Unemployed to be trained as Childminders by PACEY

[shortstuff]

I have concerns about e-training - especially for first aid - I don't actually see how you can do it properly 'virtually'. In 2008/9 I did all face-to-face training. On re-registering, most has been e-training and I have to admit I have really struggled with it. I know I'm not the only one - my CYPOP5 course assessor told me there were lots of people taking many months to complete it.

I completed it by e-training and it took me 6 months. That was because I was working full time 12 hour night shifts and running a home. Some people cant devote all of their time to furthering themselves. Not all people. Also please don't take this as anything negative. I would just like to show that I am probably one of those people your assessor was speaking about. It was not through lack of ability or desire but just being darned exhausted at working a 12 hour night shift, 4 hours sleep, family life and then another night shift. I took my time to ensure things were done correctly. As you will probably discover that will be the same for most people that choose e-learning over actual classes that need attending. Its just the juggle and other things normally take priority.

[SammySplodger]

I completed it by e-training and it took me 6 months. That was because I was working full time 12 hour night shifts and running a home. Some people cant devote all of their time to furthering themselves. Not all people. Also please don't take this as anything negative. I would just like to show that I am probably one of those people your assessor was speaking about. It was not through lack of ability or desire but just being darned exhausted at working a 12 hour night shift, 4 hours sleep, family life and then another night shift. I took my time to ensure things were done correctly. As you will probably discover that will be the same for most people that choose e-learning over actual classes that need attending. Its just the juggle and other things normally take priority.

Absolutely Gail... I completely know where you are coming from. It took me 3 months, fitted around three part time jobs and my busy family life. Sounds like I had more time than you did. I worked every evening possible until the wee small hours. I wanted to get it right and even went back to amend assignments when it wasn't strictly necessary.

It was almost the same as ICP (done face to face over two weekends) and I had three years CM experience behind me. But still I found it hard. It was getting my head around what they actually wanted from each assignment. Oh and I didn't receive the course book until 3 weeks in (fairly crucial part of it :-/ ). I know that I am not alone in feeling like this, as I have read it on other Fora.

[twinkletots]

Sorry who are ncma?

I don't think there's any need to be sarcastic about the situation, that itself is not professional! Please practice what you preach, it's not nice! People should be able to have their views on the forum without sarcastic comments made back... Please refrain!

[angeldelight]

I don't think there's any need to be sarcastic about the situation, that itself is not professional! Please practice what you preach, it's not nice! People should be able to have their views on the forum without sarcastic comments made back... Please refrain!

I think a lot of people will call it NCMA for a long time to come yet ..it's like anything that changes name we just get so used to it ....I don't like tha name Pacey it reminds me of those sweets that we're out in the days when starburst were called opal fruits they were green and white and minty ha ha ...please tell me someone remembers them ha

So for my head I still think of them as NCMA at the moment ha

Angel xxx

[rickysmiths]

I think a lot of people will call it NCMA for a long time to come yet ..it's like anything that changes name we just get so used to it ....I don't like tha name Pacey it reminds me of those sweets that we're out in the days when starburst were called opal fruits they were green and white and minty ha ha ...please tell me someone remembers them ha

So for my head I still think of them as NCMA at the moment ha

Angel xxx

Oh I remember those sweets Angel! For the record I think the name pacey is naff but it is what we have for now whether we like it or not.

[rickysmiths]

I don't think there's any need to be sarcastic about the situation, that itself is not professional! Please practice what you preach, it's not nice! People should be able to have their views on the forum without sarcastic comments made back... Please refrain!

I am sorry I didn't mean to offend it was a reaction to one and I shouldn't have done that.

[angeldelight]

Oh I remember those sweets Angel! For the record I think the name pacey is naff but it is what we have for now whether we like it or not.

Does that mean we are getting old

Angel xx

[SammySplodger]

Yes! green and white mints...
But also: Dawson's Creek :-)

[rickysmiths]

Does that mean we are getting old

Angel xx

No Angel. Having just celebrated my 58th birthday I have never felt younger! Only 2 years before I get my bus pass and I will be hopping off everywhere!

[bunyip]

My reason for being disappointed (yet again) with pacey is that they have decided to do this ABC Pathway scheme without even pretending to consult us members. I have no real comments to make for or against pacey training new CMs.

There is nothing we can do or, for that matter, really should do to prevent other people becoming CMs (unless we wish to go down the highly expensive route of becoming a 'profession' in the true sense and having an association that restricts access to the 'profession' - something which I suspect would've prevented most of us from joining.) Yes, it may well be more comforting to know that pacey/Barnardos will be running this in preference to purely profit-oriented training companies.

