How do I tell another childminder they are wrong

[Straws]

Hi all,

I know another childminder who is looking after 5 sometimes six EYFS children 2-3 days a week, the childminder says because she has a level 3 she is able to have more children and can do her own variations.... I think/know she has misunderstood the EYFS numbers ... I know that she cant take on new business and can only increase numbers in exceptional circumstances... she is due an inspection any time now .... how can I inform her tactfully that she is over her numbers... I have hinted many times that I think she is wrong... I would hate to see her fail an inspection. Thanks Straws

[jackie 7]

Download the information from the ofsted site. There is one about numbers. Some people won't be told. Also tell her to ask on here. We will all tell her what is right.

[funemnx]

Sometimes you have to let people make mistakes because they aren't open to what you're saying. Maybe you should point here to the forum...

[Straws]

She reckons she has checked it out hence why she took another baby on last week

[hectors house]

I would just print off Sarah707's advice on continuity of care which she wrote after asking Ofsted specific questions and give it to your friend. After a random phone conversation with someone I met on a childminding course, where she said she sometimes looked after 5 children, I realised that she also had misunderstood the rule on variations - I pointed her in the right direction and she gave notice to one child and had to swap another one to a different day - she had honestly misunderstood and had only read the part that said we could have 6 children under 8, she was Outstanding so had a lot to lose if Ofsted had done an inspection.

[AliceK]

She reckons she has checked it out hence why she took another baby on last week

Sometimes if you have tried to tell someone and they are not listening and insist they are still right then they need to find out for themselves and afraid to say if she is due an inspection soon that's how she will find out she is in the wrong. You can't help some people.

xxxx

[bunyip]

I think you have to make the decision whether to tell her or not, based on the likely consequences, and have an 'end game' in mind.

If this is really important to you, can you live with yourself better by telling her or by dropping the matter? Will you feel bad about keeping quiet? What if you tell her straight and she ignores you? Will you report her to Ofsted? What if someone else reports her to Ofsted? Why are you concerned ? Is it the childrens' welfare/the potential consequences for the other CM/the fact that she's taking on clients who could've been yours?

Decide to tell her straight or to say nothing. I think that 'dropping hints' is the result of not having made a proper decision about it - and I can sympathise with why you might feel so uncertain/undecided in this matter.

If you are going to say something, then I think Jackie's suggestion of showing her the rules in black&white is an excellent idea.

[clairer]

Send her an Ofsted link or give her some paperwork and just say you are worried for her with her inspection coming up, be honest.

[Straws]

I think you have to make the decision whether to tell her or not, based on the likely consequences, and have an 'end game' in mind.

If this is really important to you, can you live with yourself better by telling her or by dropping the matter? Will you feel bad about keeping quiet? What if you tell her straight and she ignores you? Will you report her to Ofsted? What if someone else reports her to Ofsted? Why are you concerned ? Is it the childrens' welfare/the potential consequences for the other CM/the fact that she's taking on clients who could've been yours?

Decide to tell her straight or to say nothing. I think that 'dropping hints' is the result of not having made a proper decision about it - and I can sympathise with why you might feel so uncertain/undecided in this matter.

If you are going to say something, then I think Jackie's suggestion of showing her the rules in black&white is an excellent idea.

Its the potential consequences I am concerned for... example, a child has an accident will the insurance be valid etc... she is in her 60's ( not that age matters ) and I worry she wont be able to cope with the numbers and will become exhausted, she has worked hard the last few months to prepare for her Ofsted and has spent a considerable amount on resources and a large amount of her income goes back into the business, this is why I think she is not doing it intentionally she must genuinely believe she can increase her numbers... as for taking clients she lives the other side of the city so that's not an issue for me at all....I wouldn't report to Ofsted .. I genuinely don't want her to fail on everything she has worked hard for. Thanks Straws

[bunyip]

Its the potential consequences I am concerned for... example, a child has an accident will the insurance be valid etc... she is in her 60's ( not that age matters ) and I worry she wont be able to cope with the numbers and will become exhausted, she has worked hard the last few months to prepare for her Ofsted and has spent a considerable amount on resources and a large amount of her income goes back into the business, this is why I think she is not doing it intentionally she must genuinely believe she can increase her numbers... as for taking clients she lives the other side of the city so that's not an issue for me at all....I wouldn't report to Ofsted .. I genuinely don't want her to fail on everything she has worked hard for. Thanks Straws

That being the case, I would tell the CM and show her the documentation to prove your case. You'll have done what you can for her, and you'll have a clear conscience.

Just remember you can tell her for her own good, you can prove it, but you can't make her believe you or make her change if she's determined to go her own sweet way. Nor can you do much about it if someone else reports her to Ofsted and she ends up believing it was you.

