Shift Workers - Advice Needed

[stacieepg]

Hi there,

I have a conundrum.

I took on a child for a shift worker a while back and am happy. Lovely child, parent is pleasant, pays etc.

Initially started as a Saturday only contract for a few months but the parent has taken on more hours and we did a contract for

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday

The parent then changed it to be varying rota'd shifts....

Wk 1 - Thursday, Friday, Saturday
Wk2 - Friday, Saturday, Monday
Wk3 - Saturday, Monday Tuesday
Wk4 - Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday


And so on......



I hVe just put together the invoice in respect of December and am starting to think that this isn't all that good for me is it?

When it was a fixed Monday Tuesday Wednesday I could take on another part timer for Thursday and Friday but now it's varying days I can't actually take on another part timer can I?

What would you do in this situation?

Do you just avoid shift workers?

Am I just scuppered now and need to consider things more carefully next time


thanks

[dawn100]

There are a couple of options for shift workers, you could charge a higher hourly rate either with or without minimum hours per week, charge full fee for the days they use and half fee retainers for the days they don't use or a minimum weekly charge. It all depends on how much you need to be full every day so what I might be happy with you might not be or visa versa. I think every situation is different as it depends on how many days they need reserved each week and how many hours they will use each week.
Have you revised your contract in regards to these changes?

[stacieepg]

I have revised the contract as yet, I haven't put on the old as a week before the changes to working hours were swapped twice so I just simply forgot , this is my issue to be honest as I've only just realized taking a full time place but only here part time :-(

[Goatgirl]

Hi,
If you haven't yet discussed payment terms etc with Mum I would ask her to come in for a chat about the new hours' fees. I would explain honestly that you weren't thinking about it with your business head on when you said you would accommodate the new hours, but having realised you actually filled a full time place with a part time child you will need to up the fees accordingly - either charging a retainer for the days not needed but held for the child, charging a minimum number of hours that you could live with knowing you can't take on another child to top it up to full fees, or a higher rate for the hours used and or a combination of the above.

Mum may understandably be a bit miffed if she thinks fees will be staying the same, but hopefully if you explain that you have limited eyfs places and need to earn your entire income from them, she may come around. On the other hand she may realise the situation and be expecting her fees to rise. Good luck

[stacieepg]

Thank you yes I defo need to have a convo but I feel awkward now I don't want her to think I pulling a face one :-( xxx

[stacieepg]

I meant a face one

[smurfette]

I meant a face one

Lol try again. ! Fast one?!

Hope you get it sorted best to air it or you will just resent it xx

[Bluebell]

I agree - get it exactly right now - don't compromise - or no matter how nice she is you will resent it later.

I had a similar situation and I've tweaked a few things over the years to make it better but its still not great for me and mum has got annoyed with tweaks and is one of those that expects me to bend over backwards for her so now every time she asks a favour - no matter how reasonable - I resent it!
I resent that I am losing money and that I have handled it badly! It will come to a head because among other things she sends her child when too ill to attend and doesn't pay on time but I'm a bit gutless so still haven't sorted it!

[Bluebell]

btw do you normally work saturday? Do you charge an extra rate for it? Do you always know what saturdays you are expected to work?

If the mum had a shift that was fixed i think for childcare reasons it would be reasonable for her to ask for these fixed shifts back again!!

I know its tricky but if she needs childcare over 5 days then she needs to pay for it (- unless you find someone that is willing to have 2 days a week but doesn't care which 2 days! - maybe she has a friend looking for good childcare!)

[stacieepg]

Different days I only work Saturdays for her is 3 days a week but it's a rota now mon Tuesday Friday
Or Thursday Friday Saturday
But it's taking a full time place as it's different from every 2 weeks
:-/ x

[BuzzyB's]

I have a similar situation but I will be upping the fees for this child after Christmas, I'll be giving notice of this change this week!

[Tatjana]

I have a client like this, I have offered a 'pay as you go' contract but have explained if I have enquiries and take them on, they will just have to go with pot luck whether I can accommodate the days required.

[bunyip]

I must admit to being in 2 minds about the whole subject. Having done shift work and being mindful of how we all rely on shift workers, I'm reluctant to treat them unfavourably. OTOH I'm conscious of how difficult it is to fit them into a CM's working pattern or get enough lo's at the same time when helping a shift worker.

I think it's always very easy to say a child is "blocking" a space because of what we could be doing. But is somebody genuinely wanting that space now or in the near future?

Similarly, it's very easy for us CMs to 'play the flexibility card' when comparing ourselves with nurseries, but not actually provide the flexibility many families need.

I'm not going to moralise about what other CMs do, but I personally would feel very uncomfortable turning away a shift worker out of hand when I know I expect shift workers to be ready to meet my needs/wants when I rock up at a railway station, police station, A&E department, etc, etc.

OTOH how on Earth do we stay sustainable if we end up working longer hours with fewer lo's cos different clients need us at different times?

This is only going to become more of a challenge as parents' working patterns move ever further away from the traditional Monday to Friday 9 'til 5. We are either going to have to move with them or struggle to find clients.

[Bluebell]

I must admit to being in 2 minds about the whole subject. Having done shift work and being mindful of how we all rely on shift workers, I'm reluctant to treat them unfavourably. OTOH I'm conscious of how difficult it is to fit them into a CM's working pattern or get enough lo's at the same time when helping a shift worker.