But it is a major decision and is part of a chain of events which seem to indicate that pacey "know what is best" for members and will do what pacey wants with little regard for its members. This is going to become a vicious circle. The more pacey ignores the voice of its members, the fewer members will bother to speak up, since our voices are falling on deaf ears.

It is a huge calculation, and one that is pushing people closer to the brink of leaving the organisation.

[bunyip]

Just to say I agree with those who've said it would've been better for the Whitehall regime to commit ongoing support, funded training, anything to keep our costs down - rather than this mass recruitment drive.

But the point is that wouldn't meet regime targets.

A commitment to on-going support costs them far more money than a system which gets new CMs up and running, then leaves them to sink or swim by their own resources in the 'marketplace'.

Moreover, government can only hope to deliver the 2yo provision and drive down childcare costs by this sort of supply-side solution.

I'm not saying it's good. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that's the way it is.

[bunyip]

And another thing......................... (I'll shut up in a minute .)

....................I find the whole training thing quite baffling.

I know online learning can be a fantastic tool, but not sure it is always appropriate for teaching first aid. The Red Cross and St John Ambulance made a conscious decision some years ago to make the courses totally "hands on". It was deliberately intended to be accessible to trainees with no functional skills whatsoever in written language or maths - and many lives have been saved as a result. Also, as the result of extensive research, it was found that "hands on" training encouraged people to be proactive in a real casualty situation. No way can e-learning simulate that.

CYPOP5. Having not done it, I'd be interested in knowing why it is taking so long to complete. To be brutally honest, it is the equivalent of 6% of an A-level qualification. Why is it taking 6 months to do a tiny fraction of an A-level, when school students can complete 4 A-levels in a little over 18 months? I'm not trying to put down anyone who is doing the CYPOP5 - it's a genuine question, cos I'm interested to find out.

[Simona]

Will these articles make any sense?

This one mention Mott McDonald which I referred to previously but called them Dermott...apologies now all clear

Sarah Teather confirms multi-million pound contract to support two-year-old nursery places | Nursery World

and this is from PLA
VSC funding of £60m is 'great news for the sector' | Nursery World

and this one came out a while back and is about funding the scheme
Charity organisations split £60m | Nursery World

[Optimalstar]

Sammysplodger, not everyone is required to do cypop5 or whatever it's called. I'm in Hartlepool and in my opinion the training isn't great. It's mainly focused on what you need to register, first aid, safe guarding and a little on the EYFS which if you're not familiar with is a complete waste of time. I'm a qualified teacher with early years experience but if I wasn't I imagine i'd have struggled as I'd have had to go off and research it by myself.

[Mouse]

I think a lot of people will call it NCMA for a long time to come yet ..it's like anything that changes name we just get so used to it ....I don't like tha name Pacey it reminds me of those sweets that we're out in the days when starburst were called opal fruits they were green and white and minty ha ha ...please tell me someone remembers them ha

So for my head I still think of them as NCMA at the moment ha

Angel xxx

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pa...2F%3B576%3B416

I don't remember them...which is unusual for me. I know most sweets

[rickysmiths]

And another thing......................... (I'll shut up in a minute .)

....................I find the whole training thing quite baffling.

I know online learning can be a fantastic tool, but not sure it is always appropriate for teaching first aid. The Red Cross and St John Ambulance made a conscious decision some years ago to make the courses totally "hands on". It was deliberately intended to be accessible to trainees with no functional skills whatsoever in written language or maths - and many lives have been saved as a result. Also, as the result of extensive research, it was found that "hands on" training encouraged people to be proactive in a real casualty situation. No way can e-learning simulate that.

CYPOP5. Having not done it, I'd be interested in knowing why it is taking so long to complete. To be brutally honest, it is the equivalent of 6% of an A-level qualification. Why is it taking 6 months to do a tiny fraction of an A-level, when school students can complete 4 A-levels in a little over 18 months? I'm not trying to put down anyone who is doing the CYPOP5 - it's a genuine question, cos I'm interested to find out.

I agree with you one the first aid front however a company in our County now offers online modules for first aid with one session face to face for half a day instead of the 2 full days. I know from other cms who come to our cm group that this will be attractive because they moan like crazy about giving up 2 days every 3 years. I don't understand really to me 2 days every three years is nothing but there you go. I think first aid is so important that my children did it at 16 (well they did it a lot earlier at scouts bit their first formal qualification) and before they were allowed to babysit and now at 18 they have the full 12 hour Pead Cert. Dh and Ds are off to renew theirs in a couple of weeks.