I'm afraid I've also come across CMs who are over-minding. Sometimes it's due to genuine misunderstanding of the regulations or some duff information they've picked up from DO's or others. I've also heard some lame excuses about why some CMs think EYFS 2012 doesn't apply to them: like "sick of the EYFS constantly changing" or "if Ofsted want me to follow EYFS then they have to send me a printed copy."

I think you have the best of motives, but that may not achieve anything or it may even backfire. You just have to do what you think is best and be prepared for the possible consequences.

[bindy]

Why don't you ask her to phone Ofsted and ask .( she can just ask the question and not reveal too much) Tell her you are 99 per cent sure she can not have 5 children(100 per cent! ) and you would hate for her to get a low grading. If she chooses not to listen or take your advice, at least you have done your best and can do no more.

[Logan]

Why don't you ask her to phone Ofsted and ask .( she can just ask the question and not reveal too much) Tell her you are 99 per cent sure she can not have 5 children(100 per cent! ) and you would hate for her to get a low grading. If she chooses not to listen or take your advice, at least you have done your best and can do no more.

Ofsted won't answer the question! They'll refer her to the EYFS, which would be ok if she did then look at it.

[bindy]

Ofsted won't answer the question! They'll refer her to the EYFS, which would be ok if she did then look at it.

Goodness me, I must have been lucky with my questioning lol! I ask all kind of questions

[tulip0803]

I am in Wales and a local childminder was overminding but was insisting she had a variation (I had one at the time for one of the siblings that we shared care of) all of a sudden when she got her inspection notice (within 3 months) she went into panic mode and told one family she could no longer look after their children!!!! She knew all along that she was wrong but wanted the money

[bunyip]

Goodness me, I must have been lucky with my questioning lol! I ask all kind of questions

You can occasionally get lucky with Ofsted telephone chickens. It happens when they drop their script* on the floor and have to start thinking cos they can't figure how to pick up a piece of paper.



*Script - sheet of paper with the following text (in large print) "I'm just going to ask you all the security questions that you put into your push-button phone for no appaarent reason .............. Thank you. .................Refer to EYFS. .................. Is there anything else I can not help you with today?

[Simona]

I would say that the EYFS 2012 is very open to individual interpretation and this Cm will have to have done a RA and discussed the matter with parents as well as recording attendance each day...up to her to argue her point with the inspector who will want to see all this recorded.

Many cms have 5 children under 5 in their care...if they had 3 to start with and two families wanted their baby, as a sibling, looked after as well ...that is continuity of care as long as the CM can guarantee proper care and have enough resources/equipment to cater for all needs...what becomes questionable is whether it is for a short time only and what constitute that short time?

Someone correct this if I am wrong but I have read this arguments many times by cms who explain how they justify this increase according to EYFS guidelines.

[Kaybeaa]

Sorry if I'm being thick here (new childminder, forgive me) but when you talk about having 5 children at any one time, are you meaning 5 children in the EYFS, ie not including those of school age? Because I thought the ratios were 6 children under 8, of which only 3 can be eyfs children?

Panicking now that I've misinterpreted it!!

[tulip0803]

Sorry if I'm being thick here (new childminder, forgive me) but when you talk about having 5 children at any one time, are you meaning 5 children in the EYFS, ie not including those of school age? Because I thought the ratios were 6 children under 8, of which only 3 can be eyfs children?

Panicking now that I've misinterpreted it!!

You are right those are the ratios BUT for continuity of care (not new business) you can go over those numbers IF you risk assess, have sufficient equipment and ALL parents agree.

So if you had 3 in EYFS and one of those parents (or you) had a baby you could take baby on with agreement from all parents and have 4 in EYFS. Or if a parent had an appointment, funeral, work a day they don't normally use for continuity of care you could take the child on that day too. BUT you do not have to do this if is your choice and you have to be able to justify why you have done it to your OFSTED inspector

[FussyElmo]

Sorry if I'm being thick here (new childminder, forgive me) but when you talk about having 5 children at any one time, are you meaning 5 children in the EYFS, ie not including those of school age? Because I thought the ratios were 6 children under 8, of which only 3 can be eyfs children?

Panicking now that I've misinterpreted it!!

The ratios you have said are completely correct.

However for continuity of care you could if one of your existing mindees were to have a baby sibling then you can increase your 3 under 5's to 4 under 5's al long as it doesn't take you over your 6 under 8.

Its theoretically possible using continuity of care to have 5 under 5, several baby siblings, being born however ofsted are not looking favourably on this and are picking people up on them only providing basic care not fulfilling a learning and development environment.

However in the instance the children are being taken on for business. Ofsted will probably deem she is over minding and make her ring some of her parents to come and fetch their children and wait with the cm till the parents turn up. This has happened to several cms recently. Its really not worth being graded inadequate for

[Kaybeaa]

Thanks guys