Do you recieve vouchers from computershare?

[candy cat]

Mine set s reminder on phone.....not difficult to do is it!!!
May be phone her and be honest say I have bills to pay and need you to pay me ....bet you are annoyed :0(

[Simona]

Whilst I sympathise with this, do please take care.

If we agree to accept vouchers as payment, the client is only responsible for ensuring their vouchers reach our voucher account by the agreed payment date. How long it takes our bank (which is acting as our "agent" - not the client's) to process the payment from the voucher company is not the client's problem.

I am not sure about this Bunyip...
if parents have for some reason not paid the CVs on time one month and want to pay us via another method then that is perfectly acceptable....all it means is that they have an extra lot of vouchers in their account to be used in future?...funnily enough that situation happened to me recently and the parent paid me 2 lots of CVs the following time

Does this require extra care??

You say that the bank is the 'agent'...in the employer, CVs company and bank triangle I believe the 'agent' is the CVs company due to the fact they are the ones getting paid to act on behalf of the parents... hold the money, transfer it at parents request to us and getting a fee for doing so too!

at least this is how I know it has worked for years... if it has changed I stand corrected!
BAC transfers used to take a long time, however, this transaction can also show in our accounts within minutes of being authorized as the system has improved dramatically!

again it is the CVs company that holds the money for at least a couple of days before releasing to the bank....that is why I said before it will be fun to find out how the new free childcare tax scheme will woprk out when it comes out in 2015.

[bunyip]

The CM's bank is definitely the CM's agent. The CV company is a kind of mutual agent for both the CM and the client, cos both have their respective accounts with the CV company.

And it's the banks' processes which are responsible for the delay between the CV company authorising the transfer and it being credited to the CM's bank account. For instance, in this day and age there is still no satisfactory reason as to why all the banks refuse to switch to a system which allows their computers to run transfer data over weekends and bank holidays. (I'm reliably informed they run these transactions using huge spools of tapes which are moved around the City by motorcycle courier around close of business on Monday-Fridays. )

As long as the money eventually reaches our bank account, then we're rather obliged to accept the date of settlement (ie. accept we've "been paid") as being the date on which the CV's arrived in our CV account. It's not that dissimilar from accepting a cheque. So long as the cheque doesn't 'bounce' then the recipient has to accept they've been paid from the moment they accept the cheque, not wait for it to clear.

[Minstrel]

This is all kind of irreverent to my question since the CV email I received to say the vouchers had been deposited was dated 3rd January. My invoice asks for my payment 1st January so either way it's late. Not quite sure why you've deviated to talk about my 'agent'. Late is ****** late.

[Simona]

This is all kind of irreverent to my question since the CV email I received to say the vouchers had been deposited was dated 3rd January. My invoice asks for my payment 1st January so either way it's late. Not quite sure why you've deviated to talk about my 'agent'. Late is ****** late.

I think that we all agree with you that parents must pay on time...like you I have 1st as deadline and it is a bit annoying if that is not complied with

We have deviated but also widened the discussion which may be useful for those new to the vouchers system but still your point is very relevant...maybe we should make a resolution to get this issue sorted in the new year and get tougher.
Hope it gets sorted for you soon

[bunyip]

This is all kind of irreverent to my question since the CV email I received to say the vouchers had been deposited was dated 3rd January. My invoice asks for my payment 1st January so either way it's late. Not quite sure why you've deviated to talk about my 'agent'. Late is ****** late.

I understand your frustration but, to be fair, you did get a direct answer to your original question from me and other members. I agree with Simona that the subsequent debate on this thread is both legitimate and relevant to the subject.

With all due respect, having had such direct answers you're at liberty to ignore future discussion or ask the moderators to close the thread if the wider subject is of no interest.

I repeat: I understand your frustration. I don't know what your contract says. But I'm afraid the parent would be in a good position to dispute any assertion that a payment is "late" if you've agreed to accept vouchers, and the correct sum of vouchers is credited to you voucher account on or by the due date. The parent is not responsible for how long it takes for that sum to appear as available funds in your bank account.

This is not unlike the clearing of cheques. In October 2012 I paid my National Insurance bill by cheque at the local Post Office. Due to a banking c0ck-up, HMRC didn't get the cleared funds until nearly a year later. Happily for me, HMRC could not claim I had paid "late" even though they didn't get the actual funds in their account for so long: because I had paid, no matter how long it took HMRC's bank to get their backsides in gear.

