Very naughty girl!!
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  1. #21
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    Thanks Tazmin

    What would you suggest we put in place for our two y o? The pushing is our immediate concern and the thinking chair does not seem to be working...
    Also she won't engage with anything other than painting her hands. She wants to just run up and down and climb on things and jump off.

    My feeling is we should offer her very structured activities but I can't spare a person to work one to one most of the day.

    I hear myself saying no to her nearly all day and think what a lousy to she must be having ...
    'It's never too late to have a happy childhood' ( Tom Robinson)

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadavi View Post
    Thanks Tazmin

    What would you suggest we put in place for our two y o? The pushing is our immediate concern and the thinking chair does not seem to be working...
    Also she won't engage with anything other than painting her hands. She wants to just run up and down and climb on things and jump off.

    My feeling is we should offer her very structured activities but I can't spare a person to work one to one most of the day.

    I hear myself saying no to her nearly all day and think what a lousy to she must be having ...
    Maybe its because Im only reading what you are saying and don't actually know the child but im just reading about a spirited child.

    You say the time out child is not working well I think it is to her. As you have said someone sits with her and talks about what has happened I think this child has learnt that that if she pushes another child she gets someones undivided attention. Doesn't matter that its not positive.

    You say you think she needs structured activites but she just wants to run up and down and climb things how often does she get to this?

    I know that you don't mean to but there has been two threads about this child and there hasn't been one positive about her

    The problem with reading up on the condition which you probably know with you teaching children of aspergers is that a lot of people/children will have aspects of them but not have adhd etc.

    Its hard to reply because as I said further up without ever seeing the child Im reading about its just a spirited child to me. Very similar to a child at toddler group. She will push other children over repeatly but since I told mum not to make a big issue of her but the victim and just to sit her daughter next to her without a word the pushing is decreasing because the other child is receiving the attention not her.
    When someone tells you nothing is impossible, tell them to go slam a revolving door

  3. #23
    Simona Guest

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    I agree with many points Fussy Elmo said in her reply especially the reference to this child being spirited and all the negativity around the strategies for guiding her behaviour...I would also point out she is not even 2...one of the most challenging phases in a child's life and we now see her as 'naughty'...I don't think she is

    I would suggest that you and mum draw up some common strategies to 'reinforce' positive behaviour and 'ignore' the negative...this is a common worry at that age and you can easily research it and apply to her as she is unique
    There are also many other things you could try but time out is not, in my view, ideal in a toddler....how can she be spoken to if her language and communication are about to undergo a huge leap in development...she may not be able to express her view or tell you why she behaves in that way because her language is probably not fluent enough as yet
    Time out is for 'reflection' on consequences ...I doubt this child is at that stage

    She is being punished but I feel you could re-channel her energy in an effective and positive way...keep observing her, give her challenging activities to stretch her learning, praise her good behaviour and ignore the rest

    let us know how you get on.

    Positive Guidance Techniques | Education.com

  4. #24
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    Don't take me out of the picture poster[1].pdf

    This is a copy of a poster I was given on a Behaviour & positive relationship course recently - sometimes it is us and our settings which need to change to fully meet the needs of the child.

    Hope the ideas on here help everyone to think carefully about combining "A unique child" and "Enabling Environments"

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  6. #25
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    Thanks

    Like I said before I don't believe in naughty (or negative sanctions either) and used the word on the title to get attention - sorry.
    I am very liberal and a non disciplinarian normally and our setting is very free flow and not particularly structured.

    We could try making a fuss of the victim of the pushing Fussy Elmo - good idea. We can't leave her in the group after she has pushed as the others wont feel protected (they are already very scared) so like I said there has to be some temporary withdrawal and we have to address the behaviour - it is too disruptive to ignore.

    I did a thread on the nurtured heart approach a few years back which is exactly as you say - excessive praise and ignoring the negative. (Little boy who was being hit at home by mum and was hurting people here including my guinea pigs - you may remember?) we have been doing that for a few months. The result was she has become more affectionate to mum but this unwanted behaviour is unchanged.

    I agree I have been talking about the negative which makes me sad but then this forum is for helping each other with knotty difficult problems isn't it?

    I always think (from my teacher's days) if you are finding a child hard work and not enjoying her at all then she is feeling exactly the same, probably worse. Hardly ideal. But here we are , she is in my setting and I am committed to finding out what is in her best interests.

    I can see we are not meeting her needs as she spends most of her time hanging up and down our long corridor not engaging with anything - just sucking her thumb. She does not appear unhappy but she is clearly not happy.

    Short of giving her more physical challenges its hard to know where to go. She has been coming here since 16 weeks so is completely settled.
    I will try and open that poster - thanks.

    Apologies for keeping going on. I have no one to talk to about these things and the forum is my lifeline
    'It's never too late to have a happy childhood' ( Tom Robinson)

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  8. #26
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadavi View Post
    Thanks

    Like I said before I don't believe in naughty (or negative sanctions either) and used the word on the title to get attention - sorry.
    I am very liberal and a non disciplinarian normally and our setting is very free flow and not particularly structured.

    We could try making a fuss of the victim of the pushing Fussy Elmo - good idea. We can't leave her in the group after she has pushed as the others wont feel protected (they are already very scared) so like I said there has to be some temporary withdrawal and we have to address the behaviour - it is too disruptive to ignore.

