What would you do?

[cupcakencookie]

I've been having issues with changing the hours my 3 yr old son attends nursery for a while now. He attends 14 hrs a week all year round and is funded for 12 hours. Since April I've been trying to change his hours to 2 mornings (total of 6 hours) as I no longer need him there now I'm childminding and it is costing me £130/mth for effectively 2 hours a week! At first nursery told me I was committed to those hours until September and then they told me that all the progress they've made with his communication and confidence would be reversed if I dropped his hours (I was worried that he wasn't playing or talking much with the other children at Christmas - since I've been minding another child though he's come on leaps and bounds). I then agreed he could do 3 mornings and today both the owner and manager tried again to make me change my mind and told me it is my son who is going to suffer. I reminded them that I'm a childminder and that I follow the EYFS with my son so in effect he's getting more than 15 hours education a week but they told me the government have proven that children who attend less than 15 hours a week at nursery do less well both academically and socially. I've got a note on my F.I.S page to say I can collect and drop off at the nursery an they've also told me today that I have to remove that as they are a private nursery with their own list of childminders. I feel so angry - still shaking now and have been finding it really hard holding myself together all morning... I'm thinking of keeping him there over the summer hols and then trying him at another local nursery which only opens term time and moving him there if he likes it.
Am I over reacting? Can they make me remove their business name from my F.I.S page? (until last week I was dropping off another child there who would not have been able to attend otherwise). I feel that they are criticizing both my parenting skills and my business. Any advice would be so gratefully received. Thanks

[Twinkling Stars]

They are been out of order. I would move my son and stay well clear. They can't tell you where you can and cant pick up! Its none of their business!!!

[cupcakencookie]

Thank you - that is what I thought. Just concerned in case there are any legal requirements for me to remove their business name from my page...if not, I'll leave it there just to annoy them!!!

[hectors house]

Surely this is free advertising for them - can't see the problem lots of childminders list the schools or nurseries they are prepared to take/collect from - what are you supposed to do, just give parents clues! um well it is 5 mins walk from me, 2 words, second word sounds like ?

[Mouse]

I guess they're concerned about the money they're going to lose by you withdrawing your son. They may already have included him in the figures they have submitted, so are now miffed at having to change it & lose some money.

I would take my son out if that's there attitude. I would ask for confirmation in writing that they will not allow you to use their name on your FIS page (which is ridiculous), then speak to someone at your local early years department, letting them know what this nursery has said.

They cannot stop you from collecting from their nursery unless they get a court order banning you from the premises!

[Mrsh3103]

I would be so mad. I'd probably remove my son there & then. I wouldn't wait until September to do it.
Like you've said you follow the eyfs so it's not as if he's going to be missing out on anything by not going!

[madredann]

Totally ridiculous i have never heard such rubbish! The hours that you choose are your business you do not have to give reasons or explanation as to why you want to change the hours they have had plenty of notice and they are been unhelpful they cant tell you not to drop and collect from their nursery but if I was you I would withdraw my child and find somewhere nicer x

[Helen79]

What's their notice period for changing hours or leaving the nursery? They may find themselves in a pickle with regards to claiming the 12 hours free if he's not using it until Sept as they may have already claimed that (I'm not accredited though so not entirely sure how the funding works). I changed ds's nursery half way through the term and the funding just followed him to the new nursery. I think they relaxed the rules a few years ago to make it easier for parents to have flexible childcare.

They can't stop you from dropping the extra 2 hours that you pay for as long as you give them the correct notice. They definitely can't force you to keep sending him there even if it does make it difficult for them with the funding. Maybe phone your LA to find out how the funding works and what rights you have as a parent to change his hours.

Are you accredited? If you are (or from Sept if they change the rules so that all good/outstanding cm'ers can claim) you can claim for the funding for your ds yourself or share the funding with a nursery.

The FIS page is nothing to do with them so I wouldn't remove my details from their page. Maybe phone fis to see what they say.

Sounds like they're trying to bully you into keeping him there for the money, I wouldn't want to keep my child at a nursery that spoke to me like that and was criticising my parenting and ability as a cm'er. If he's really happy there and wants to go for the summer then maybe carry on sending him but if he's not that fussed I don't think I'd send him.

