Late payment fees.... the legal view point...

**Louise B** · 05-01-2011, 12:18 AM

Hi, I just wanted to check what everyone else knows on this subject, because I've just had a major shock today. You may remember the family who I had thieving problems with, and had previously had a late payment, with lots of hassle. Well both girls are now finished here, but I haven't been paid for the November invoice. It was handed to mum on 2nd December and she had 7 days to pay. I sent her a message on 11th to say I needed to pick up some papers from her and please could I have the payment at the same time. She text back to say she had a new bank account and her wages had been messed up so she couldn't pay me until the 23rd December

I text back to say I really needed it because of Christmas, kids, bills, etc, but if she couldn't pay before the 23rd, then late payments fees of £5 a day would be charged from the 11th. She said she was struggling but would pay on the 23rd. Bear in mind she also receives tax credits to pay towards her childcare!

Anyway, the 23rd came and went, and still I've heard nothing from her. I'm so angry with her, she was an acquaintance, she only lives just behind me, and I see her at school. Her final bill is now sitting here and I doubt she'll be rushing to pay that either. So, my kids were expected to go without over Christmas, and my account stayed overdrawn because of her. She plays the "single parent with 2 kids thing", but I don't live with my partner and I have 3 kids, and when they were in nursery I paid the bill by direct debit. It amazes me the cheek of people!

Today I rang NCMA for advice on wording for a letter. The woman I spoke to was very off hand and just said "you can't charge for late payments, you'd be laughed out of court". Apparently it's like a bank charge, deemed as unfair, and although we can have policies and state it on our invoices, we cannot enforce it and it wouldn't stand up in court! So while I've been working out how much extra she owes me, it seems I can't actually ask for it!! How ridiculous is that?! If I didn't pay for a catalogue delivery, I'd be charged a late payment fee, same as with a credit card! How come we're not able to make our own rules, put them into a contract, and actually stick with them??? Has anyone else charged for late payment and been paid? I did think about just adding it to her bill, but then if it goes to court I wouldn't have a leg to stand on apparently!! Help!!!!

xx

**Blaze** · 05-01-2011, 12:24 AM

I take it you're with NCMA & not MM for your PLI...?

Pipsqueak · 05-01-2011, 08:08 AM

yes this is what i was told.

I would however ring back the customer service manager of NCMA and compain
a) about how you were talked to
b) overall complaint explaining the situation

The late fees we add are apparently above teh rate of inflation and should not be added.

**Louise0208** · 05-01-2011, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

The late fees we add are apparently above teh rate of inflation and should not be added.

does that mean that there is an acceptable lower fee we could charge?

**Blaze** · 05-01-2011, 09:51 AM

The thing is MM allow late payment fees...Now i stress this is just my personal opinion but I believe that NCMA stance on this is that if they represent you in the small claims court (which is a laugh in itself as most people end up doing it themselves with little helpful imput from NCMA legal), then they may have to justify the charge ie it's there to cover bank charges, late payment fees etc that YOU may be charged as a result of not being payed as per contract & it's not guarenteed that you'll get it as down to judges' descretion technically ...so they won't support it!

(Same reason they demand you only use their contracts if you want their legal help).

**Louise0208** · 05-01-2011, 09:57 AM

so far i have not heard a great deal of good about NCMA legal/customer services....im thinking i should of gone with MM now

**Blaze** · 05-01-2011, 10:07 AM

NCMA is aware that the service is lacking, but they themselves are tied into a contract with the legal team they use - NCMA are looking at trying to improve the service in the Spring / Summer once they are not bound by the current contract.

**Blaze** · 05-01-2011, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Louise B

Hi, I just wanted to check what everyone else knows on this subject, because I've just had a major shock today. You may remember the family who I had thieving problems with, and had previously had a late payment, with lots of hassle. Well both girls are now finished here, but I haven't been paid for the November invoice. It was handed to mum on 2nd December and she had 7 days to pay. I sent her a message on 11th to say I needed to pick up some papers from her and please could I have the payment at the same time. She text back to say she had a new bank account and her wages had been messed up so she couldn't pay me until the 23rd December

I text back to say I really needed it because of Christmas, kids, bills, etc, but if she couldn't pay before the 23rd, then late payments fees of £5 a day would be charged from the 11th. She said she was struggling but would pay on the 23rd. Bear in mind she also receives tax credits to pay towards her childcare!

Anyway, the 23rd came and went, and still I've heard nothing from her. I'm so angry with her, she was an acquaintance, she only lives just behind me, and I see her at school. Her final bill is now sitting here and I doubt she'll be rushing to pay that either. So, my kids were expected to go without over Christmas, and my account stayed overdrawn because of her. She plays the "single parent with 2 kids thing", but I don't live with my partner and I have 3 kids, and when they were in nursery I paid the bill by direct debit. It amazes me the cheek of people!