Tbh, I'm not sure it would be useful to specify in our contracts that fees don't count as 'paid' until such times as the funds are in our bank accounts - cos I think such terms would be regarded as unreasonable (or "unconscionable" from a legal standpoint.) I think all you could do is set an earlier payment date at your next contract review.

[k1rstie]

One of my parents who is with RG vouchers, was really surprised and shocked, when I mentioned to her that the money did not usually arrive in my account until about the 5th or 6th of a normal month. She had done whatever it was she needed to do ages before.

I rarely get cheques, and usually put them in the post (only small amounts), usually guessing the address ( ie, my bank, the high street, my town). I mentally think the vouchers are like cheques!

[Simona]

I understand your frustration but, to be fair, you did get a direct answer to your original question from me and other members. I agree with Simona that the subsequent debate on this thread is both legitimate and relevant to the subject.

With all due respect, having had such direct answers you're at liberty to ignore future discussion or ask the moderators to close the thread if the wider subject is of no interest.

I repeat: I understand your frustration. I don't know what your contract says. But I'm afraid the parent would be in a good position to dispute any assertion that a payment is "late" if you've agreed to accept vouchers, and the correct sum of vouchers is credited to you voucher account on or by the due date. The parent is not responsible for how long it takes for that sum to appear as available funds in your bank account.

This is not unlike the clearing of cheques. In October 2012 I paid my National Insurance bill by cheque at the local Post Office. Due to a banking c0ck-up, HMRC didn't get the cleared funds until nearly a year later. Happily for me, HMRC could not claim I had paid "late" even though they didn't get the actual funds in their account for so long: because I had paid, no matter how long it took HMRC's bank to get their backsides in gear.

Tbh, I'm not sure it would be useful to specify in our contracts that fees don't count as 'paid' until such times as the funds are in our bank accounts - cos I think such terms would be regarded as unreasonable (or "unconscionable" from a legal standpoint.) I think all you could do is set an earlier payment date at your next contract review.

Good point Bunyip...how many contracts state that fees should 'REACH' our account by a certain date rather than fees are due on a certain date...do you see what I mean?

To be sure to get fees 'cleared' by a certain date we need to specify that fees must be in our account by the '1st of the month' as an example
I hope I haven't confused the issue further but it is a very valid point.

[Minstrel]

I understand your frustration but, to be fair, you did get a direct answer to your original question from me and other members. I agree with Simona that the subsequent debate on this thread is both legitimate and relevant to the subject. With all due respect, having had such direct answers you're at liberty to ignore future discussion or ask the moderators to close the thread if the wider subject is of no interest. I repeat: I understand your frustration. I don't know what your contract says. But I'm afraid the parent would be in a good position to dispute any assertion that a payment is "late" if you've agreed to accept vouchers, and the correct sum of vouchers is credited to you voucher account on or by the due date. The parent is not responsible for how long it takes for that sum to appear as available funds in your bank account. This is not unlike the clearing of cheques. In October 2012 I paid my National Insurance bill by cheque at the local Post Office. Due to a banking c0ck-up, HMRC didn't get the cleared funds until nearly a year later. Happily for me, HMRC could not claim I had paid "late" even though they didn't get the actual funds in their account for so long: because I had paid, no matter how long it took HMRC's bank to get their backsides in gear. Tbh, I'm not sure it would be useful to specify in our contracts that fees don't count as 'paid' until such times as the funds are in our bank accounts - cos I think such terms would be regarded as unreasonable (or "unconscionable" from a legal standpoint.) I think all you could do is set an earlier payment date at your next contract review.

May I say I find you extremely rude.

And patronising.

And condescending.

[vickylou]

On another note, my parents have automatic release of funds on 1st of each month. It is now the 5th have still received no email and no funds to date! This is not the parents fault this is Christmas! !!! And this may be what has happened here! I banked a cheque on the 27th Dec and didnt receive funds till the 4th!!! At this time of year we just have to expect payments to be late! If you believe she personally didn't make payment till late then next month early morning of the 1st text her to remind her! As annoying as it is some parent's just forget when they are not attending in holidays! I'm not saying it's right but these are probably also the parents who get moaned about for not sending right clothes, wipes etc!!! If I haven't received payment by end of day expected I text them and tell them it's not been received!

