Calculating regular monthly fees

**JumpingJacks** · 18-01-2013, 06:30 PM

A parent has asked to pay the same amount each month as needs to be set up through a voucher company, for those of you that do this, how do you work out the monthly payments?

My thinking is 52 x weekly fee - 4 weeks at half fee for my holiday - bank holidays and closed days (ie christmas eve, christmas and boxing day, new years day.)
Then divide by 12?

Thanks

**cathtee** · 18-01-2013, 06:36 PM

I write down each weeks fees that I know I will have lo, and then devide the total by 12 and thats the figure for each month, double check
it though as I made a mistake luckily noticed before I told mom how much it was. Then if for any reason you cannot have lo and in your
contract you don't have payment for you can refund this in the month it occurs, although I think we are not supposed to pay them back
any cash(if paid by voucher) as they won't have paid tax on the figure.

This way is good especially if they are tto as you get money all year round.

**Bennie** · 18-01-2013, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by JumpingJacks

A parent has asked to pay the same amount each month as needs to be set up through a voucher company, for those of you that do this, how do you work out the monthly payments?

My thinking is 52 x weekly fee - 4 weeks at half fee for my holiday - bank holidays and closed days (ie christmas eve, christmas and boxing day, new years day.)
Then divide by 12?

Thanks

They can only buy 243£ each in vouchers per month and only if the company they work for is in a scheme, are they aware of this you may not have to work out ....

**TAZ** · 18-01-2013, 07:55 PM

I have parents paying through various voucher schemes. They all seem to basically have a ' voucher account' from which they can organise a payment to an approved childcare scheme (direct into bank account). This does not have to be the same amount each month. They could set up a fixed amount each month but then alter it if extra or less is required each month.

If you havn't used vouchers before it's worth noting that it takes 3-5 days between parent actioning payment & the money arriving in your bank account so if you need the money by a certain date then ensure payment is set up for a week before this!

**rickysmiths** · 18-01-2013, 08:42 PM

A parent is allowed a max of £243 each via the Voucher scheme but I have had parents who top the money up and I have been paid up to £700 per month all from the voucher company, not sure how it works. However to do this they have to pay the same every month.

If you charge 1/2 fee for 4 weeks then x you weekly fee by 50 and divide by 12 that will give you an even amount for each month. If you don't charge for BH then there are 8 of them in a year. I would so add up what the fees for 8 days is and take it from the total above and then divide by 12.

When you have done this and decided when your 'year' will be (mine is 1st Jan to 31st Dec), then you need to be very clear with the parent about that.

Then you need to list each month on an A4 sheet of paper or a spread sheet with each month down the page twice side by side and with the number of weeks in each month. Then each month note down the actual fees and the fees paid and keep a running total of the difference each month. Some months the parent will ow you and other months you will ow them. It is important that you both know what this figure is every month because depending on when the parent leaves you you may ow them some money and they may ow you some. So you will need to make sure you have that money available if the need arose and the parents does as well.

I will only ever do this for a parent who attends full time all year. If hours are anything else the differences as the months go by can be large especially for for example a school child who is before and after school and full time in the holidays, if they left you at the wrong time and hadn't used their long summer holiday you would potentially have to repay a large chunk of fees.

I hope that makes sense?

You also need to be crystal clear with the parent that for any repayment made by you if any of it forms part of the £243 Voucher money you can not refund this direct to the parent. Because they have not paid Tax or NI on it it would be fraud for you to return it direct to them. You have to return the money to the voucher company who return it via the employer so the Tax and NI are deducted. It is very easy returning money this way, I have done it a few times. It is vital that the parent has understood this and I get them to sign a letter that explains it.

**funemnx** · 18-01-2013, 08:46 PM

I too keep a running total of the balance so that in the event of the contract ending or hours changing you know where you are

**Lilylulu** · 19-01-2013, 08:22 AM

I agree with rickysmiths - we have been in the position of having to pay back a large chunk of cash when a parent left just before the summer holiday - we have a few that have the 15 hours free funding with us so we work out annualised fees so that they pay the same throughout the year and dont struggle with the higher fees when its not funded through the holidays.
This is all advantageous for the parents, they know how much to pay every month, it may be better for you as once it is set up you don't have to do further invoices for the rest of the year - HOWEVER - if they leave thru' the year or they change their hours then its a pain to rework it all. A year is a long time too - lots of things change - maternity leaves, new job, moving house etc. We are considering an admin charge for changes to the annual fee arrangement mid year.

**JumpingJacks** · 19-01-2013, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

A parent is allowed a max of £243 each via the Voucher scheme but I have had parents who top the money up and I have been paid up to £700 per month all from the voucher company, not sure how it works. However to do this they have to pay the same every month.

If you charge 1/2 fee for 4 weeks then x you weekly fee by 50 and divide by 12 that will give you an even amount for each month. If you don't charge for BH then there are 8 of them in a year. I would so add up what the fees for 8 days is and take it from the total above and then divide by 12.

When you have done this and decided when your 'year' will be (mine is 1st Jan to 31st Dec), then you need to be very clear with the parent about that.

