unannounced ofsted viits

[lilac_dragon]

OK, I understand about Mrs O turning up unannounced and that we should all be up to speed with paperwork, house spotless, children all beaming happily as they do their adult initiated activity -

But -

How would you react if they turned up as you were just going on an outing - would you disappoint the children who were all excited about going?
Or what if you were going out to a Doctors appointment?

What if - like me- you had one who was a nervous wreck in front of new people to the extent that if the visit was planned you would have made sure that that child wasn't there rather than have them traumatised.

My paperwork is in a lockable filing cabinet in the upstairs office, and Yes I could go up and get it but it wouldn't be quick, and if I left something behind I would have to go back up again. Thus taking me away from the children.

Would you ask them to come back another time?

If I knew they were coming I'd get everything into a box ready for them - when the children weren't here, and when I knew we'd be home.

How do you feel about this?

[FussyElmo]

If Ofsted did turn up and you were going on a outing you would have to disappoint the children. You would probably have to cancel the doctors appointment or go and come straight back.

I suppose seeing at the inspector will be dbs'ed you are able to leave the children with them as you fetch what she needs.

[Simona]

Yes and I heard it from a senior Ofsted manager...not just me but all those present in the room

In order not to waste a journey the inspector would ring but, she warned, we would not be given much notice or exact date because Ofsted are aware we go out for various reasons and one is school pick ups...this is for normal inspections.

We are missing the point here...either we want clarification or we can go on arguing and guessing what is right or wrong!
I don't know as I am not an expert but I am determined to get some answers either for myself or cms in general.

I am off to the meeting ...I can go with a list of concerns in addition to those sent by Sarah and try to get some answers but cannot take guesses with me.
If Ofsted have changed the rules then we want it in black and white...that is my view and I respect those who disagree.

Come to think of it we could always email Ofsted...anyone offering?

[Mouse]

Freelance Ofsted inspectors are expected to carry out a minimum of 48 inspections a year - one a week if they take 4 weeks holiday.

I wonder if these unannounced inspections are carried out by inspectors who are struggling to meet their target number of inspections?

Or are Prospects (or the other one whose name I can't remember) failing to phone childminders in advance, meaning the inspector turns up, not realising the cm hasn't been contacted?

Or is there just a complete breakdown in the whole process? We know Ofsted struggles to keep on top of their workload?

Or is it a plan to panic childminders into joining agencies where they'd have no inspections?


One local cm did have notice - 20 minutes! The inspector phoned, said "are you in? I'm on my way".

[Simona]

Freelance Ofsted inspectors are expected to carry out a minimum of 48 inspections a year - one a week if they take 4 weeks holiday.

I wonder if these unannounced inspections are carried out by inspectors who are struggling to meet their target number of inspections?

Or are Prospects (or the other one whose name I can't remember) failing to phone childminders in advance, meaning the inspector turns up, not realising the cm hasn't been contacted?

Or is there just a complete breakdown in the whole process? We know Ofsted struggles to keep on top of their workload?

Or is it a plan to panic childminders into joining agencies where they'd have no inspections?


One local cm did have notice - 20 minutes! The inspector phoned, said "are you in? I'm on my way".

Agency cms will be 'randomly' inspected so they too should get the same treatment

Come on girls...how many inspectors happen to pass by your house especially if you live in a rural area?
Every inspector I have had in the past 12 years has arrived here with her Sat Nav and travelled long distance...no one was ever just passing by!
Sorry I do not believe that..cynical I know!

Sarah...you say inspectors have a booklet...is there a publication we can look at?

I have emailed Ofsted...if I get an answer I will relay it to you

[caz3007]

It would be interesting to know what areas these unannounced inspections are in, is there a pattern to the geographic location

[blue bear]

I read somewhere (not official document just someone's opinion) that every childminder that has reported an accident or incident, or a complaint has been received and investigated since jan 2011,regardless of outcome, they will be given an unannounced inspection during this round of inspections.

Now Idont know if this is true or not.

[Simona]

OK, I understand about Mrs O turning up unannounced and that we should all be up to speed with paperwork, house spotless, children all beaming happily as they do their adult initiated activity -

But -

How would you react if they turned up as you were just going on an outing - would you disappoint the children who were all excited about going?
Or what if you were going out to a Doctors appointment?

What if - like me- you had one who was a nervous wreck in front of new people to the extent that if the visit was planned you would have made sure that that child wasn't there rather than have them traumatised.

My paperwork is in a lockable filing cabinet in the upstairs office, and Yes I could go up and get it but it wouldn't be quick, and if I left something behind I would have to go back up again. Thus taking me away from the children.

Would you ask them to come back another time?

If I knew they were coming I'd get everything into a box ready for them - when the children weren't here, and when I knew we'd be home.

How do you feel about this?

Unannounced visits are triggered by complaints and Ofsted will turn up with no notice
What you ask is very important...what do we do?

