas, electricity, water, council tax and wear and tear has not changed for the last 30 years...it is not adequate to cover the cost of running a business from home

Mine are not more than 30% unless there is a good reason because I budget so I don't go over that %.

What we get back for gas and Electric is exactly the same as 20 years ago a % so it is now more because the cost of utilities has gone up. We claim up to 33% of the increased bills. Same with Council Tax mine is now 10% of £146 a month instead of the £70 a month 20 years ago, so I am off setting £1.46 a month instead of 70p.

[rickysmiths]

[QUOTE=hectors house;1337901]

The short answer is I do.

My car Seats are Britax ones which cost £89, £90, £120 and I have 2 high backed boosters for £30 each these have all been bought over the last 10 years.

QUOTE]

You may want to check that your car seats meet the current necessary EU standards - I found a britax website that lists the numbers on the seats that are still allowed to be used - I checked my 3 seats as they are all between 6 -8 years old and found that one of them annoyingly the one that is only 6 years old, doesn't meet current standards - so I am in the process of trying to find another one slim enough to fit 3 seats across the back of my car. Quite annoyed as a parent recently offered me a Britax seat and I told her that I'm not allowed to have 2nd hand seats and she gave it to someone else.

http://www.britax.co.uk/safety-centr...ns/regulations

Child Safety Standard – ECE label
All car seats must display an ECE R44/04 certification label to indicate they comply with standard safety requirement.

Year after year, our child car seats exceed the European Test Standard for Child Restraints ECE R 44 introduced in 1982. The constantly upgraded requirements of the standard clearly show the change which has taken place in child safety.

From April 2008, all child car seats that were manufactured before 1995 and approved to the ECE R Standard Regulations 44/01 and 44/02 are no longer legal and must not be used.

All BRITAX child car seats are tested and approved to the current Child
Safety Standard ECE R 44/04, shown by the first two numbers on the approval number on the orange approval label (ECE-label).

Explanation of the ECE-label

shows for which category the child seat has been approved
approved for weight
"Y" shows that this child seat has a 5-point harness system with crotch strap
European Approval indicator
indication for country in which the approval was obtained (1=Germany, 2=France, 3=Italy, 4=the Netherlands etc.)
Approval number. The first two numbers show to which version ECE R 44 the child seat has been approved (in this case ECE R 44/04)
current number

Mine are fine I do check regularly. i of them is a Britax 123 Evolva and it is for use from 9mth to 12 years so I would hope it would have a life of at least 12yrs as long as it is not dropped or in an accident. The two high backed boosters are under 3 years old. I regularly check the other two older Britax seats and they are fine now but I am planning to change them over the next couple of years.

[Simona]

Mine are not more than 30% unless there is a good reason because I budget so I don't go over that %.

What we get back for gas and Electric is exactly the same as 20 years ago a % so it is now more because the cost of utilities has gone up. We claim up to 33% of the increased bills. Same with Council Tax mine is now 10% of £146 a month instead of the £70 a month 20 years ago, so I am off setting £1.46 a month instead of 70p.

That is what I meant...we get exactly the same 'percentage' as 20 or more years ago...a little increase...say to 20%... would help as an incentive
Take water...in my case 10% of the monthly bill is £3.91 but if I had a water meter that would be insufficient because children use lots of water during the day while none would be used if I went out to work at 8am and returned 6pm.
Same goes for heating and lighting...no usage if I went out to work

Children make redecorating necessary more often than if we did not have them...it is costly but not properly rewarded
Same with Wear and Tear...the wearing out is far more than the 10% we can claim...

For those who mind on non domestic premises all their expenses would be claimed...
if we want to attract more cms we need to reward them better and I would start with reviewing our tax free allowances....sorry but the govt cannot expect us to subsidise education and not take care of us some way or another.

I want to see MPs claims being reduced to our pitiful levels having seen the thousands of £££ they claim for their 2nd homes...I deviate I know but I am getting fed up with us giving it all and getting little back

[rickysmiths]

like Hectors House said, also I was under the impression that it was good practice to replace every 3 years because of aging materials, stress on padding and the endurance of the polystyrene in the seats and also the plastics can age and become brittle over time, being in very hot and very cold cars. Sorry to deliver an expensive post.

That is a complete myth driven by American standards not European ones.

How could a company market a seat that is suitable for 9mths to 5-6 yrs or like the Evolva 123 which is for 9mths to 12 yrs if a parents couldn't reasonably expect to keep the seat that long? Would that not be false description?

