Think I am under cutting other local minders.

[trickiedickie]

I have slowly been getting to know some local childminders. Only got registered in December and properly started minding in March.

I had a rough idea that in my area childminders were charging £30 to £35 a day. I spent many hours trawling through childcare.co.uk and the council childminders local website (the one we all get on for free) looking for local rates in my area. This is where I got above figure from. I coul see childminders hours varied slightly ranging from 7.30am starts to 8 am starts and 5pm finishes to 6pm finishes. Therefore I thought going in at £32.50 a day term time 8 til 5.30pm no retainer was a good price. Wasn't undercutting and I was desperate for term time (I have 4 children of my own at primary school and nursery).

I went to a toddler group today (that mostly consists of childminders). I am in SCotland so we don't have toddler groups for childminders only, which is good as we are more than welcome to go to any toddler groups we fancy.

All the childminders there were lovely to me and very welcoming (once I got there I realised I knew a couple from a couple of training classes I have attended). All were lovely except one. She wasn't very pleasant to a couple of the children there ( I didn't know who were her mindee's etc.)

She told me she is a term time childminder too. That all the childminders in my area charge £35 a day and if term time like her charge 50 per cent during the holidays. She was screwing her face up when I told her my charges etc. Making faces as if I was undermining all of them and obviously under cutting them all. I know for a fact that not all childminder in my area charge 50 per cent retainer. Two other childminders charge a higher rate than mine, £35 a day but no retainer.

i could tell she was annoyed and was having this conversation with me right next to all the other childminders and a couple of parents. I found myself getting annoyed at her and telling her that when I started out I could only go by the info I had sourced. As far as I was aware there was no price fixing in my area She had a reputation behind her which was allowing her to still get business charging a retainer I didn't. As she has been minding 15 years.

I suppose I just wanted to moan. I do want to increase my price once I have had my mindee's for a year. I have put down on the contract that it will be reviewed in a year. I do want to charge £35 a day (at the moment I am £32.50 a day. I am not fussed about a retainer. I don't want to work holidays and my children don't want me too.

Would a new childminder's charges annoy you if they were less than yours?

[trickiedickie]

My aim over the next two years is to be full for 3 days a week, to earn £35 a day term time and to finish at 5pm.

At the moment I am full 4 days a week, earn £32.50 a day and finish at 5.30pm.

Is it any other child minder in my area's business what way I want my business to go?

[shortstuff]

Tobe fair I dont get involved in what other cms charge. Im in an area where I know 3 other cms and I only know the rates of 1 of them. Its not anything we have discussed and would rather that families are a good fit for us.

My view? I wouldn't let it worry you. Run your business the way you would like to. Im sure you will be great.

[Koala]

I don't care what other minders charge - I charge what I want and I am full, full, full - £35 per day (8am - 5.30pm) with 50% charge in non term time for term time only. I charge full days only and a lot of childminders in my area are a lot cheaper and charge by the hour - ranging from £2.50 - £3.00.

If you were in my area and charged £32.50 per day term time only and no charge in non term time it wouldn't bother me at all.

Do not let other minders bully you, you obviously have got the one who thinks she knows everything and has a right to dictate (there is always one) start as you mean to go on and charge what you feel is right and what you are happy with otherwise you will be kicking yourself.

[trickiedickie]

Thanks everyone. When I say I am full I mean I have two mindee's a day (I am only allowed to mind two a day) so have worked out all my finances for that. I thought some childminders were charging £30 a day for 8 til 6pm so £32.50 for 8 til 5.30pm term time only was fine.

I have just had a horrible day. I had that childminder rolling her eyes and screwing her face up at my charges this morning and then a women in Aldi shouting at me as she perceived me to be queue jumping. My husband away and kids to get to their clubs tonight. I am feeling sorry for myself. I am sure I will dust myself off tomorrow and hopefully be happier.

