returning deposit

[Taz74]

Hello all,

Just wanted to know if I got this right... If a parent gave me £460 as a deposit at the start of the contract, do I return £460 at the end even if the hours of the final month worked is less than £460 (it's £350). Just want to make sure I have this right. And if I do, will it effect my expenditure with the Tax man as I read somewhere it's fraud to give parents money back. Hope this ll makes sense.

Thanks in advance!

Taz

[CLL]

If you are holding onto the full deposit until the last day and they have paid you everything they owe up to date then you will give them it all back. The fraud comments were when parents wanted cash given back to them after paying in childcare vouchers.

[hectors house]

Is this an enquiry for future reference or is this a parent who is currently working out notice period? You currently have £460 which was given as a deposit, so when this child leaves you need to give this money back, less any money owed for the month, so if monthly bill is £350, then you still will need to pay the extra £90.

It is only fraud if the parent has overpaid you using childcare vouchers, you wouldn't be able to give them the overpaid money direct as parent won't have paid the tax on it - but as your parent has paid you I presume with cash or cheque then this won't be a problem.

I give parents a receipt for deposits but don't put it through my books until they have used it for childcare - so in your case I would just enter £350 for month through accounts as income, and pay the £90 back.

Or you could enter through £460 as income - then less expenses of £90 of paying balance of deposit back

I always keep deposits in a "deposit account" that way I haven't spend the money - it isn't technically mine until they have used that amount in childcare or if they break the contract it becomes mine by default, or if I need to cancel the contract before child has started I can just pay it back from deposit account.

[rickysmiths]

I do the same as Hectors House.

I take a four weeks fees Deposit however it states in my Contract it is to be used for the Four Weeks Notice period.

If a parent never changes their hours then it is simple because the four weeks fees deposit is the same as the four weeks notice period.

In my contracts I have a four week notice period in writing for any contractual changes to take effect. So if a parent reduces their days/hours at the end of this four weeks I return any difference in the Deposit and issue a new receipt for the new deposit for the lower amount. I also do this if hours are increased so the Deposit reflects the fees and will be correct for the 4 weeks notice. Still with me!!!

The only time this rule changes is in the first six months of my Contract including before the Contract starts.

To give a bit of background to the situation I found myself in and why I have done this. Nearly 3 years ago I had, very sadly, to give a long standing mindee (had her for 5 years) notice because of the school she ended up going to. She had been full time 8 to 6. No problem with all of that and as it goes I had another child start immediately 4 days a week so all good. I also at that time had siblings who I had had for 4 years also 5 days a week 7 to 5pm. See the picture 3 very stable children full time for a long time with others coming and going around them.

Anyhow the other full time family were happy and not leaving, fast forward to the feb and they were giving notice because of relocating 300 miles away due to work So all my full timers gone within 3 months!

In the following 3 years I have only just (beginning of Sept) had another full timer. I have had a large turn over of children and a lot of odd days, half days etc all messy and until the recent one no full time inquiries. A lot of the families would book 5 days and within a week had reduced it to 4 or 3 saying they had now got the hours from their employer or Auntie Flo was taking over or they had now got the days they wanted at Nursery. In other words I was being used as a 'stop gap'.

I got very demoralised and fed up. It costs to set up all the paperwork, settling in, carrying out interviews etc. So I got tough

I now have that if hours/days are reduced in the first six months or before the Contract starts in full, they loose that % of their Deposit and if they leave me within six months they forfeit their Deposit and have to pay for the Notice period and if I haven't received payment for the Notice Period when it starts then I reserve the right to no have the child during the Notice Period.

I realise this is a harsh Fees Policy but I have to say it has worked. I stopped getting the 'Stop Gap' parents who were signing full contracts and walking away, a few of my local colleagues are still complaining about such parents (), I had a parent reserve a full time place to start in Sept, the inquiries I am getting are for more hours and days so it would seem I am being taken more seriously and regarded more professionally and it is discouraging the previous time waters. Don't get me wrong I do advertise that I will take ad hoc or short term care but of course I know what I am taking on and only take it on if it fits in.

You have to be tough to take a stance like this over your business but to me that is what business is all about. I refuse to be 'used' or taken for a fool. I adore my job and I put my all into it and I will go the extra few miles for my loyal families who work with me and use me because they like me and the care I offer them.

Off my Soap Box now

Oh I should say I had an interview yesterday for two sibling full time starting after Christmas. So fingers crossed they really liked me, if they lived next door they would have signed on the spot but they live the other side of town (3-4 miles) but the tube station is very close to me so Fingers crossed they were lovely. It would mean a bit of stability back after 3 years of ups and downs.

[Taz74]

Thank you all for your quick responses. It all makes sense now. As I get paid in arrears then the deposit will pay for the final month and any extra from the deposit I pay back.

Rickysmiths all the very best for your potential mindees. I'm in a similar situation in that all the children I have are part time and would love a full timer. The chap I'm giving notice to is a before and after schoolie. It's just not working out with my own children and to be honest making me feel quite miserable. I love my job, but I think preschoolers are for me.

Thanks again everyone! xx

[rickysmiths]

Thank you all for your quick responses. It all makes sense now. As I get paid in arrears then the deposit will pay for the final month and any extra from the deposit I pay back.

Rickysmiths all the very best for your potential mindees. I'm in a similar situation in that all the children I have are part time and would love a full timer. The chap I'm giving notice to is a before and after schoolie. It's just not working out with my own children and to be honest making me feel quite miserable. I love my job, but I think preschoolers are for me.

Thanks again everyone! xx

Just a point I am always paid in advance. I would never take on a family who asked to pay in arrears.

Thanks for the luck and good luck to you. You do have to work with your family. I started when my two were nearly 2 and 11 months. That 11 month old was 19yrs old yesterday! I found my childminding changed over the year. I love the under fours but I have just taken on an after school 9yr old first time I have had one over 6 for ages and it is quite nice. he is lovely and I am enjoying playing board games etc with him lol!