I hope this will be clarified at the meetings #OfstedBigConversation...(Ofsted have been invited to attend but so far no reply)
no one has the answer and, if it happened to me, I assume I would have to cancel my plans and allow the inspector to carry her inspection or visit
This would never happen to a nursery or preschool because they are always on the premises!!

Some plans maybe difficult to alter such as a visit to the GP, as for letting the children down maybe Ofsted should be the one explaining it to them?
what if a cm was about to go and do a school 'drop off' or 'pick up'?

I have no idea what an inspector would do if the cm decided to go out and tell the inspector to come back??

I will raise that question on the 13th when I attend the London meeting...thank you for bringing it up...very useful because what the sector is trying to do is get 'clarification' on this new wave of inspections

Reporting our 'experiences' is very important ...it is also questioning Ofsted on this unwelcome new practice.

If cms want to be heard and want representation we need to speak up and join the rest of the sector in this campaign

[lilac_dragon]

Unannounced visits are triggered by complaints and Ofsted will turn up with no notice
What you ask is very important...what do we do?

I hope this will be clarified at the meetings #OfstedBigConversation...(Ofsted have been invited to attend but so far no reply)
no one has the answer and, if it happened to me, I assume I would have to cancel my plans and allow the inspector to carry her inspection or visit
This would never happen to a nursery or preschool because they are always on the premises!!

Some plans maybe difficult to alter such as a visit to the GP, as for letting the children down maybe Ofsted should be the one explaining it to them?
what if a cm was about to go and do a school 'drop off' or 'pick up'?

I have no idea what an inspector would do if the cm decided to go out and tell the inspector to come back??

I will raise that question on the 13th when I attend the London meeting...thank you for bringing it up...very useful because what the sector is trying to do is get 'clarification' on this new wave of inspections

Reporting our 'experiences' is very important ...it is also questioning Ofsted on this unwelcome new practice.

If cms want to be heard and want representation we need to speak up and join the rest of the sector in this campaign

I'm Diabetic, and Drs appointments aren't easy to cancel and then rebook - especially when they need to check you regularly before adjusting or issuing medication. With my luck the stress of having to cancel my appointment with Mrs O hovering in the background would probably cause my sugar levels to become unstable - just picture Mrs O leaning over my prostrate body and having to call an Ambuance!! LOL. There goes my lic

[Simona]

I have just received a reply from Ofsted regarding notice for scheduled inspections and unannounced ones

Here it is
''Dear Simona

For scheduled inspections, childminders will receive a call beforehand as they always have done. Where we are bringing forward an inspection as a result of a concern, these are usually carried out unannounced.'' (end)

and this is my reply

'' This a most welcome message.. unfortunately many cms are being inspected without any warning whatsoever when it relates to a scheduled cycle inspection...they report the inspector just turns up on the day and it is causing huge worries as they are concerned about being out on outings or school runs

You may hear about this more...not sure what they can do but it has reassured me.

Regards

Simona'' (end)

If we still get concerns cms have to report them and we can report them.

[Mouse]

I have just received a reply from Ofsted regarding notice for scheduled inspections and unannounced ones

Here it is
''Dear Simona

For scheduled inspections, childminders will receive a call beforehand as they always have done. Where we are bringing forward an inspection as a result of a concern, these are usually carried out unannounced.'' (end)

and this is my reply

'' This a most welcome message.. unfortunately many cms are being inspected without any warning whatsoever when it relates to a scheduled cycle inspection...they report the inspector just turns up on the day and it is causing huge worries as they are concerned about being out on outings or school runs

You may hear about this more...not sure what they can do but it has reassured me.

Regards

Simona'' (end)

If we still get concerns cms have to report them and we can report them.

It does make you wonder whether Ofsted even know inspectors are turning up unannounced.

I have to be honest, since there have been talks of unannounced inspections I have really got on top of my paperwork & I'm staying on top of it. It has always been OK, but not as good as it would be if I knew the inspector was coming I'm confident I'd be OK if an inspector called. Maybe not outstanding, but definitely OK!

That still doesn't stop me checking the peephole to see who's at the door before I answer it

[sarah707]

That still doesn't stop me checking the peephole to see who's at the door before I answer it

I usually have a couple of children behind me shouting 'Sarah DOOR!!!!' ... no way could I pretend I hadn't heard it

[Simona]

It does make you wonder whether Ofsted even know inspectors are turning up unannounced.

I have to be honest, since there have been talks of unannounced inspections I have really got on top of my paperwork & I'm staying on top of it. It has always been OK, but not as good as it would be if I knew the inspector was coming I'm confident I'd be OK if an inspector called. Maybe not outstanding, but definitely OK!

That still doesn't stop me checking the peephole to see who's at the door before I answer it

Very good point...does Ofsted know what the inspectors are up to? driving around country lanes and then popping in because they are in the area??
If turning up unannounced for a cycle inspection is not current practice Oftsed now know it is happening because that is what I put in the email.