Then you need to list each month on an A4 sheet of paper or a spread sheet with each month down the page twice side by side and with the number of weeks in each month. Then each month note down the actual fees and the fees paid and keep a running total of the difference each month. Some months the parent will ow you and other months you will ow them. It is important that you both know what this figure is every month because depending on when the parent leaves you you may ow them some money and they may ow you some. So you will need to make sure you have that money available if the need arose and the parents does as well.

I will only ever do this for a parent who attends full time all year. If hours are anything else the differences as the months go by can be large especially for for example a school child who is before and after school and full time in the holidays, if they left you at the wrong time and hadn't used their long summer holiday you would potentially have to repay a large chunk of fees.

I hope that makes sense?

You also need to be crystal clear with the parent that for any repayment made by you if any of it forms part of the £243 Voucher money you can not refund this direct to the parent. Because they have not paid Tax or NI on it it would be fraud for you to return it direct to them. You have to return the money to the voucher company who return it via the employer so the Tax and NI are deducted. It is very easy returning money this way, I have done it a few times. It is vital that the parent has understood this and I get them to sign a letter that explains it.

Thanks you very much for this, all very clear and very helpful! Will sort it all out tomorrow. Much appreciated

**JumpingJacks** · 19-01-2013, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Bennie

They can only buy 243£ each in vouchers per month and only if the company they work for is in a scheme, are they aware of this you may not have to work out ....

I already review vouchers for most of my children, this particular child's parents use a different voucher company each, one parent pays the set £253 the others changes each month. Apparently to change it each month it's more hassle than it's worth. Apparently causing the delay, hence the wanting to sort a standard monthly amount.

**rickysmiths** · 19-01-2013, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by JumpingJacks

I already review vouchers for most of my children, this particular child's parents use a different voucher company each, one parent pays the set £253 the others changes each month. Apparently to change it each month it's more hassle than it's worth. Apparently causing the delay, hence the wanting to sort a standard monthly amount.

What a pain. Does it change because his pay changes each month? I can't think of any other reason. I haven't ever experienced this before. I have had parents put less in each month but the amount has always stayed the same.

**JumpingJacks** · 20-01-2013, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

What a pain. Does it change because his pay changes each month? I can't think of any other reason. I haven't ever experienced this before. I have had parents put less in each month but the amount has always stayed the same.

Excuse iPhone typos! I probably wasn't very clear! Say for example fees are £390 one month, mum has £243 set up regardless and dad pays the remainder by voucher, next month it's £410 dad has to change his voucher amount to pay the extra iyswim? Dad says he has to start the whole process every time.

**claireLouise** · 20-01-2013, 11:06 PM

It soumds like your parent is using the voucher scheme as an excuse because it is easier for him to set up a regular payment. I invoice my parents monthly and am registered with various schemes and this has never been a problem.. It is your business and you need to do what is best for you if this inconveniences a parent that is sad but his problem not yours.

**Helcatt** · 20-01-2013, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by claireLouise

It soumds like your parent is using the voucher scheme as an excuse because it is easier for him to set up a regular payment. I invoice my parents monthly and am registered with various schemes and this has never been a problem.. It is your business and you need to do what is best for you if this inconveniences a parent that is sad but his problem not yours.

I agree with this

I have a child I collect from nursery, term time only. Her fee's vary each month and mum has no problem changing the amount and making sure it arrives on time

I invoiced today for Feb, so gives plenty of time for her to change it

HX

**rickysmiths** · 21-01-2013, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by JumpingJacks

Excuse iPhone typos! I probably wasn't very clear! Say for example fees are £390 one month, mum has £243 set up regardless and dad pays the remainder by voucher, next month it's £410 dad has to change his voucher amount to pay the extra iyswim? Dad says he has to start the whole process every time.

I see. Yes I can see that being a pain for him, voucher companies are really set up for set amounts. I would add up the fees as I have previously explained. then the Dad can fix is voucher payments.

Make it clear to the parents that as all the fees are paid via Vouchers all refunds must be made that way for example if you are off sick. You could carry over the over payment if the parents are willing. However you are going to need to keep a very accurate monthly total and I would give the parents a copy each month and get them to sign your copy so you know exactly where you are when they leave you. Also so you are both very clear at that point of any payments that will be required by either of you.

If your fees vary each month then maybe the way to go would be to agree an average amount work the fees out so they are the same each month for the Voucher Company and agree that the father just pays any outstanding balance each month.

**JumpingJacks** · 23-01-2013, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

I see. Yes I can see that being a pain for him, voucher companies are really set up for set amounts. I would add up the fees as I have previously explained. then the Dad can fix is voucher payments.

Make it clear to the parents that as all the fees are paid via Vouchers all refunds must be made that way for example if you are off sick. You could carry over the over payment if the parents are willing. However you are going to need to keep a very accurate monthly total and I would give the parents a copy each month and get them to sign your copy so you know exactly where you are when they leave you. Also so you are both very clear at that point of any payments that will be required by either of you.

If your fees vary each month then maybe the way to go would be to agree an average amount work the fees out so they are the same each month for the Voucher Company and agree that the father just pays any outstanding balance each month.

Thanks for your help! All sorted now. New contract in place for set amount to review fees every 3 months and if either party owed then invoice or voucher refund will be issued.

thanks again