Child left - edenred voucher still paid need to refund

**samb** · 06-11-2014, 02:08 PM

As above. Child left before half term and parent forgot to cancel her edenred voucher. I have received money. I called them and they said to refund to parent. This happened to me about 18 months ago and I was told not to refund to parent as it had tax implications and so I refunded to edenred. They are saying it's up to the parent to then declare it. Is this correct?

**AliceK** · 06-11-2014, 02:10 PM

I have always understood that we are not allowed to refund the parent directly it has to go back through the voucher company. I'm sure you've not been told correctly on this one. Did you get the name of the person you spoke to? Perhaps you could email the voucher company the question and get it in writing as to what they want you to do??

xxx

**samb** · 06-11-2014, 02:40 PM

I said to him I want it in writing as I'm sure that isn't right. I haven't had an email through yet though.

**cs01** · 06-11-2014, 03:46 PM

I have previously refunded parent for a voucher payment from edenred as parent had forgotten to stop the payment. That was the advice given to me by their helpline and they also advised that it was up to the parent to declare this to the taxman.

**VeggieSausage** · 07-11-2014, 01:23 PM

I would refund to the parent as the contract has ended between you....make sure they have cancelled for next month.....

**rickysmiths** · 07-11-2014, 02:17 PM

Well I have just had a long call with Edenred. I currently have a parent who uses them and in fact I have been registered with them for 20 years now as my first ever minded child's parents paid me with Childcare Vouchers that were given to them by their Employer.

I am shocked. Their advise indeed is to return any over payment direct to the parent. When I pointed out that doing this would mean giving the parent a tax and NI free lump sum they told me that this is not always the case because some parents are given vouchers by their employers that have a monetary value and can be used to pay for childcare but have not been taken from the parents salary. The implication being that they do not pay Tax on this 'Voucher' it is a bonus.

The girl on the phone said it was our choice to give it to the parents! When I asked her how that could be if the parent had clearly overpaid and the money wasn't mine to keep and Eden Red wouldn't take it back then they were leaving me with no choice. She then tried to say I could pay it to the parents next provider! When I indicated that perhaps she didn't understand what I was asking she informed me she was now going to terminate the call. For the recording no doubt so she can't be accused of hanging up on me but she clearly didn't really understand the potential implications of what she was (though she was saying it was MY choice) advising me to do.

Now I thought that any bonus paid was subject to Tax and NI so I am a bit confused by the advise from Eden Red. I am also very concerned about the possible implications of the advise.

They have given me an Email address to use to get more information and I will certainly be emailing them over the weekend. It is:

helpdesk@edenred.co.uk

I would highly recommend any of you who have Edenred Vouchers to contact them and ask for the procedure for any over payments in writing.

I indeed returned a sum of money on their instruction, by check to them 3 years ago when a parent left having overpaid and it was no problem.

I will also be looking into contacting all the Voucher Companies I am Registered with for advise in writing on returning over payments, I do not want any come back from HMRC over this.

**samb** · 07-11-2014, 09:48 PM

I called back again and I was given this email address too. I emailed this morning saying I need this confirmed in writing. I pointed out to the lady on the helpline that their FAQ states that you do not refund to the parent (although it doesn't say what you do). I haven't had a reply. The parents I need to refund are both accountants and have said they will deal with the tax side of things but it just seems odd as only 18 months ago I had to refund to edenred for the same problem.

I agree it seems a huge loophole as some parents will be able to avoid tax payments. I was also told that maybe I could forward to new carers but I can't do that either as they are now using a nanny who isn't ofsted registered. :-/

**tigwig** · 08-11-2014, 08:32 AM

I have been told in the past by kiddicare it can be ok to refund parent if they have been topping up their fees with money themselves as well. Although they are also happy to get the money back and it stays in the parents account.

**samb** · 11-11-2014, 06:44 PM

Well I have it in writing now to refund to parent if overpayment made and no option of forwarding to a new childcare provider. I imagine different voucher companies have different rules so will ask again If this happens in the future.

**rickysmiths** · 12-11-2014, 01:29 AM

I think in that case I would send the money with a letter saying on Eden Reds advise you are refunding the over payment to them, pointing out to the parents that because this money was paid to you by them via Eden Red and that they may be liable to pay Tax and NI on it.

That way you can show you have warned them.

Simona · 12-11-2014, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by samb

As above. Child left before half term and parent forgot to cancel her edenred voucher. I have received money. I called them and they said to refund to parent. This happened to me about 18 months ago and I was told not to refund to parent as it had tax implications and so I refunded to edenred. They are saying it's up to the parent to then declare it. Is this correct?

No...any c/v must be refunded to the c/v company who will then put the money back into the parents' account

We must never refund parents directly because this scheme is linked to tax and NI savings

Worth putting a clause in your contract...get parents to confirm in writing they have cancelled the agreement and when this is done 'sign your contract' off

**rickysmiths** · 12-11-2014, 12:37 PM

Simona I have always thought this and indeed 3 years ago I returned an over payment to Eden Red by cheque as instructed by them.

As a result of this thread I rang Eden Red I have a parent who uses them at the present and I have been registered with them for 20 years. I was shocked at their response because they do now indeed advise to return the money to the parent and they will not take any over payments back. The girl I spoke to was absolutely amendment about it. She said that not all payments into Voucher Accounts were non taxed pay that many were just paid in by the employer as a bonus! First I have ever hear that I must say. Her argument was that therefore not all Voucher Payments were subject to Tax and NI, I thought all Bonus paid these days was subject to Taxation? She suggested to email them to get this information in writing which was why I put the email address in my previous post.

I will get in touch with them myself because the situation concerns me and I will be making Pacey aware of this apparent change in Policy.

**samb** · 12-11-2014, 07:17 PM

I simona- yes I too thought this which is why I posted but after speaking to 2 different edenred representatives and having received an email confirming the information I have refunded and forwarded the email to the parents for their records too with a read receipt so that not only have I written confirmation of this but that the parents were also notified just in case it comes back on me.

Simona · 12-11-2014, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by samb

I simona- yes I too thought this which is why I posted but after speaking to 2 different edenred representatives and having received an email confirming the information I have refunded and forwarded the email to the parents for their records too with a read receipt so that not only have I written confirmation of this but that the parents were also notified just in case it comes back on me.

Thank you for that Samb
I have in the past had to refund c/v on a couple of occasions but this has always gone back to the company NOT the parents...I followed their instructions
They said the c/v are exclusively for childcare therefore they get returned to the parents' account

If this has changed I am not aware of it ..I also think the C/v companies should issue some guidance to providers if it this is so

Good idea RS to make our associations aware of this...somehow warning bells are ringing in my head if this development is allowed
I have doubts they will be allowed to do this under the new Free Childcare tax scheme next year

Just an added wanring...one of the c/v companies once took money from my account which they had asked me to refund by cheque
This is definitely a NO NO ...c/v can only put money IN our accounts NOT take it out.