[rickysmiths]

I've been having issues with changing the hours my 3 yr old son attends nursery for a while now. He attends 14 hrs a week all year round and is funded for 12 hours. Since April I've been trying to change his hours to 2 mornings (total of 6 hours) as I no longer need him there now I'm childminding and it is costing me £130/mth for effectively 2 hours a week! At first nursery told me I was committed to those hours until September and then they told me that all the progress they've made with his communication and confidence would be reversed if I dropped his hours (I was worried that he wasn't playing or talking much with the other children at Christmas - since I've been minding another child though he's come on leaps and bounds). I then agreed he could do 3 mornings and today both the owner and manager tried again to make me change my mind and told me it is my son who is going to suffer. I reminded them that I'm a childminder and that I follow the EYFS with my son so in effect he's getting more than 15 hours education a week but they told me the government have proven that children who attend less than 15 hours a week at nursery do less well both academically and socially. I've got a note on my F.I.S page to say I can collect and drop off at the nursery an they've also told me today that I have to remove that as they are a private nursery with their own list of childminders. I feel so angry - still shaking now and have been finding it really hard holding myself together all morning... I'm thinking of keeping him there over the summer hols and then trying him at another local nursery which only opens term time and moving him there if he likes it.
Am I over reacting? Can they make me remove their business name from my F.I.S page? (until last week I was dropping off another child there who would not have been able to attend otherwise). I feel that they are criticizing both my parenting skills and my business. Any advice would be so gratefully received. Thanks

I would be speaking to your EY adviser and 3-4 year Funding manager at your LA and the local Children Centre manager. They are trying to blackmail you into staying with them and that is not on. Nurseries etc are not allowed to insist on 'top up hours' and if you are doing this to suit you and want to give notice then you follow their Notice Policy. I would remove him at once it he was my child even if I had to pay though I would make sure the Funding people knew you had removed him and why because I think they will have to return the Funded money to them. I would also register with the LA to delver the funding yourself so from September if he is taking up one of your EY spaces you should get the 15 hours funding for him. From September all Ofsted Registered Childminders will be able to deliver the 3-4 funding.

They can not get you to remove their name from your listing on FIS as presumably all you say is that you collect from that Nursery. Mind you I would remove their name and replace it with 'I collect from local Nurseries and Pre Schools'. I would advertise a shower like them.

I would also report them to Ofsted for threatening you as a parent and questioning your ability to care for him especially as you are a cm and delivering the EYFS to all the children in your care including your son.

Also remember to follow the Nurseries Complaints procedure to the letter.

[The Juggler]

you only have to give the notice (of a change of hours or to leave completely) that you are contracted to in the agreement with nursery. Some nurseries might have a minimum number of hours so might say 6 is too few and you might risk losing your place. What THEY mean however, is that if you move your son, or drop your hours they may be asked to repay the funding money (some LA's were askign for it back). The funding however, can't be moved elsewhere so it's likely they will keep it anyway.

Any parent can move their child out of a funded setting whenever they want - what they would normally need to be aware of though is if they moved their child in June say and wanted to join another nursery somewhere else the other nursery wouldn't be able to offer the funding as it would be stuck with the original nursery as it is not allowed to be moved. But in your case, that doesn't matter as you are not requiring the funding.

[bunyip]

I pretty much agree with everything posted.

I'd go through the nursery's complaints process on the grounds they are bullying and failing to respect your childcare needs as a parent.

Complain to Ofsted as a parent on those grounds, and as an EY provider cos they are failing to work in partnership with you.

Advice the FIS that the nursery is seeking to restrict/prevent you from operating collections from them, and that they are attempting to interfere with your legitimate use of the FIS website.

Advise the EY funding team that the nursery is attempting to bully and make you accept additional terms upon your funded hours. Also clarify exactly how many hours your lo has attended, so they can check this against funded hours claimed by the nursery.

I find it very disturbing that the nursery is operating a 'preferred list' of CMs. They are in effect setting themselves up as arbiters of quality, which I think would interest both Ofsted and the FIS. In addition, I'd seek legal advice as to whether this represents an attempt at "restraint of trade". If the FIS insists you remove reference to collecting at that nursery, that may also amount to a "restraint of trade".

All in all, I'd be aiming to give the nursery one hell of a kicking.

[jackie 7]

They won't loose money as funding is term time only and why only 12 not 15 hours? How dare they say they are better for a child than a childminder. Complain but expect an ofsted visit. They may complain about you.

[cupcakencookie]

Thank you all so much for your advice and support! I was so angry yesterday I decided to give notice to the nursery then woke up this morning thinking perhaps I was being neurotic and over sensitive, however I re-read all of your comments and now feel justified in what I'm doing and will walk in there on Friday with my letter of resignation and my head held high (though I'll probably scuttle off as fast as I can and cry after I've handed it in!). I don't think I'll take him again for the month I've got to pay for - I've lost all faith in them now and my letter is less than complimentary! I phoned the nursery my daughter went to for a placement in September and the lady who runs it recognized my voice and asked after my daughter who will be 10 next month. To me that speaks volumes - she has remembered her for 6 years (for the right reasons I hope!) whereas I don't think my son will be remembered at the other place in 6 months - he's just a statistic with a pound sign in front of his name!