parent needing advice about a childminder !

**nanny-plum** · 24-03-2011, 08:32 PM

Hi i am a mother of 3. my youngest is almost 3 and with childminder 2 days a week from 8-5.30, he takes his own snack, packed lunch, juice, nappies and wipes. CM also collects my 8 yr old from school at 3pm where cm also picks up her daughter. We also provide an evening meal for the 2 kids. We are charged 3.50 an hr for the youngest and £3 an hr for the oldest. We pay her weekly as its easier for us. She charges me half fees in the holidays even though she doesnt have mine at all in hols (except if she goes away!), full pay if me or child are ill, no pay if she is ill.I asked to swap my 2 days to the following week so she does 4 days instead of 2 and she said i still have to pay for the 2 days he isnt there the week before, she has not other kids she minds..why should i pay for work she isnt doing? she isnt holding a place open, or losing work as she has no other kids there. What are my rights as a parent?

**Blaze** · 24-03-2011, 09:30 PM

Hello & welcome to the forum.

I'm afraid if that's what's contracted that that's quite correct (sounds to me like your CM's charges are fairly standard). Regardless of any other children that she may or may not care for you chose 2 contracted days & now you want to use 4 in one week (for a brief time)...so you would pay for 4 days - as well as the 2 days that you are choosing not to use, this is normal as far as fees are concerned. She is available to work what has been agreed in the contract and is prepared to work the extra days that you have requested - which in total would be a charge of 6 days worth, even if you are only using 4 of them - that is your choice.
Sorry if that was not what you were expecting to hear.

~Chelle~ · 24-03-2011, 09:41 PM

Hi, Welcome to the forum.

I am afraid that your childminder is right to charge.

Your children are contracted to attend on these days. You pay for the slots that your children attend, regardless of whether they attend or not. If they were unwell, you would still have to pay. It is not the childminders fault that you are changing your days, therefore it would be a loss of earnings, even though you have requested that she have your children for 4 days the following week, you would have to pay for these too as these are extra hours.

The childminder would not be able to take anyone else on for this day as the space is already allocated to your child IYKWIM.

Sorry if that is not what you wanted to hear xx

**Ripeberry** · 24-03-2011, 09:47 PM

But the OP is only swapping some of the days and says the CM has spaces on all the other days and this is only temporary?
It's not that the parent is dropping any hours, just lumping them together in one week rather than two seperate weeks.
The CM still gets the same amount of money.
One of my parent gets messed around by her employers a lot and her days change almost every week. I try and accomodate her the best I can as I've got spaces, but it's always a temporary thing and even though the days are all over the place, it's still the same hours each month.

Of course, if I did not have the space then I could not help. In the end, it's up to the individual CM and we are all different.

**Ripeberry** · 24-03-2011, 09:52 PM

Maybe it's because you pay weekly and she would lose out on money for one week? If you need to change days like this, maybe best to pay monthly in advance and get the bill adjusted as and when you increase hours.
Usually, a decrease in hours would need an amended contract.

**miffy** · 24-03-2011, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Blaze

Hello & welcome to the forum.

I'm afraid if that's what's contracted that that's quite correct (sounds to me like your CM's charges are fairly standard). Regardless of any other children that she may or may not care for you chose 2 contracted days & now you want to use 4 in one week (for a brief time)...so you would pay for 4 days - as well as the 2 days that you are choosing not to use, this is normal as far as fees are concerned. She is available to work what has been agreed in the contract and is prepared to work the extra days that you have requested - which in total would be a charge of 6 days worth, even if you are only using 4 of them - that is your choice.
Sorry if that was not what you were expecting to hear.

I second what Blaze has said.

You are not "paying for work she isn't doing" - you are paying for the days and hours you usually need, which are still available for you to use if you wish.

Miffy xx

~Chelle~ · 24-03-2011, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ripeberry

But the OP is only swapping some of the days and says the CM has spaces on all the other days and this is only temporary?
It's not that the parent is dropping any hours, just lumping them together in one week rather than two seperate weeks.
The CM still gets the same amount of money.
One of my parent gets messed around by her employers a lot and her days change almost every week. I try and accomodate her the best I can as I've got spaces, but it's always a temporary thing and even though the days are all over the place, it's still the same hours each month.

Of course, if I did not have the space then I could not help. In the end, it's up to the individual CM and we are all different.

I know what you mean and when one of my parents does this, I always swap the days and never charge extra.

I was saying that I could see where the childminder is coming from. As usually any change to any contract should have 4 weeks notice, so the childminder would be within her rights to charge for the sessions that have been booked but havent been used.

I think it is one of these situations where we all know what we would do but different childminders have their own ways of running their business. I dont charge for Bank holidays but I know loads that do xx

**Twinkles** · 24-03-2011, 10:08 PM

I have in my fees policy that hours are not transferable.

**Mouse** · 24-03-2011, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Twinkles

I have in my fees policy that hours are not transferable.

I have the same in my policy and explain to parents that I don't "swap" days from one week to another. In this case I would have explained that 2 days a week need to be paid for, whether or not they are used. If 4 days were needed one week, I would charge for the additional 2 days as well as the normal 2.

Penny1959 · 24-03-2011, 10:35 PM

Hello and welcome to the forum

I think you will have noticed by the replies that childminders all set their own fees and policies and procedures.

In your case you have agreed to two days a week and therefore your childminder is quite right to charge for the 2 days every week - even if you don't use them and for the extra 2 days the following week. In some ways you are lucky that your childminder has the flexibilty to meet your requirement of 2 extra days.

If this is just a 'one off' then I suggest you either use the 2 days in the week that the childminder is holding them for you as per your contract or accept that you will have to pay and not use them.