[bunyip]

May I say I find you extremely rude.

And patronising.

And condescending.

You certainly may.

You are completely entitled to your opinion and i would defend to the hilt your right to express it. But I don't understand why (post #24) you imply that members should not have the right to express opinions on the general subject of CVs and late payments: "This is all kind of irreverent [sic] to my question.." I understand you were "sounding off" but that doesn't mean other members can't have their say on an important issue.

For myself, I try to reserve my comments to the content of members' posts, opinions and actions - rather than judging the entire character of people I've never met.

I confess that I have rather compressed my assessment of the general issue, to keep my posts a little shorter than otherwise (I'm the first to admit that I'm not very good at brevity.) As a result, I realise I've mixed up your original question with a response to the situation described in a subsequent post. This was probably unwise of me. If you feel this has resulted in a misrepresentation of your situation, then for that I apologise.

I would reiterate my expressions of sympathy for your situation. I've answered the factual question you raised about automatic Computershare payments. I've offered additional advice in the hope of giving some ideas of how to make things work better in future. Maybe that doesn't count for anything. It can be very hard to tell if members are looking for advice or whether they just want agreement, and that anything further will be seen as condescension.

There are so many areas of childcare on which I know so little (like getting a baby-grow the right way up ) that I'm always glad to read any advice and ideas from other members. And I'm grateful they take the time and trouble to have their input.

It's very easy in a CM circle or on a forum to say only the 'nice' things that people want to hear. So, eg, I could've said (on the general issue) that CVs don't count as "paid" until they show in our bank accounts: a popular misconception that would have people liking me for the opinion. No - I am not going to say something I believe to be wrong, just in order to be popular. Such things can have legal implications or damage CM-client relationships, and I flatly refuse to give fellow-CMs 'enough rope to hang themselves.'

[Minstrel]

I may or may not have had a drink yesterday which may or may not have impaired my rational thought. I absolutely do not think that threads cannot move on and discuss further issues around the same subject but in this instance I think you read a different problem and assumed my issues were the same as the subsequent poster.

I still think I'm right that if the vouchers are not submitted until the 2nd (I received the email notification on the 3rd) then this is a late payment. I have accepted cheques in the past and been happy to mark it as paid when I have the cheque in my hand but I do think this is different.

Hey ho we'll agree to disagree and I will leave it at that now for my contribution on this thread.

[AliceK]

Just want to say that on my invoices I have a notice which says the date I expect "cleared funds" and also a note reminding parents that childcare vouchers take 3 working days to reach my bank account. These "notes" save any confusion. If there are bank holidays etc I will put on each invoice the latest date to make childcare voucher payments in order for the monies to reach me on time. That and a line about charging for late payments too.

I have learnt that some parents need everything spelling out to them.
I've got to say though that even though all my parents use vouchers for at least part of their payment and in total use 4 different voucher providers, even over the Christmas period not one was late in reaching me. Really there is NO excuse.

xxxxx

[bunyip]

I may or may not have had a drink yesterday which may or may not have impaired my rational thought. I absolutely do not think that threads cannot move on and discuss further issues around the same subject but in this instance I think you read a different problem and assumed my issues were the same as the subsequent poster.

I still think I'm right that if the vouchers are not submitted until the 2nd (I received the email notification on the 3rd) then this is a late payment. I have accepted cheques in the past and been happy to mark it as paid when I have the cheque in my hand but I do think this is different.

Hey ho we'll agree to disagree and I will leave it at that now for my contribution on this thread.

To clarify,

as your CVs were due on the 30th, but didn't get transferred until the 2nd, then yes - I absolutely agree that was a late payment and parents should be made aware of the consequences of mucking you around this way: it's simply not on.

The other contributor (post #15) had a different scenario, whereby the client appears to have sent the vouchers when s/he got his/her salary on the ".....last Thursday of each month and only did the vouchers then, but then they didn't clear til 3rd or 4th of the month." This is a different matter entirely, which I would not regard as a "late" payment.

I seem to have caused confusion by winding a general discussion about CVs and 'late payments' around these 2 entirely separate cases. For this I apologise.