Tomorrow's a new day and I am off

[rickysmiths]

I know that my rates are higher than many of the cm near me but I believe I am more highly qualified and I offer a better service. I am full and currently have two people begging for places so I don't think my rates are putting people off. I am cheaper than the local Day Nurseries and other cm have Vacancies so I work on the basis if people are prepared to pay.

[smurfette]

I would like to work Tto but can't afford not to charge a retainer ,, I have lost business because I do and there are others in the area who are happy to just charge for hours used... No point being cross at Them (and to be fair if that other minder has such a great reputation what is she worried About lol?!) it's just the way it is, one day I will be able to afford not to charge a retainer and that's what I am aiming for! Sounds like you are doing fine I wouldn't let it bother u,
There will always be those who charge less and those who charge more than you.. Hope u feel better today!! Xx

[Mouse]

All the childminders there were lovely to me and very welcoming (once I got there I realised I knew a couple from a couple of training classes I have attended). All were lovely except one. She wasn't very pleasant to a couple of the children there ( I didn't know who were her mindee's etc.)



Would a new childminder's charges annoy you if they were less than yours?

Perhaps she wasn't really annoyed about your charges - perhaps she's just always miserable!!

I would never be worried about a new childminder charging less than me. In fact, I'd almost expect it. They have to get started somehow - they can't rely on experience to attract parents, so charging less is the one way they do have of getting them interested.

I think I'd be more likely to get annoyed if I knew a new childminder was charging MORE than me! I have one of the higher rates in the area, but if I saw someone new charging more than me, I'd think "hang on a minute. If they can charge that, why can't I ?!"

[trickiedickie]

Thanks everyone. I feel better about yesterday now.

I've just had a parent visit for just a Friday space for the wee one. Wee one is 19 months and wouldn't leave his Mum's lap. Cried most of the visit and kept saying he wanted to go. Thinking this is not a good omen.

I've also remembered that I am working this afternoon! The mindee is lovely and just for a few hours so all is fine.

I am definately off tomorrow so happy days ahead.

Thanks again all.

[bunyip]

I find the term "undercutting" to be unnecessarily value-laden and unhelpful. ie. If you charge less than a local CM they claim you are "undercutting" - charge more and a parent says you're "overcharging". Both terms are doubly meaningless, as it is impossible to compare like with like when you consider quality of care, resources, and all the hidden extras some CMs like to add, whilst others have an all-inclusive fee.

One of the most baffling things that struck me when I entered the weird and wonderful world of CMing was how some people go into a self-employment situation, then all flock together and try to do everything pretty much the same - as if some really don't want to be self-employed in the first place. This is especially bad in my area, where the local CM group (cartel-cum-mafia) really do price-fix, as well as having identical policies, holiday arrangements, etc. and go out of their way to damage the businesses and reputations of any who don't toe their line.

[ziggy]

It must be very difficult for parents, in my opinion. Where I live we all charge different amounts, some charge for holidays, some dont. The others include a cooked meal each day (I dont). I am the only one who takes mindees to groups, beach, park etc.

The only time i changed my prices was after finding out a nearby minder was charging much more than me and (again in my opinion) did very little with the children (although she did provide cooked meal each evening).

I have found out the hard way that by offering lower price for a family of 3 doesnt mean the parents wont go and find a cheaper alternative. So now I charge a daily fee, no matter how many hours are needed, dont offer meals but i do pay for all groups and days out.

My point is that we are all very different and I do think there should be a minimum hourly/daily rate but we all do what is best for us. That has to be one of the positive aspects of being self employed

[Mouse]

One of the most baffling things that struck me when I entered the weird and wonderful world of CMing was how some people go into a self-employment situation, then all flock together and try to do everything pretty much the same - as if some really don't want to be self-employed in the first place. This is especially bad in my area, where the local CM group (cartel-cum-mafia) really do price-fix, as well as having identical policies, holiday arrangements, etc. and go out of their way to damage the businesses and reputations of any who don't toe their line.

