Free entitlement Questions

[Velleity]

Hello ^_^

I've had my first ever enquiry for fifteen free hours for a three year old.

I know vaguely that it is around £3.50 an hour that I would get from the Government which is not that exciting as my usual fee is £6-£7.00 per hour but I don't want to tell the parent they have to 'top up' the money as then it's hardly a ~free~ fifteen hours for them and that seems a bit mean.

But. If they want to use those fifteen hours, three hours a day, like the pre-schools do, I am pretty much losing a potential full-time space for a really small amount of money. Can I say to her that she needs to use the fifteen hours over two whole days instead, possibly? She wants to start in April after her daughter turns three but I can't even really guarantee a place will exist them because I am actively looking to fill it.

I also have some vague memory of someone mentioning that you get paid extra for doing the paperwork for the free placement children? Is that true? Can anyone advise me generally on the pros and cons of taking on this kind of contract? Is the free hours only for term-time?!

Thanks!

[alex__17]

Following this with interest, I'm also new and had a enquiry, my LA pay £4.10 I think for the 15 hours, but I charge £5... Not as big a difference as you, but even so every little helps and once expenses/food/trips etc are taken out there's not a lot left. It makes me think whether or not to offer the free 15 hours

[Mrsh3103]

As far as I'm aware we are not allowed to ask parents to top up the fees.
My LA allows us to charge the parents for things like food and trips out on top of the funded hours. But there was a thread on here a few days ago about a la who insist that everything must be free to the parents. So no extra charge for food etc.

The only pro I can see when the funded rate is so much lower than your normal rate is filling a space and having a bit of income instead of an empty space and no income!

[Koala]

Hello ^_^

I've had my first ever enquiry for fifteen free hours for a three year old.

I know vaguely that it is around £3.50 an hour that I would get from the Government which is not that exciting as my usual fee is £6-£7.00 per hour but I don't want to tell the parent they have to 'top up' the money as then it's hardly a ~free~ fifteen hours for them and that seems a bit mean.

But. If they want to use those fifteen hours, three hours a day, like the pre-schools do, I am pretty much losing a potential full-time space for a really small amount of money. Can I say to her that she needs to use the fifteen hours over two whole days instead, possibly? She wants to start in April after her daughter turns three but I can't even really guarantee a place will exist them because I am actively looking to fill it.

I also have some vague memory of someone mentioning that you get paid extra for doing the paperwork for the free placement children? Is that true? Can anyone advise me generally on the pros and cons of taking on this kind of contract? Is the free hours only for term-time?!

Thanks!

Your rate is about right £3.50 ph - that is all you would get - NO extra for paperwork or anything!!!!
It ia term time only and make sure you get the FEE terms correct - I beleive they can be shorter than the school terms - it may only be a week of part of but still you don't want to give care away.

I understand that you can't charge extra, however, if you have two days available and she wanted to book them you could offer to deduct the fee from your rate and present her with this. This way she has asked for the 2 days and you have enabled her to access it using her 15 hrs.

Just remember though the 15 hours is exactly that so you work YOUR hourly rate out x 15 and deduct that total not what you get from the education authority, this is where its a rip off you can actually get less than your hourly rate but you are still deducting your rate off the bill and getting paid pnuts.

[Velleity]

Just remember though the 15 hours is exactly that so you work YOUR hourly rate out x 15 and deduct that total not what you get from the education authority, this is where its a rip off you can actually get less than your hourly rate but you are still deducting your rate off the bill and getting paid pnuts.

I don't understand what this part means

[QualityCare]

As above says its 15hrs free. It can be spread over 3 days 5hrs each or 5 days 3hrs each or other combination, no session can be shorter than 2.5hrs and no longer than 10hrs cannot be before 7.00am or after 7.00pm. You cannot ask parents to top up fees to your usual or ask them to pay retainer for parts of day they don't use, some childminders will offer 10hrs per week so that child comes during school holidays it is in total 570hrs per year. If you do it over 2.5or 3 days you could take on another part timer on the other 2 days.

[Koala]

I don't understand what this part means

For example - if a child comes for 3 days and takes 5 hours per day funding

If you charge £4 per hour and child comes for 5 hours that day - you deduct 5 x £4 = £20 off the bill and not 5 x £3.50 = £17.50 (or whatever the FEE funding is)

or a day rate of £44 for 10 hours you deduct 5 x £4.40 = £22.00 off the bill and not 5 x £3.50 = £17.50

And just reference it 5 hours free and not apply a price.

I hope that makes sense.

[Velleity]

No ... I'm sorry, all I can see is numbers. Not meaning to be rude.

My usual fee is £6.00. Can you tell me what that means in your example?

I'm no good with figures

[Koala]

No ... I'm sorry, all I can see is numbers. Not meaning to be rude.

My usual fee is £6.00. Can you tell me what that means in your example?

I'm no good with figures

Yes, sorry

You charge £6 per hour
if you had a child coming for 3 days for 10 hours a day That would be £180.00

and if they wanted to access 15hrs free entitlement

You would deduct 15 x £6 off your bill = £90. So their weekly bill would be £90.00



You would get 15 x £3.50 (for arguments sake) funding = £52.50

So therefor you have a shortfall of £37.50 which you have to swallow.


Is this any clearer?

[Velleity]

Got it, sorry!

She just wants only fifteen hours though.

Thanks for your patience

[Koala]

Got it, sorry!

She just wants only fifteen hours though.

Thanks for your patience

No worries,

If she is only wanting 15 hours and no extra that is tricky. And further factor in that is is only 38 weeks max a year with NO holiday pay or bh holiday pay.

I would find that even harder to swallow - it's not so bad if its over 2 days but still you will only earn 15 x £3.50 for the two days which would be £42.50 when your usual rate would be £90.

If she wants it over 5 days - you will be saving a place for the child and only earn £42.50 for the week. (I find it tricky to fill half days or odd hours in the day)

But as has been said if you have a space its better to get something rather than nothing but you are tied for at least the term which is up to 14 weeks.

[Velleity]

I think they will find it hard to get any Childminder to do the fifteen free hours only around here.

I'll do it over two days heh

I'll send an e-mail see if two days could work for her

[Koala]

yes its a big cut.

my prices are a lot cheaper than yours and the funding covers my hourly rate.

But I still have to be careful about how many children I have accessing just 15 free hours. I don't have and never have had this situation.

I have always had parents accessing it who were pre existing and doing full days with me (I only do full days) so I just deducted the 15hrs and they paid the additional for extra hours that they needed. I couldn't afford to do it any other way.

Good luck with your funded child.

[Simona]

Velleity...it is worth checking your LA Terms and Conditions for the funding which you will have had to sign
They will explain how they expect you to show that you do not charge for the 15 hrs of free education
This will be checked when they audit you to make sure you are passing on the free hours without charging...your invoice to parents must be very clear that you are not charging them at all...keep a copy each month for your records

If a child does 35 hours per week for example...your invoice should show you only charge them for 20hrs
I know there is a guidance from the DfE explaining this but I can't think right now which one it is