I did Cypop 5 as part of the full Diploma last year. It took me 8 hours to complete it as a Unit. As an experienced and already working childminder I had already got some of the work done for the business part, Policies and Procedures, Risk Assessment, Contracts, Info forms etc. It took me 15 months to complete the full Diploma attending a monthly full Sat Study day which meant we had approx 1 unit a month to complete though some units like CYPOP 5 are big units. I did this whilst I was working 50 hours a week, plus 8 hours on a Sat and Sun and babysitting one evening a week. I also have two of my own and during this time one was in first year at Uni and went into melt down in the January! My son was in the middle of AS Levels and we had a big issue with school and a bullying episode concerning his whole friendship group. I do think it should be possible to complete CYPOP 5 in 3 months with the correct guidance, the trouble is that this tuition is often not part of the training. CYPOP 5 covers all aspects of starting up a Childminding business, it is not difficult at all more laborious as in fact the whole Level 3 is and it is very repeatative which is tiresome, the work itself is not difficult at all it is the format that makes it a challenge especially if you have never done any kind of academic work before.

[rickysmiths]

Sammysplodger, not everyone is required to do cypop5 or whatever it's called. I'm in Hartlepool and in my opinion the training isn't great. It's mainly focused on what you need to register, first aid, safe guarding and a little on the EYFS which if you're not familiar with is a complete waste of time. I'm a qualified teacher with early years experience but if I wasn't I imagine i'd have struggled as I'd have had to go off and research it by myself.

It is a requirement that it is completed along with First Aid and Child Protection Training before you can become registered now. See EYFS September 2012.

[rickysmiths]

My reason for being disappointed (yet again) with pacey is that they have decided to do this ABC Pathway scheme without even pretending to consult us members. I have no real comments to make for or against pacey training new CMs.

There is nothing we can do or, for that matter, really should do to prevent other people becoming CMs (unless we wish to go down the highly expensive route of becoming a 'profession' in the true sense and having an association that restricts access to the 'profession' - something which I suspect would've prevented most of us from joining.) Yes, it may well be more comforting to know that pacey/Barnardos will be running this in preference to purely profit-oriented training companies.

But it is a major decision and is part of a chain of events which seem to indicate that pacey "know what is best" for members and will do what pacey wants with little regard for its members. This is going to become a vicious circle. The more pacey ignores the voice of its members, the fewer members will bother to speak up, since our voices are falling on deaf ears.

It is a huge calculation, and one that is pushing people closer to the brink of leaving the organisation.

I do hear what you are saying, however having been a Member for some 18 years now I must say we are consulted far more and have more opportunity to voice our opinions that we have in the past. I never remember being fully consulted on all decisions made by NCMA. I think sometimes we have to trust that they are making choices on our behalf and for the better of the Association. I do know with just Childminder and Nanny membership they were in huge financial difficulties. It seems to me this Training Grant is actually a positive way to gain valuable income and to highlight the success of their Training to encourage other users and increase the revenue stream. I don't have a problem with their training new childminders where ever they come from because I feel at least these new minders will be given a start via an organization that has a vast experience of what childminding is all about. Much better to my mind than a local School or even Children's Centre setting up as an agency with no experience of Childminding offering to train new childminders, that does put the fear of God in me for the future of quality of childminding.

[SammySplodger]

It is a requirement that it is completed along with First Aid and Child Protection Training before you can become registered now. See EYFS September 2012.

Indeed - I still had to do it, even though I was re-registering and already had my ICP certificate and three years experience. And I had to pay for it myself too :-/
I had no additional tuition at all - just the online training. The format of the info isn't great and there were technical issues which meant new training modules didn't 'open' (which wasn't clear, caused confusion and delays).
I have to say, I felt it was a laborious, repetitive, waste of my time, constantly quoting Sheila RL.
At my pre-reg Mrs O looked at both certificates and said: yes, they are basically the same, but confirmed that I still had to do CYPOP5.

[Optimalstar]

I stand corrected Rickysmith. I registered a couple of years ago and the last cohort of people registering didn't seem to do anything different to what we did.

In reply to whoever questioned whether early years settings would pay the rate for a graduate in order to have the increased ratio. I was employed by a private nursery as a graduate but not at the rate I'd have got had I returned to teaching. However I gained other benefits. I chose my hours which were as flexible as I needed at the time. My eldest was born with Downs and was out of school more times than in so returning to teaching was problematic as with a young baby at the time even supply teaching was limited. My baby came with me to work saving me the cost of the childcare I would have paid if I'd returned to working anywhere else. So no they couldn't ( or wouldn't) pay me a graduate salary but I gained in other ways which made it an attractive option still.