However f for any reason the hours / days etc agreed to in the contract no longer meet your requirements you should discuss it with your childminder and ask to have a contract review meeting so that if possible your childminder can agree to change it or if not you can give the appropriate notice and find someone else who is able to meet your requirements.

Penny

**jane5** · 24-03-2011, 11:23 PM

I also do not swap days as I book dentist appointments, hospital appointments ect on the days that I am not contracted to work.
Although I would try to be available if a parent needs extra hours I would not swap days around as I would never be able to make appointments in advance.

Pipsqueak · 25-03-2011, 07:15 AM

I am in agreement with everyone else here. You are contracted to certain hours/days and its totally at the minders discretion if they were to transfer hours. So she is within ther rights to charge for the contracted days as well as the transfered hours.

Please don't view it as paying for work not done - the work would be done but it is you (not the minder) choosing to change the original agreement (albiet temporarily). You are paying for the space.

**singlewiththree** · 25-03-2011, 07:18 AM

I regularly swap days with parents and even for one parent I did a flexible contact as she regularly had to swap days but she understood that if a day wasn't available she had to find alternate care. I don't charge half fee retainers in holidays either.

Every childminder works differently I suggest you sit down and chat with your childminder saying as its a one off could she do half fee as a retainer for the other days instead.

**The Juggler** · 25-03-2011, 07:43 AM

Hi NannyPlum as everyone has said, your CM is totally within her rights to make these charges. Minders can be flexible and if she was already working AND had the space she might offer occasionally for you to swap contracted hours but not regularly. If she did, in effect she would be working on her days off for no extra money. Not many people would agree to do that.

I also agree that she might have plans or made appointments. I know it's hard but I only have 1 day off with no other children and I wouldn't give that day up even for pay. That said I have often allowed swap days when I am already working but def. as one offs or to help with difficult family circumstances.

I think perhaps your CM thinks that if she allows it once it might be seen as 'allowable' and then this would present her with difficulties in filling the vacancies she has on the other days. You never know if you reassure her on the one-off front and that you wont' make a habit you might get her to change her mind.

**snufflepuff** · 25-03-2011, 08:29 AM

Some childminders might be happy to just swap the days around if they are able to do so, but your childminder is within her rights to charge for the days not used. I personally have allowed parents to swap days in the past with no extra charge but I ended up with a parent just assuming she could do this all the time, then being annoyed with me if I ever told her I couldn't do it! So in future I will think twice about it.

**karen m** · 25-03-2011, 01:30 PM

I agree with Snufflepuff ,i was always flexible allowing parents to swap and change days then just before i moved a parent turned up normal time in morning and TOLD me they would be about 45/60 minutes late for collection that day when i said i could not do it they were quite rude and implicated that i was being funny as i was moving countries,nothing to do with trying to pack house up and travel to Scotland for a house veiwing and back to England within 36 hours

**Polly2** · 25-03-2011, 01:48 PM

Regarding the charging during the holidays when you do not need her - could you ask for a term time only contract? You then would not be able to use her during hols at all but it might work out cheaper for you if whe was able to do this.

Of course every cm is different as you can see

BuggsieMoo · 25-03-2011, 02:23 PM

HI Nannyplum

I agree with all that has been said so far and all cm's are different. I have a term time only child who only pays for the 39 weeks of the year she is here (if she is sick it is 1/2 rate, if she takes holiday in those 39 weeks it is 1/2 pay, if I am sick/my children sick it is nil rate and my holiday is nil rate) but that it in agreement that should someone call and need the space full time then the term time only place would be vacated.

I also have a some full time children (i.e. all year ranging from full time hours and part time hours) where again their holiday and sickness is 1/2 rate, mine is nil.

I agree to parents taking 4 weeks hol a year at 1/2 rate - anymore then it is full rate. My holiday is all at nil rate as I appreciate that the parent needs to find alternative care which maybe at cost.

I have offered flexibility and altered days to suit parents when there has been a need and when I have been able to without charging the parents additional - but I get 1 morning off a week now and I am pretty much full the rest of the time and I know that no amount of money could make me work that 1 morning.

You have signed a contract with the cm stating what days you need her and therefore she has every right to charge you for any days you do not attend. If your LO attended a nursery for instance they would class the 4 days in 1 week as 2 additional days and you would be billed for 6 days.

Your cm cannot offer those 2 days you have vacated 1 week to someone else (unless it was very very short notice) as she is contracted to have your child and therefore cannot advertise a vacancy for these days as she may not be able to offer them again.

If your contract with your cm no longer meets your needs then ask for a contract review and see if you can agree one that suits. If not, you may have to find alternative childcare.

I also agree and it certainly is my policy and that of most cm's I know (and nurseries) that 4 weeks notice to contracted hours needs to be given in writing unless it is an emergency and is at the discretion of the childcare provider IF they have the space.

Sorry that this is probably not what you want to hear.

I hope you manage to sort it.

Lisa

**alwaysright** · 28-03-2011, 01:20 PM

i have to agree with everything thats been said already, i wouldnt change hours like that either, just reminded me to a=go and change my policy to say so

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 28-03-2011, 02:00 PM

I am reiterating what is already posted

Put yourself in the position of the childminder - she needs security and hence she charges half fee (loses half fee aswell) in the holidays. I know that you are not using her then but you could and if you didn't pay her at all then she probably wouldn't have a space for you when you did want her

I have term time and holiday contracts but my rates are substantially higher than your childminders.

If you want a flexible hours contract why not sit down and discuss it with her and see what you can both work out to accomodate both of your requirements.