Late paying parents :-(

[Childminder in Kent]

But that's clearly not working now so I would have another chat to them and suggest this as a way forward.

Miffy xx

True!
Yes, I will suggest it if it gets that far. Not sure if im just going to give notice :-(

[Bridey]

Apart from when the child was ill (and, if I remember correctly you hadn't given them the invoice?? I may be mixing you up with someone else on that one, I'm not sure) they have paid each week. Yes, its one or two days late but they have paid. So far they are 24 hours late but, it seems, they will probably cough up once you have reminded them.

Some families are just scatty like that. They don't mean to be but they just are. If, apart from this, you like the child and enjoy working for them then personally I'd just get on with it and resign myself to asking them for the money each week. Either that or change to monthly payment so they are only late once a month! There are some really awful parents/children out there doing much worse things to minders than paying them 2 days late

If you don't like the child and don't enjoy working for them then terminate the contract.

Just do SOMETHING because you are getting yourself stressed on a weekly basis and talking to us about it each week isn't achieving anything. Its them you need to be saying this to.

[Childminder in Kent]

Bridey,
Yes that is correct - It was me. I have always given an invoice except for when the child was ill.
You are right I need to do SOMETHING - Sitting worrying each week over whether I am going to have to confront them or not is causing me to stress every week about it!

[jaswinder bedi]

Hi, you do learn with mistake, I did too one parent disappeared for the whole year sake of paying my six week payment just taking sympathy oh I paid off bill, rent, partner lost his work so and so.. On the fourth week of childcare i gave her notice I can't provide child are until you pay my past payment as its going out of hand, come back only if do my payment. But.... She never did!!!

As I am boss in my own home I decide how to take the payment, take it or leave it is harsh but trust me this trick works sometimes..... When you sign the contract you must tell them. I prefer you to do the payment begining of the month or week.........one or two days you could be flexible if they give reasonable reason, you must explain that this is your POLICY.... Hope this works....x

[Bridey]

Bridey,
Yes that is correct - It was me. I have always given an invoice except for when the child was ill.
You are right I need to do SOMETHING - Sitting worrying each week over whether I am going to have to confront them or not is causing me to stress every week about it!

Its not fair that you go through this stress every week. It must affect your enjoyment of being a childminder and I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. Good luck with however steps you decide to take. You know where we are x

[izzy23]

I understand Brideys point about payment only being a couple of days late, I do however disagree with letting them get away with it so to speak, a couple of days can easily and soon change into four or five days or more in my experience, I think if they sign a contract with terms they need to adhere to it. I cant imagine this households reaction if say, my partner was informed by his employers that they'd be "paying him a couple of days late this month". I guess I am saying its matter of principle and if you don't stick to them you risk further liberty being taken by this family. Its happened to me before.
I'd change to monthly payments if possible, if they can only do weekly then stick with it but definitely request payment to be made by standing order/bank transfer only, give your reasons along lines of: payments made electronically mean easier traceable record of fees paid, advantageousness for both you and them so there is no confusion, if payment doesn't credit on due date, charge £5 a day late fees.
Rather than terminate straight away and lose this income, make these changes, if parents kick up a fuss or it doesn't work out, then at least you tried.

As for the NCMA advice, this is why I defected to Morton Michel a long long time ago.

[tashaleee]

Sorry Ive only quickly read through this as child coming any minute...

Can you not have a review with the parent and change to paying weekly in advance - inform them that if they have no cash on the first day of the week they will incur a late payment fee and no care will be provided without full payment. Explain you are a business and you have bills to pay yourself and you must be paid on time. Tell them its not working for you regarding payment but you would hate to loose them and love looking after their child - money is the part of the business you dont like discussing but sadly you need to sort this out with them.

I used to have a parent like this - once I sent them away with their child to go to get the money they had 'forgotten' yet again.... it solved it for me

[Childminder in Kent]

Thanks again for the advice all, Mum has just dropped off the child and said that she will bring my money on collection - I think she will.