Today I rang NCMA for advice on wording for a letter. The woman I spoke to was very off hand and just said "you can't charge for late payments, you'd be laughed out of court". Apparently it's like a bank charge, deemed as unfair, and although we can have policies and state it on our invoices, we cannot enforce it and it wouldn't stand up in court! So while I've been working out how much extra she owes me, it seems I can't actually ask for it!! How ridiculous is that?! If I didn't pay for a catalogue delivery, I'd be charged a late payment fee, same as with a credit card! How come we're not able to make our own rules, put them into a contract, and actually stick with them??? Has anyone else charged for late payment and been paid? I did think about just adding it to her bill, but then if it goes to court I wouldn't have a leg to stand on apparently!! Help!!!!

xx

TBH if it were me in your situation, I would go it alone without NCMA. (Presuming you have late charges written into your contract or policies & either a statement signed by the parent aggreeing to said policy or the actual policy itself signed). I would initiate proceeding via the small claims court (it will cost you to do this & there is no guarentee that you'll get paid even if the court finds in your favour) - but all the NCMA will do is talk you through the smalls claims procedure & send someone on the day (which actually the courts don't like as SCC is meant to be for joe public & not really for legal representation)! Send a letter to parent with invoice including late payment charges stating that if monies owed are not paid by friday then you will be initiating court proceedings & stick to that. If it comes to court the way I see it is if you don't ask you won't get - so go for late payment charges & hope the judge agrees - if he / she does then great if not then you'll only get childcare fees (presuming of course the judge finds in your favour , which they should do)!
HTH

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 05-01-2011, 11:44 AM

If you have late fees written into your contract (not just a policy) I would call back NCMA and ask to speak to someone higher up (not just a phone line person)

**Mouse** · 05-01-2011, 12:29 PM

I was always lead to believe that late fees had to be a "reasonable" amount in line with the rate of inflation and in relation to the amount of money outstanding. I think you're advised to have a percentage late fee, rather than a set amount.

**Louise B** · 05-01-2011, 06:51 PM

Thanks for the replies, that's been a help. I've had a think about it and decided I will chase her for full fees AND the late payment charges. She had no idea about my financial situation and could've left me in the a bad position over Christmas with 3 kids to support (not to mention a mortgage and bills!). I've checked her contract and it DOES say she'll be charged £5 a day if she doesn't pay, and my invoice states clearly in red at the bottom that this charge will apply 7 days after the bill is issued. I started charging late fees on the 11th, so she had a few days extra anyway, then she promised to pay on the 23rd, then absolutely no word.

I dread tomorrow, I'll probably bump into her at the school gates, I just hope she doesn't try to talk to me

Tonight I'm going to do a letter with a breakdown of the costs, and a copy of each bill, and a copy of the page in the contract which sets out the costs. If NCMA are going to pretty much leave us to it anyway, I might as well be on my own from the start.

I do feel a bit guilty though, she might have to give up having her nails done, weekends away and her convertible car! lol.

(PS, I rang the Inland Revenue to inform them that she's not with me now, just in case she's still claiming, which wouldn't surprise me, but couldn't get through... so when the kids are in bed I'm going to try again. Got a bee in my bonnet now, lol)
xx

**murphy61** · 07-01-2011, 11:24 AM

i have gone it alone after parent left without notice and refusing to pay late fees as i supposedly breached contract by taking time off when either i or my dd were sick so i was apparently unreliable. Got to go to court this afternoon, so will let you know how i get on.

**sarah707** · 07-01-2011, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by murphy61

i have gone it alone after parent left without notice and refusing to pay late fees as i supposedly breached contract by taking time off when either i or my dd were sick so i was apparently unreliable. Got to go to court this afternoon, so will let you know how i get on.

Oh crikey I didn't realise it was today!

Good luck xx

**Blaze** · 07-01-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by sarah707

Oh crikey I didn't realise it was today!

Good luck xx

Neither did I - hope it goes well x

**Blaze** · 07-01-2011, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Mouse

I was always lead to believe that late fees had to be a "reasonable" amount in line with the rate of inflation and in relation to the amount of money outstanding. I think you're advised to have a percentage late fee, rather than a set amount.

I'm not being funny, but our nursary charges £5 for EVERY minute that you are late collecting(you are given 5 mins grace) - so if you turn up at £6:10pm & were due to collect at 6pm you get charged £25 for those 5 mins & you get charged £10 per every late day paying up to the value of £2,000! (Perhaps that's the difference - there is a cap on it)?

**Goatgirl** · 07-01-2011, 11:57 AM

Hi Louise

I hope you get your money without the hassle of court etc, but good luck whichever way it goes

bws,
Wendy

Originally Posted by murphy61

i have gone it alone after parent left without notice and refusing to pay late fees as i supposedly breached contract by taking time off when either i or my dd were sick so i was apparently unreliable. Got to go to court this afternoon, so will let you know how i get on.

Yikes, that must be nerve-wracking

...hope it goes your way: good luck

**The Juggler** · 07-01-2011, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

yes this is what i was told.

I would however ring back the customer service manager of NCMA and compain
a) about how you were talked to
b) overall complaint explaining the situation

The late fees we add are apparently above teh rate of inflation and should not be added.

I agree with Pip completely. Call for a second opinion. At the end of the day bank charges might be unfair but we still have to pay them!!!

**Beckieboo** · 07-01-2011, 02:07 PM

Hope it all goes well for you this afternoon! Keep us posted x

**Louise0208** · 07-01-2011, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Blaze

I'm not being funny, but our nursary charges £5 for EVERY minute that you are late collecting(you are given 5 mins grace) - so if you turn up at £6:10pm & were due to collect at 6pm you get charged £25 for those 5 mins & you get charged £10 per every late day paying up to the value of £2,000! (Perhaps that's the difference - there is a cap on it)?

coooor... wish i could charge that....id be minted lol, not once has either of my parents been on time