Sarah..and if the face in the peephole is a stranger... you don't open it!!

[Helen79]

I've been wondering where we stand on refusing to let an unannounced ofsted inspector in. Just because they have a badge doesn't prove that they are genuine.
I don't think I'd allow an unannounced inspector in as it's not in the best interests of the children to have their day disrupted at short notice and I'd ask them to come back another time when I could prepare the children for the visit and make sure we had enough activities to keep us busy if we had to stay home.
Not sure what the repercussions of doing that would be though.

Some days are really hectic with school runs, playgroup, fitting in meals and naps etc so I don't plan activities everyday as we're out most of the day so if ofsted came on one of those days and we had to stay in then I'd look like a rubbish childminder.

[FussyElmo]

I've been wondering where we stand on refusing to let an unannounced ofsted inspector in. Just because they have a badge doesn't prove that they are genuine.
I don't think I'd allow an unannounced inspector in as it's not in the best interests of the children to have their day disrupted at short notice and I'd ask them to come back another time when I could prepare the children for the visit and make sure we had enough activities to keep us busy if we had to stay home.
Not sure what the repercussions of doing that would be though.

Some days are really hectic with school runs, playgroup, fitting in meals and naps etc so I don't plan activities everyday as we're out most of the day so if ofsted came on one of those days and we had to stay in then I'd look like a rubbish childminder.

I don't think we can actually legally refuse Ofsted entrance to the house. We can ring and have their identity verified but not I think refuse them.
School runs would have to taken because they wouldn't expect you to abandon a child but they would be waiting for you when they got back.

There is nothing in any guidance that says we have to right to request time to prepare for the visit

[Simona]

I don't think we can actually legally refuse Ofsted entrance to the house. We can ring and have their identity verified but not I think refuse them.
School runs would have to taken because they wouldn't expect you to abandon a child but they would be waiting for you when they got back.

There is nothing in any guidance that says we have to right to request time to prepare for the visit

Because of the nature of cminding Ofsted are allowed to give a very short notice for inspections to avoid turning up when a cm is out
This is different...we are talking about an 'unannounced' visit.

I have raised this as a concern to be tackled at the meeting and will seek clarification on this.

Any worried cm should also raise this with their representing association...apart from PLA I am not aware of any attending the meetings...it would be great if they all did as they could then inform their members that they are on the ball and seeking clarification for them

[TooEarlyForGin?]

I also understand that we should all be ready for an unannounced visit. But then I would be concerned what they are judging me on, for example, on days I have planned to go to playgroup/swimming/soft play, although I have toys available, I wouldn't have any "planned" activity out as I have planned to do something else, and could see they could mark us down.

I have always felt, from the introduction of the EYFS that childminders should have their own guidance, a conversation is currently on the facebook page about us not being nursery's but being expected to have all the same amenities, although there is only one of us, and we run a different type of business (much better IMO).

I really feel we should have our own set of standards so we are not confused with bigger settings, that offer something different.

[Simona]

I also understand that we should all be ready for an unannounced visit. But then I would be concerned what they are judging me on, for example, on days I have planned to go to playgroup/swimming/soft play, although I have toys available, I wouldn't have any "planned" activity out as I have planned to do something else, and could see they could mark us down.

I have always felt, from the introduction of the EYFS that childminders should have their own guidance, a conversation is currently on the facebook page about us not being nursery's but being expected to have all the same amenities, although there is only one of us, and we run a different type of business (much better IMO).

I really feel we should have our own set of standards so we are not confused with bigger settings, that offer something different.

This is what we are trying to achieve so that Ofsted adhere to the guidelines when inspecting/visiting cms...we are not nurseries you are correct but home based and, therefore, out and about in the community

If Ofsted have moved the goal posts then we need to get that in black and white to avoid worry and speculations

It is totally unacceptable that cms should fear that knock on the door...we are speaking up but we have to be positive in our engagement and present facts that Ofsted need to look at and reflect on their practice as much as we do.

[Ripeberry]

That's awful if they can just turn up when they want, even if it's not a complaint. They can make snap judgments on what they see and it will stick with you for years. So that one morning when everything is a mess and the kids are having meltdowns, that's when they'll turn up! A group setting is very different from a family home. They can apply the same rules to us. What if your husband was still at home and was trying to get ready for work? Don't think my husband would be happy about official people coming into OUR home.

[sing-low]

If this happened, I would not allow Mrs O in until I had confirmed with Ofsted. While I did this I would probably run round tidying(!). If going out to a playground or group, I'd at least attempt to get Mrs O to come too. My argument would be that I can fulfil the EYFS while I'm out or I shouldn't be going out. I would refuse to cancel a doctor's appointment. Completely unprofessional, not fair on the doctor or other patients. Again, Mrs O can come too or stay and look at my paperwork and I'll be back as soon as possible.