I am still going to write the letter and will give that to her tomorrow - am still working on it and wont be able to do it whilst the child is here as she is only 15 months old.

[caz3007]

I would try and sit down with mum tonight and explain that you dont like asking for the money each week and in order to preserve a good working relationship, this needs to be addressed and work out how you can both go forward with it. Either that they pay by standing order or if they want to continue to pay in cash, they need to make sure its with you on Friday ready for next week. Tell her you will have to implement late fees and follow up what you have decided together in writing with both of you signing

Good luck, I know its hard doing the money side, I am sure most of us would say they hate it, but if its not working right for you, then its down to you to make it happen or at least try.

[Childminder in Kent]

Ok, deep breath - I am STILL having weekly trouble with this parent. I can't even remember now the last time I was paid on time.
I am witing a new fees policy stating that I WILL NOT accept late payments any longer, late payment fees will be charged in future. This will be a trial for 12 weeks, If things do not improve then I will be changing to monthly bank transfer only. Any parent with a problem with that will have to seek alternative childcare.
So.......... Anyone want to help me compile a firm but well worded policy??!!

[Bob]

Hi Patalexander,

Over the last few months you have asked for a solution to the problem of late payment.
Lots of people have taken the trouble to give you some very good solutions to the problem.

As you are posting, months later, still asking for a solution to the same problem it is apparent that you have not dealt with the issue effectively.
It is probably time to roll over and accept the fact that this parent is the boss.

You have been training her for months to ignore your wishes and ride roughshod over your policies and rules. Another policy will be another policy she will ignore. If you're getting the correct money, albeit late, then factor that lateness into your finances and just accept it.

If however you have decided to get this parent back under control then just have a re-read of this thread and ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT one or more of the excellent solutions which have been offered. As the parent has discovered, over the months, that you are a pushover, you will have a much tougher job dealing with this now than if you'd done it when the problem first appeared.

It may be best just to accept the situation as it is and stop getting stressed by it.

[TraceyC]

True!
Yes, I will suggest it if it gets that far. Not sure if im just going to give notice :-(

I am quite newly registered too and I have had the same problem. I take a 1month deposit up front so I am already in credit and then bill at the end of the month. When I didn't get paid, I sent a text saying "Hi everyone, just to let you know that the bill for October is now overdue - pls let me know if you need a copy of the invoice". This seemed friendly and got the point over without me having to directly say anything and a group text sounded better even though it was just sent to the one parent who hadn't paid. It worked straight away, - will see how quickly I get paid for November !! x

[Pixie dust]

I am quite newly registered too and I have had the same problem. I take a 1month deposit up front so I am already in credit and then bill at the end of the month. When I didn't get paid, I sent a text saying "Hi everyone, just to let you know that the bill for October is now overdue - pls let me know if you need a copy of the invoice". This seemed friendly and got the point over without me having to directly say anything and a group text sounded better even though it was just sent to the one parent who hadn't paid. It worked straight away, - will see how quickly I get paid for November !! x

Are you saying you always work a month behind..my parents pay a month/week in advance. I have just received payments for Dec.

[Childminder in Kent]

Bob,
Please don't make out that I have ignored everyone's suggetions - I have not at all. Unfortunatley it has just fallen upon deaf ears for this particular parent. I have made many attempts at dealing with this issue but because of my concern for the CHILD concerned, I have not given notice as yet. The child is lovely, has settled really well and gets along very well with my own son who is a similar age. I don't feel that I can just 'give up' on her because of her parents.

Tracey,
Initially I didn't really think about it and allowed payment dates etc to be 'chosen' by parents. Since I have had trouble with this parent (my first) I have made changes and don't have the same issues.
It's just hard because I know I will have to let the job go - and it's harder every week!
I changed the wording on my invoice last week (this parent pays weekly), I am hoping that will do the trick! If not I will be sitting mum down (again) to explain why I need paying on time and that this is my final 'warning'. I'll follow that up in writing too.
Good luck with yours!

