Chicken pox, & charging

[Kittycat]

My child came down with chicken pox this week,
I made all my parents aware he had it & that I was still available to childmind ( all children are afterschool and have had chicken pox
So all but one parent has still sent their child to me.

This one childs parents are being a tad over dramatic here, their child has had chicken pox but are worried she could catch shingles?😳 so haven't sent their child to me, last night parents saw me in the playground and totally avoided me like I had the plaque ( had to take my child with me on the school run as I couldn't leave him by himself)


My question here is should I be charging for the day's her child hasn't attended?
Obviously I'm still working & available, but it's their choice not to send her.

[shortstuff]

When my ds had chicken pox i didn't charge if parents chose not to send.

That was my choice and i made the families aware right at the start. Especially as the one family who didn't attend mum was in early stages of pregnancy.

You need to reach an agreement where bith of you are happy. Has the parent discussed the money with you?

[FussyElmo]

I wouldn't charge yes the child has already had it but they could get it again.

I think if you make the decision to stay open while your child is ill/infectious you have to accept some parents keeping their children away

[Kittycat]

No we haven't discussed money?
Doesn't help that I'm writing up next months fees for tomorrow
I've always been led to believe a child with chicken pox is infectious two week before any spots appear & not during the time they have spots.

[FussyElmo]

No we haven't discussed money?
Doesn't help that I'm writing up next months fees for tomorrow
I've always been led to believe a child with chicken pox is infectious two week before any spots appear & not during the time they have spots.

No they are still infectious until all the spots are crusted over that's why the exclusion period is there

[AliceK]

I wouldn't charge in this instance. Your own child has a contagious disease and parents have a right to not send their children even if you do stay open. To save a lot of potential unpleasantness I would not charge.

xxx

[Chatterbox Childcare]

No you can't charge - you aren't supposed to be open! How can you take this child out when you are in quarantine at home with your own sick child? Now that you have taken other children whilst yours is sick you are going to have to keep them if they are ill too so if mum who is staying at home doesn't want hers to come during this time you can't ethically charge for that either as you have the pox in your house.

this sounds blunt but I think you have made a rod for your own back and it might come back and bite you in the a...s. We all learn by our experiences, hope this is a good one for you and no one else catches it

[lisbet]

I personally wouldn't charge the parent. My sickness policy states that I follow Public Health England guidelines and for chickenpox they recommend that the child is excluded until spots are crusted over. Therefore if my own child had it I would have closed.

Does your sickness policy state that you do not exclude for chickenpox? If so I guess you can charge the parent because she has agreed to that when she read your policies and signed the contract. I can see why she wouldn't be keen on her child attending/ paying fees though, and if it was me I think I would waive fees in this case.

The Public Health Guidelines are below, and also the NHS Choices info about chickenpox; If you scroll down the page it says that you can't catch shingles from someone with chickenpox - I don't know if that would reassure the parent at all?

I hope your LO just has a mild dose and doesn't feel poorly with it, and I hope it works out ok with the parent

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ls_11_Sept.pdf

Chickenpox - NHS Choices

[macherie]

My child came down with chicken pox this week, I made all my parents aware he had it & that I was still available to childmind ( all children are afterschool and have had chicken pox So all but one parent has still sent their child to me. This one childs parents are being a tad over dramatic here, their child has had chicken pox but are worried she could catch shingles?dde33 so haven't sent their child to me, last night parents saw me in the playground and totally avoided me like I had the plaque ( had to take my child with me on the school run as I couldn't leave him by himself) My question here is should I be charging for the day's her child hasn't attended? Obviously I'm still working & available, but it's their choice not to send her.

You can't catch shingles from chicken pox. Once you've had chicken pox it's like the cold sore virus, it doesn't go away it is just dormant. The dormant virus can then re-emerge as shingles when the body is tired or stressed. Chicken pox does not cause shingles but a child who has contact with shingles can catch chickenpox.

I would have given parents the same option you did, however there have been recent cases of children having chicken pox twice so I don't think it's fair to charge the parents for keeping their child at home.