    I did a thread on the nurtured heart approach a few years back which is exactly as you say - excessive praise and ignoring the negative. (Little boy who was being hit at home by mum and was hurting people here including my guinea pigs - you may remember?) we have been doing that for a few months. The result was she has become more affectionate to mum but this unwanted behaviour is unchanged.

    I agree I have been talking about the negative which makes me sad but then this forum is for helping each other with knotty difficult problems isn't it?

    I always think (from my teacher's days) if you are finding a child hard work and not enjoying her at all then she is feeling exactly the same, probably worse. Hardly ideal. But here we are , she is in my setting and I am committed to finding out what is in her best interests.

    I can see we are not meeting her needs as she spends most of her time hanging up and down our long corridor not engaging with anything - just sucking her thumb. She does not appear unhappy but she is clearly not happy.

    Short of giving her more physical challenges its hard to know where to go. She has been coming here since 16 weeks so is completely settled.
    I will try and open that poster - thanks.

    Apologies for keeping going on. I have no one to talk to about these things and the forum is my lifeline
    Jadavi...you have posted this in 2 threads to get attention...I am not convinced, my view of course, using the word 'naughty' has attracted the right attention or provided you with an answer

    It is obvious to me that you need help and professional support on this matter as the topic you are dealing with is complex and requires professional input

    There is plenty you can read about and then I would suggest you refer the child to the HV, if necessary, but before you do that make sure you have extensive observations on her behaviour and please please stop labelling her naughty or trying to guess what her condition could be.

  9. #27
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    I have a little girl that sounds just like this. She likes to climb, run, doesnt listen, has speech problems etc. She is nearing 3 now and has changed a lot. Her speech has come on and she has calmed down a lot. She engages with the other children and with activities. Maybe accommodate her physical preferences (within reason! - we used to clear the room as much as possible, open doors to access all rooms, use soft play, pushchairs, shopping trolleys etc) Hopefully she will change as she matures.

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  11. #28
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    Yes I am doing a lot more physical things with that helps.
    I started another thread on specific possible conditions ie ADHD
    'It's never too late to have a happy childhood' ( Tom Robinson)

  12. #29
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    Sorry that sent too soon.

    Sorry if the word naughty offended - I have already apologised here but actually a lot of people including her parents do call her that when she pushes people. (Our church Playgroup too)

    I am not using any of these labels to the parents and am only discussing what they mean here on the forum which is a safe space for us and i see no reason not to air ideas among friends here. Don't answer the thread if it irritates you!

    I have no intention of worrying the parents more, especially as there is nowhere to go with this until she is three anyway. Most of my families either say that they don't have a health visitor or don't rate them highly.

    Having had her again today and organised my time so I could do an hour one to one with her, i realise she can maintain attention somewhat longer when with an engaged adult than when on her own. I think she is scared off by the others reaction to her and chooses to distance herself often. We are targeting socialising support with her and spent a long time this afternoon running up and down the setting with her and all the other children holding our hands so she couldn't hurt them. They were able to all laugh together which was lovely for her.
    'It's never too late to have a happy childhood' ( Tom Robinson)

  13. #30
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    Sorry if the word naughty offended - I have already apologised here but actually a lot of people including her parents do call her that when she pushes people. (Our church Playgroup too)

    I am not using any of these labels to the parents and am only discussing what they mean here on the forum which is a safe space for us and i see no reason not to air ideas among friends here. Don't answer the thread if it irritates you!


    Just because people call her that it doesn't make it right.

    If we are to be seen as a professional person alongside other childcare professionals we have to always express ourselves using the best words. This forum is also viewed by our LA and other professionals who form opinions about childminders.

    Calling a child naughty is not acceptable ( I know I have said this before!) especially so when it is linked with possible special educational needs.... Your apologies are always followed by a reason which, in my experience, means that you think you are ok to say it.

    Even amongst friends ..... There isn't one set of acceptable words that we wouldn't use when discussing children with special needs with other professionals.
    I thought this forum was really good for discussing things through, reflecting on the threads and moving forward in our practise.

  14. #31
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    Thanks for the reminder Flora Dora

    To clarify - I was explaining why i used the term rather than justifying using it. A bit like reverse psychology we see so often in adverts. I can see though, that this forum is not the place for that.

    I take your point though and I value the points you made earlier.
    'It's never too late to have a happy childhood' ( Tom Robinson)

  15. #32
    Simona Guest

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    Jadavi...please lets move on from this
    I see you have made progress today and that is truly good news

    I was not offended or irritated but for those who know me well I have always detested 'labelling' children: SEN, EAL, Down, autistic, Asperger, ADHD etc etc.
    I feel so strongly I actually have it in my behaviour management policy...naughty is not used in my setting.
    I know that parents do call their children naughty but it is not necessary and neither are all the labels we put so easily on children when we need to describe 'additional needs' or certain disabilities or learning difficulties

    Labels stick, they hurt and lower children's 'self esteem'
    The funny thing about this someone from a call centre recently was trying to explain something to me and it was not really that clear at all...the person told me 'excuse me but you are EAL'...well I was not pleased!!
    Last edited by Simona; 03-12-2013 at 07:03 PM.

  16. #33
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    Very happy to move on.,.

    This thread actually has been really helpful to me and it has - imo - been useful for people to be reminded that labels can be damaging and self fulfilling even though that was so not my intention
    'It's never too late to have a happy childhood' ( Tom Robinson)

 

 
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