[bunyip]

Ok, deep breath - I am STILL having weekly trouble with this parent. I can't even remember now the last time I was paid on time.
I am witing a new fees policy stating that I WILL NOT accept late payments any longer, late payment fees will be charged in future. This will be a trial for 12 weeks, If things do not improve then I will be changing to monthly bank transfer only. Any parent with a problem with that will have to seek alternative childcare.
So.......... Anyone want to help me compile a firm but well worded policy??!!

I don't have a 'payments policy' as such: I put the payment terms onto the contract. Mine is very simple, very strict and I make it very clear to parents that I will apply it, no messing. Payment is always in advance. No payment = no care, no exceptions. They can pay me monthly, weekly, or daily if they like, but I absolutely do not take the child until I've taken the payment. I will turn them away at the door if necessary, and all my clients know this. Those who pay by cheque or vouchers get one 'strike'. If a cheque bounces or a voucher payment is fumbled, then I suspend care until paid in cash, plus late payment fee and any charges incurred. From then on, I accept cash only.

I have no problems with this because I'm totally up front and parents know what to expect. This may sound harsh but CMs only get into arrears cos they let it happen. Simple facts frequent are harsh. People will pay first what they have to pay first, and usually base their decision on what are the consequences of delaying the payment. So if we don't have any consequences laid out, the clients see our fees as something to put off until later.

I've not read through this whole thread, but I get the impression that the OP is seeking to turn around a situation that has gone on for about 7 months. This really needs a contract review asap. Having been allowed late payments on a regular basis, the clients are probably in a position to claim the right to pay late under that contract by a legal niceity known as "custom and practice". So the best way forward will be a new contract to usher in a new start.

Hope you get this sorted, or get some better clients soon.

[Childminder in Kent]

bunyip,
Yes it is my fault - there are ways to tell me that without sounding rude and 'putting me down' thanks for doing that :-)
I accept that because I haven't implemented late charges or refused care it has continued. With regard to the refusing care - The NCMA have told me that I CANNOT refuse care otherwise I will be in breach of the contract, even thought it states fees are to be paid in advance. I haven't charged the late payment fees because - well im too soft, thats my problem I know.
As for other parents, I am full and don't have the same problem with anyone else. Of course there have been a couple of 'I forgot my purse' moments but its always been a one off and not every week/month. I made sure I was clear on the terms of their contract and my policies upon signing up. The parent in question was my 'first' so initially I found it difficult to confront mum about it. It seems that we have a chat and it gets better for a while, then it lapses again - and around we go again. :-(
The last invoice stated that I WILL now be implementing charges, and I will - It's payday today. I will soon know!
Pat

[bunyip]

I'll address the practical point first before trying to work out what appears to be the more emotional nature this thread seems to have taken on lately.

I am confused as to why NCMA have advised a CM against suspending care. I am not disputing the facts as stated by the OP. I am confused for the following reasons:_

1. A senior NCMA member advised me at a regional forum this was recommended practice and should be included in all contracts.
2. I checked this advice by means of a call to the NCMA legal team who confirmed this is perfectly legal so long as it is covered by the contract.
3. The NCMA legal team referred me to note 23 within the most recently published contract forms. This states, "parent(s)/guardian(s) accept that the registered childminder may suspend their services and refuse care for the child until all fees due are paid." They additionally advised me that individual contracts must be written in such a way as to maintain the right to refuse care, and the terms enforced so as not to become redundant clauses through 'custom and practice'.