[Kittycat]

No you can't charge - you aren't supposed to be open! How can you take this child out when you are in quarantine at home with your own sick child? Now that you have taken other children whilst yours is sick you are going to have to keep them if they are ill too so if mum who is staying at home doesn't want hers to come during this time you can't ethically charge for that either as you have the pox in your house.

this sounds blunt but I think you have made a rod for your own back and it might come back and bite you in the a...s. We all learn by our experiences, hope this is a good one for you and no one else catches it

All children who are mindees have had chicken pox, only two children one who hasn't had pox & one who has hasn't attended.
I spoke to all parents as I was away to close but all made the decision to Continue sending their children to me as they had all had chicken pox
My child isn't doing school runs with me, my neighbour comes in to sit while I go five mins away to pick up & I only look after before and afterschool children

[Mindful Mama]

I don't think she is being over dramatic and I don't think you should charge her. Your child is sick with a highly contagious illness. Its fair enough if she doesn't want to attend. Its not true that once you have had chicken pox you can't catch it again, many people can, although it is more common that you can't. I wouldn't send my child to a childminder whose child had chicken pox even if my child previously had had chicken pox and I would be pretty annoyed if the minder was going to try and charge me for it. Sorry to be blunt. :-)

[Mindful Mama]

Also when you say you needed to take him on the school run... is that to pick up minded children or some of your own? I can understand if you were completely stuck and had your own children to pick up and really absolutely had no choice (although its bad as chicken pox is contagious and can have horrible complications for some children and pregnant women) but if you need to take him with you to pick up the minded children alone, then that it in itself should be a reason to close as its not ok to be taking a child with chicken pox out into public really unless its an emergency or there really is absolutely no other option.

[bunyip]

I think there's a lot of misinformation/misunderstanding around chicken pox, shingles, etc. Certainly, when I wozzalad, mums used to send us to play with children who had chicken pox (and mumps and measles for that matter.)

But there are very good medical reasons why this is not good practice.

I'm going to have to come out and say I agree wholeheartedly with Chatterbox and Mindful Mama, even though there's an 'old-school' side of me that almost rankles with the dilemma of 'old-fashioned common sense versus regulations' . But it's definitely an "almost" and the miss is as good as a mile.

You are dealing with a very contagious infection. You have no way of knowing that infection will not be spread, directly or indirectly, to a vulnerable person (eg. with a blood disorder). Plus, there is a significant possibility that a child whose parents think they've had it before will indeed catch CP at your setting because whatever they had before may well have been previously misdiagnosed (it is notoriously difficult for doctors to diagnose with any great accuracy, which is one very good reason why they always want patients to be isolated and effectively quarantined. The last child I excluded with CP was supposed to have had it already, and she ended up in hospital.

I have to say that allowing any minded child into your setting has already put you on the wrong side of HPA guidelines and in direct breach of EYFS welfare requirements. It leaves you open to a possible complaint against which you would have very little chance of mounting a successful defence.

IIWY, I'd go exceptionally easy on the "over-dramatic" mum (I think your client might prefer the word "protective") and keep absolutely everything crossed that the whole thing will blow over without further ado.

[Lal]

Chicken pox is horrible- My daughter has had it twice. First time really mild, 2nd time she was really unwell- throwing up, no energy etc as well as the spots. It is increasing common for children to catch chicken pox twice (as my GP told me)

My friend's daughter ended up in hospital for 3 weeks with pneumonia as a complication of chicken-pox. She has scarring on her lungs as a result. Both my daughter and my friends little girl are generally fit and healthy with no other health issues.

In my opinion it's irresponsible to knowing expose others to illness.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

All children who are mindees have had chicken pox, only two children one who hasn't had pox & one who has hasn't attended.
I spoke to all parents as I was away to close but all made the decision to Continue sending their children to me as they had all had chicken pox
My child isn't doing school runs with me, my neighbour comes in to sit while I go five mins away to pick up & I only look after before and afterschool children

I think you have midunderstood me - my point was how can you take a mindee out and offer all the learning experiences you are supposed to do as a Childminder when you are quarantined at home with you own child? I am not saying you are taking your own child out, just the opposite.

I stand by my comments and not to charge the mum who decided to stay away from your setting as I don't believe you should be open under current regulations.

Sorry but you did ask.

[Kittycat]

I think you have midunderstood me - my point was how can you take a mindee out and offer all the learning experiences you are supposed to do as a Childminder when you are quarantined at home with you own child? I am not saying you are taking your own child out, just the opposite.

I stand by my comments and not to charge the mum who decided to stay away from your setting as I don't believe you should be open under current regulations.