[rickysmiths]

Some costs are not proportionate to the number of children actually on roll because they will be incurred even if we have one child in our care ...they are part of direct or indirect expenses

Sorry but that is true...
Training will be an expense whether we have 10 children or just the one
The same goes for printing Ofsted factsheets...insurance, m'ship, broadband, use of computer and much more

That is right but apart from First Aid and Child protection no courses are compulsory so maybe if you are way down on numbers for a period you reduce the number of courses you do? That was what I had to do when my numbers suddenly went down, I had to be selective and do less for a while.

I worked out the basic costs that you would have to pay to maintain your registration and they were up to £4 pw depending on who you have your PLI with. If you have one child for 40 hours a week that is less than a £1 per day very little if you think what you would be paid for 40 hours

[Koala]

That is a complete myth driven by American standards not European ones.

How could a company market a seat that is suitable for 9mths to 5-6 yrs or like the Evolva 123 which is for 9mths to 12 yrs if a parents couldn't reasonably expect to keep the seat that long? Would that not be false description?

I see where you are coming from but I don't think you can expect a car seat to last for 12 years for example just because it is suitable for 9m to 12 years age range - surely this is just reference to the approx suitability of the seat for the child size?

From my experience child car seats do get worn from the child (picky fingers at the polystyrene ) little toilet accidents and general climate stress from being at very hot and very cold temperatures in the car - so I would not think it unreasonable to replace car seats periodically but I suppose this can be subject to personal preference (I know I would want my child to have a fresh car seat periodically).

You say it is a complete myth, well I can't dispute this nor can I condone it as I do not have any hard evidence to counteract your statement, however, imo and from experience I do not think a child care seat would be suitable to be used for 12 years just because that is the age range it fits and No I don't think it's false description (it may well be suitable for 9m - 12yr) but I think maybe!? you have interpreted the description incorrectly . to mean that it will last for 12 years

[Koala]

That is right but apart from First Aid and Child protection no courses are compulsory so maybe if you are way down on numbers for a period you reduce the number of courses you do? That was what I had to do when my numbers suddenly went down, I had to be selective and do less for a while.

I worked out the basic costs that you would have to pay to maintain your registration and they were up to £4 pw depending on who you have your PLI with. If you have one child for 40 hours a week that is less than a £1 per day very little if you think what you would be paid for 40 hours

I admire your budgeting, however, I would not be able to implement it and provide what I do, personally I would not consciously be able to skimp on training or anything for that matter and this is probably why my expenses are higher than yours. Please don't think I am judging what is BEST, I am just highlighting how different we all work. I don't know how you can sustain a childcare environment for £4 pw - I spend that on toilet roll and tissues in just one week . Never mind calculating all the rest.

I do think I could take a leaf out of your book about 'cutting my cloth accordingly' but like the economy - I am always hoping for better!!!

[Simona]

We differ so much in opinion but I can see all points of view...expenses is another area we have different opinions and I am sure that some one will say ...we are all so different!!!! Yes we are
But at what point will all CMs have something in common??

There is also a difference between expenses and our free allowances which have not been well discussed

As some of the costs we incur are actually the same for all of us across the country...why don't we present some facts and figures now rather than individual ways of doing things???

[Tazmin68]

Yes some training is mandatory with regards to ofsted. However the LA may put additional requirements in my case because I look after children under childcare schemes through children's centres and social services I have extra costs for example both of our safeguarding courses have to be updated every two years as well as food hygiene and all the CRBs / DBS have to be redone every three years also. It is expected that we take advantage of any new training if it is offered if mandatory or not.

[mummyMia]

I look after two children, one is a fulltimer and the other does 25 hours a week. After subtracting all my expenses, tax, NI and taking into account unpaid holiday I am left with an income of about £1100/month. I have two children of my own, one is school aged and the other is under 5. If I worked fulltime I would have to pay about £1500/month in childcare during the school term and even more during the school holidays. So using an online salary calculator, that means I would need to earn £32 000 a year to have the same take home pay as I currently do, actually it would have to be a bit more as I have not taken into account the higher childcare costs during school holidays. As dh has a good income we are not eligible for any tax credits. I suppose childcare vouchers would make a slight saving. So although my hourly rate is low I am still managing to earn the equivalent of a decent salary and I get to be at home with my children.

[rickysmiths]

I see where you are coming from but I don't think you can expect a car seat to last for 12 years for example just because it is suitable for 9m to 12 years age range - surely this is just reference to the approx suitability of the seat for the child size?