Wow, that brings back memories of when I first started childminding! We had one woman who ran the whole of childminding in our area - heaven help you if you crossed her. You'd be shunned by the whole group and your name would never be given out to prospective parents! She appointed herself the 'vacancy co-ordinator', so all calls for work went through her. Once she'd filled her spaces she'd pass on the details of her friends. In the 7 years she was the co-ordinator, I got one call through her! I was recognised as a trouble maker pretty early on

At their group AGM she'd set the fees that everyone had to charge, but bizarrely, her and her friends would then charge less if they wanted the work!

It was all very odd and not what I'd signed up for as a self-employed business owner. Luckily our breakaway group proved very successful and is still running, long after the other group ended

[Maza]

Hope you're feeling better today. It's nobody else's business (literally) what other people charge. xxx

[little chickee]

I know that most if not all cm in my area have recently put their prices up by 25p per hour.
I have chosen to keep mine at the lower rate because i have spaces and need the work.
I figure that if a parent is trying to chose between several similar cm they may well chose me cos im cheaper.

as far as im concerned thats my choice to make.

[CCC123]

I recently set up in Devon and found that the prices in my area vary greatly, some with food, some without, a couple of CM's charge for activities while others include etc.
I started by setting my fees in the middle of the range and including all activities and food but have since increased them slightly for part-timers as have had to turn away other business and luckily have had lots of enquiries...
Very difficult to price it right but feel better since I increased for the half days
Good luck with your new business!!

[Tealady]

If she is busy then what is she worrying about.

The only time I wanted to talk to a new CM about her low charges was from the sheer fact she was incredibly low. She had childcare experience and was charging a day rate of £35 all inclusive when the normal minimum was £45 with parents normally having to provide somthing themselves. I wasn't worried about loosing business to her, I just that she had seriously undervalued herself. I never contacted her incase she thought I was being off with her.

[bindy]

Its up to you what days hours you work and what you charge.Your business!

[line6]

I'm like you and haven't charged my term time only family a retainer for school holidays because to be honest I'd rather not be working and am in the fortunate position that I don't reply on my income to pay my bills. But that is my choice the same as it is any other childminders choice to charge. I don't understand people who are able to set their own charges and t&cs stropping because someone else has done it differently.

[bunyip]

Wow, that brings back memories of when I first started childminding! We had one woman who ran the whole of childminding in our area - heaven help you if you crossed her. You'd be shunned by the whole group and your name would never be given out to prospective parents! She appointed herself the 'vacancy co-ordinator', so all calls for work went through her. Once she'd filled her spaces she'd pass on the details of her friends. In the 7 years she was the co-ordinator, I got one call through her! I was recognised as a trouble maker pretty early on

At their group AGM she'd set the fees that everyone had to charge, but bizarrely, her and her friends would then charge less if they wanted the work!

It was all very odd and not what I'd signed up for as a self-employed business owner. Luckily our breakaway group proved very successful and is still running, long after the other group ended

Viva trouble-makers, eh, Mouse!

I recall receiving a stern warning about "poaching" from my DO, whose acolytes at the CM group had complained about me. My 'crimes' were to have a client* who lived in the same street as one of the group, and to provide ad hoc care on a bank holiday for a parent whose CM flatly refused to work bank holidays.

*The client had actually seen that CM at work and told me she wouldn't send her dog there, never mind her lo.

[trickiedickie]

You have all made me feel so much better. My friend who lives relatively close to me (10 mins away in car) has started the registration process. She is also starting to get quite adamant about this £35 charge a day. She said all the childminders at her childs school have told her they all charge £35 and every childminder in this area does!

As you have all said, this is my business, I have put in the hard slog getting it up and running and I will decide what works for me.

Thanks again everyone and I do feel much better today, the sun is shining and I have been off.

Hope the sun shines for you all this weekend.