Sorry but you did ask.

Like I previously have stated though I'm not working full time or have children during the day
So not taking a minded child out for new experiences etc doesn't apply during the day as all children are at school & parents arrive not very long after

I made the decision to continue to work based on the response of the parents
They know full well what chicken pox is
I'm sure I'm not the first to stay open
I'm not going to charge her, I was only asking.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Like I previously have stated though I'm not working full time or have children during the day
So not taking a minded child out for new experiences etc doesn't apply during the day as all children are at school & parents arrive not very long after

I made the decision to continue to work based on the response of the parents
They know full well what chicken pox is
I'm sure I'm not the first to stay open
I'm not going to charge her, I was only asking.

My apologies - I didn't see this when I first read your post.

[bunyip]

Like I previously have stated though I'm not working full time or have children during the day
So not taking a minded child out for new experiences etc doesn't apply during the day as all children are at school & parents arrive not very long after

I made the decision to continue to work based on the response of the parents
They know full well what chicken pox is
I'm sure I'm not the first to stay open
I'm not going to charge her, I was only asking.

IMHO you should still be closed, regardless.

CP spreads so incredibly easily that you might even be carrying it round on your clothes. It's not enough to isolate the patient in a different part of the house, as anybody entering the house has a chance of contracting the virus. Therefore you should not have mindees on your premises. You can't do school runs and keep everyone completely safe, even if you collect from school and take the schoolies straight back to their homes. Medical advice is that the parents/family of a patient should avoid contact with vulnerable groups. How, exactly, can you guarantee that not one mum is the playground is pregnant and not one person has a blood disorder?

As I already mentioned, those clients who think their children have already had it may well be wrong. OK, I'll concede they've probably had it before, but how can you be sure? Sure enough to risk inspection and stake your good grade and the reputation you've worked so hard for?

But really that's not the point. Our client parents do not have the luxury of choosing to opt out of our legal responsibility to follow the childcare regulations. They can't tell us to forget about infection control any more than they can tell us it's OK to employ an assistant who is barred from working with children. I've had plenty of parents who say they wouldn't mind if I went above ratio to take on a child: it doesn't mean I can do it.

Neither is this an excuse: "I'm sure I'm not the first to stay open." Do you think it's right to do something wrong because someone else has done it before? I would not accept that sort of playground argument from a child.

As I said, you are leaving yourself open to a complaint. This could come from some local busybody, disgruntled neighbour, rival local CM, or from one of the very same parents who are (currently) happy to send their child. Don't think it doesn't happen. Parents can turn their coats very quickly: circumstances alter cases. If just one of those children who has supposedly "had it before" breaks out in spots.......well, let's say the parent "wouldn't be the first...."

If you end up with a complaint-driven inspection, Ofsted will not be least interested that the parents 'permitted' you to breach regulations, nor that you are "not the first to stay open". You won't be the first to get an inadequate grade as a result, either.

To be perfectly, brutally, honest - then, yes, you will probably get away with staying open. You may well get away with charging the very responsible mum who IMHO has chosen to put her child's health first and stay away. But I don't think childcare should be about what I can get away with in regard to child welfare. What kind of example or role model is that anyway?

You probably feel some of us are being very harsh on you. The plain truth is we don't want you to get into trouble and we don't like seeing things that drag down the reputations of registered childcarers as a whole. If we have to upset a few people to get the message through, so be it.

If you're at all receptive to information, you may find the link useful:

Chickenpox - Prevention - NHS Choices

Yes, I'm maybe "going off on one" but I only wish you'd sought advice before you made a mistake that puts you in a vulnerable position. I know that my best friends on the forum are those who'll tell me when I'm wrong. That's how I learn and improve.

Rant end.

[blue bear]

Just because this child has had it there is no guarantee they have built an immunity and won't catch it agin. My son has had it three times, doctor took a blood test and told me he doesn't build an immunity, it's probably because of his other health issues. My son is so poorly with chicken pox has ended up in hospital with a drip.
So I agree with the parents, keeping child off and away from anyone with chicken pox is good advice.

As a childminder you have a duty to prevent the spread of infection and in staying open you are breaking the rules.

You should be closed. The fact you have stayed open to help the parents out doesn't mean you can charge those parents who decide to keep their child away.