I think it's always very easy to say a child is "blocking" a space because of what we could be doing. But is somebody genuinely wanting that space now or in the near future?

Similarly, it's very easy for us CMs to 'play the flexibility card' when comparing ourselves with nurseries, but not actually provide the flexibility many families need.

I'm not going to moralise about what other CMs do, but I personally would feel very uncomfortable turning away a shift worker out of hand when I know I expect shift workers to be ready to meet my needs/wants when I rock up at a railway station, police station, A&E department, etc, etc.

OTOH how on Earth do we stay sustainable if we end up working longer hours with fewer lo's cos different clients need us at different times?

This is only going to become more of a challenge as parents' working patterns move ever further away from the traditional Monday to Friday 9 'til 5. We are either going to have to move with them or struggle to find clients.

Bunyip - This was exactly my sentiments when I started - I have worked loads of different shifts so understand completely and I have been so flexible and accomodating. For some of these parents it has worked but for 1 particular parent it has been a nightmare!
having tried to bend over backwards to accomodate someone who just then completely took the mick out of me I have begun to resent them (yes its the same parents I am always moaning about) They would never tell me when I was expected to work, resent having to pay for their 5 hours a day, were only ever charged for what they used despite me keeping additional days available for them, only ever used half a day which I then couldn't fill the morning. These parents have had it much better than a normal 9-5 parent who wanted to swop a day to a childs illness or changes at work probably wouldn't be able to due to my being 'full'
I think it completely depends on the parent and whether they are realistic in their expectations. Although we CAN be more flexible in certain circumstances the advantages of being a childminder is we can be flexible for our own families and lifestyles and when parents are imposing on this we have to assess what our balance is.

It is also realistic to ask parents to ask their employers for shifts that accommodate their childcare needs. If they work in a large institution like a hospital or factory then it should be easier to accommodate. SO if they are working shifts and need to take a turn for weekend shifts then that is fair enough but if they are only working 3 days a week why does t have to be across 6 days??!
to expect a childminder to lose a 3rd of their income by leaving an empty space on the day they don't come is a huge sacrifice that could be more easily absorbed financially by a nursery.

I also believe that if you are working a saturday you should charge extra - you will most likely only have that one child - why should you work a saturday for only £3.50 an hour?
I didn't charge a premium for my saturdays and my 'one a month' ended up being very frequent until I was unable to do one and she let slip she was losing 'good money' on a saturday. (ie I had agreed to work one saturday a month - she took advantage and was then p**** off that I couldn't do one due to my own family commitments!)
As a shift worker I had assumed that she was on a flat rate and that was not the case at all! I also felt I'd been taken for a ride - albeit my own assumptions that they had not corrected when I discussed it with them! I had told them that I didn't believe in charging them a higher rate when they wouldn't be earning anything extra as I had never earned a premium for working weekends.

If you do it then make very sure you are doing it on a trial basis or one that will be reassessed regularly every 3 months to make sure you are both still finding it workable. Like Bunyip said if you are turning away full-timers because you can't accommodate them it would be quite frustrating for you.

PS I think that exceptional circumstances when accommodating children should absolutely apply to this kind of situation. Its a shame it only applies to continuity of care. Had you already filled the 2 other days you would be able to do the shift workers child as an extra 1 but if you accommodate her you won't be able to fill those 2 days.

**unless your children on the other days decide to extend their days.....

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I would charge 3 full days plus a 50% retainer for the other 2 days. This would give me 4 days pay per week. I think that is flexible.

[stacieepg]

That's what I've done and have explained to the parent who is fully onboard and understanding and hunks it's more than reasonable.

[Tms]

Hi I have 2 shift workers (as I am near airport) and do rolling shifts so work 7 days a week 6am til 9pm ..... they are both part time workers but I did the following as not many minders will do the hours/days...

They pay one flat per hour rate which is higher than a normal 9-5 mon-fr*****s rate ..... as they take up 1 full time place they both pay min hours example to allow for this ....

I have 1 child 5 hours per day (shifts variable anytime between 630am-9pm) on 4 on 4 off basis, I charge flat rate (mon-sun inc bank holidays (excl 25/26th dec) ) 8.50gbp/hour based on min 100 hours per month basic (basic month GB850 per month no matter if they use the full hours or not) I charge for any hours over the 100 hours at the flat rate (which to be honest they have not done yet) which they are noted on there monthly invoice and pay within 3 days of receiving invoice. I also get 20 days paid holidays per year.
Parent happy to pay this as they cannot get anyone else in area who does hours/day and are flexible so we negotiated contract which suits both parties....parents often if one off at weekend I wont have child so more often than not I don't have at weekends (had Lo for 1 year and have only had on sunday twice and Saturday 4 times)but have to say as I am flexible parents are really happy and to be honest are really good to work with

having 2 shift workers can mean sometimes I can have 2 weeks where I may have 1 or both every day but they are only here short days, then I may end up with 4 or more days in a row, also both know there shifts 1 year in advance so I can plan easily and the only changes are not often and only perhaps start time, also means I can plan holidays in advance easily.... the 2 kids mean I get paid as much as having 4 full time kids so I benefit greatly, money, more time to get other things done and my son and husband still gets lots more of my time with me so does not feel my job is taking over!

I think if you have shift workers you need to be very flexible and make sure that what you agree with them benefits you (it will benefit them if you will have the child as not many minders like shift workers hours)