From my experience child car seats do get worn from the child (picky fingers at the polystyrene ) little toilet accidents and general climate stress from being at very hot and very cold temperatures in the car - so I would not think it unreasonable to replace car seats periodically but I suppose this can be subject to personal preference (I know I would want my child to have a fresh car seat periodically).

You say it is a complete myth, well I can't dispute this nor can I condone it as I do not have any hard evidence to counteract your statement, however, imo and from experience I do not think a child care seat would be suitable to be used for 12 years just because that is the age range it fits and No I don't think it's false description (it may well be suitable for 9m - 12yr) but I think maybe!? you have interpreted the description incorrectly . to mean that it will last for 12 years

Maybe 12 years would be a long time for a cm. However if a parent is investing in a car seat the fact that it can be used fro 9mth to approx 12yrs make be a deciding factor in its purchase as they potentially need only buy one seat. You can usually get replacement covers for car seats so it is easy to renew them if they get worn. I wash my car seat covers regularly or if needed. I have never had a problem with picky fingers on the seats in all my 20 years with my own or any minded children.

[rickysmiths]

I admire your budgeting, however, I would not be able to implement it and provide what I do, personally I would not consciously be able to skimp on training or anything for that matter and this is probably why my expenses are higher than yours. Please don't think I am judging what is BEST, I am just highlighting how different we all work. I don't know how you can sustain a childcare environment for £4 pw - I spend that on toilet roll and tissues in just one week . Never mind calculating all the rest.

I do think I could take a leaf out of your book about 'cutting my cloth accordingly' but like the economy - I am always hoping for better!!!

That was what it would cost if there were no children on the role, just to maintain registration. You may spend £4 per week on tissues and loo roll but how many children have used that? It is a tiny amount surely compared to the income from the children who use it?

I take no offence and I am not trying to say one way is better than another. I don't skimp on training even in the low times but if there is something that is put on that I fancy doing rather than need to do I wouldn't do it if times were very lean. I provide every thing apart from nappies. I go out all the time but to places that are free apart from maybe a small parking fee and the cost of the petrol, in lean times I might take a picnic whereas in better times I might buy lunch out.

I guess I approach things the same way I do with the family when we have a lean period. I just cut back a little and watch what I am doing. I have always watched my money because it is no good working for little or nothing and it is easy to get carried away buying resources, I love shopping but I have a huge amount of stuff already so again in lean times I question harder whether I really need the new thing I like.

[k-tots]

I look after two children, one is a fulltimer and the other does 25 hours a week. After subtracting all my expenses, tax, NI and taking into account unpaid holiday I am left with an income of about £1100/month. I have two children of my own, one is school aged and the other is under 5. If I worked fulltime I would have to pay about £1500/month in childcare during the school term and even more during the school holidays. So using an online salary calculator, that means I would need to earn £32 000 a year to have the same take home pay as I currently do, actually it would have to be a bit more as I have not taken into account the higher childcare costs during school holidays. As dh has a good income we are not eligible for any tax credits. I suppose childcare vouchers would make a slight saving. So although my hourly rate is low I am still managing to earn the equivalent of a decent salary and I get to be at home with my children.

Im the same.......we have decided to get the vouchers and send ds to preschool two mornings a week and it is working well for us....but if I had to go out to work....I would be be working for nothing and then still have to find more money x

[bunyip]

Worth bearing in mind that, working from home and the odd way in which HMRC allow CMs to calculate certain expenses tend to give a slightly skewed picture of them.

One small example: I can claim for heating and lighting while mindees are here, even though I'd still be using the heating and lighting if the mindees were not here and it was just me and the vicar's wife running around naked (well, maybe not the lighting, but I'd maybe turn the heating up a notch. )

So, given that we're getting tax relief on some items that we'd pay for anyway, our profits can look smaller on paper than the money we actually have available to spend.

If anyone has ever employed an accountant, they've probably been struck by the amount of 'expenses' they managed to find from absolutely nowhere. My first full time job as a wet-behind the-ears Tebbit's cyclist was as an office minion at an accountants. I was stunned by the number of clients who could maintain the most fantastic lifestyles on businesses that never made a p3nny - nor paid a p3nny in tax, naturally.

Edited, cos the autocorrect won't let me use the old name for a 1p coin. So, who was the mysterious P3nny who objected to her name being used, and why the guilty conscience? I wonders...................................