Pat: I accept at face value what you state, ie. that NCMA told you the opposite. I can only think that one/some/all of the following may apply:-

1. The person at NCMA did not know what they were talking about. Whilst not entirely common, this is certainly quite possible IME. It would not be the first time.
2. You may have spoken to a different legal team earlier in the year. I get the impression that NCMA has changed its legal team sometime recently in response to member's comments that they were unhappy with the previous lot.
3. You and I may be using different contract forms. I have the most recent ones: the ones with the photographic cover and the pale blue panel at the bottom. These replaced the previous design, which had an artwork cover. AFAIK the substance of the contracts was changed as well as the cover, so this may account for any differences. I cannot be categorical about this, as I have only ever used the new edition.
4. I have not read your contracts. Whatever you and I write into our respective contracts will of course be different in many ways/details. NCMA will have advised each of us on the basis of our own individual terms. This may or may not have a bearing on this matter.

As with my previous post (and, I may add, the preceding 4 pages written by numerous members) I have taken the time to write this in an effort to help. This (and the previous 70+ replies) is certainly not intended to offend or put down.

I do genuinely want to help, as I'm sure other members have tried to do also. And I genuinely hope this gets sorted out to your satisfaction, as I wished in my previous post.

[Childminder in Kent]

Bunyip,
Thanks for that. It was a while ago that I spoke to the NCMA so it quite possibly was beore the change of legal team. I do have the most recent contract forms but didn't write anything (other than what is printed on it) regarding not accepting children before payment is made. I have written a late payment fee on there.

I know that people (including yourself) are trying to help. I was/am upset by a comment made by someone else insinuating that I was asking for help but ignoring people and then asking the same thing again. I just came here for help. I 'came back' after so long in order to get some advice on writing a 'stronger worded' policy so that I don't have this problem in future - I thought maybe my current one was a bit too 'friendly', trying to keep positive relationships but maybe im trying too hard if you know what I mean?
In all honesty this wont last much longer because i've already decided that if payment is late this week, I will be giving my notice in.
Anyway I won't be able to respond for a while as I have a child arriving soon.
Thankyou for your reply.

[bunyip]

No worries Pat.

I honestly think everyone who has responded has done so in an attempt to help, and no-one is trying to be rude or put you down. IMHO, I don't believe any of the previous posts have been intended as anything but helpful. But it can be difficult for us to say hard things in writing without giving the wrong impression. That applies just the same whether it's writing a difficult letter to a parent or getting a difficult message across on the forum. Heaven knows, I've made enough mistakes, so I tend to go easy on interpreting other members' intentions.

I had prepared a much longer reply, but decided not to post/send it in case it's misunderstood by readers. I'm aware these things can very easily be taken the wrong way and look either bossy or patronising. As I say, written media is so hard to get just right, without the human element of facial expression, tone of voice, and body language that are so essential to proper communication.

Oh, and don't forget to mind the gender gap. We males do tend to be very direct and straight out with things: so we very often forget to use that sympathetic/empathetic thing that is so important but for some reason just doesn't seem to be part of our internal 'wiring'.

Do remember that you have the strength to deal with the parents, just as you have the strength and obvious ability to deal with the children. In fact, the way we deal with the whole family is just another part of caring for the child and role modelling good relationships. 'Good relationships' should be 'equal relationships' - whether that's between partners, spouses, friends, or business/client relations.

When it comes to the forum, I try to remember this when I'm reading somebody else's posts and am not always sure how to take them:-
"A friend is one to whom you may pour out all the contents of your heart, chaff and grain together, knowing that the gentlest of hands will take and sift it, keeping what is worth saving and, with a breath of kindness, blow the rest away...."

(Ok, we don't all have gentle hands, but I'm sure all the members mean well.)

All the best,
bunyip

[littlegremlins]

Hello

Having read this whole thread and also having been paid late by one particular parent in the earlier days of our contract, I understand and sympathise. I do believe, correct me if I'm wrong, if the parent was paying on time you would not wish to terminate this contract - so therefore, the relationship you have with the child is good but not the relationship with the parents.

My advice, for what it's worth: Think about what it is you are fearing most about this situation, you have done the 'written' thing and that hasn't worked...I would say the parents know you are a soft and caring person, but unfortunately they are using that to their advantage. I would send them a text, or call them and ask that they make time to have a 5 minute chat with you when they collect. I feel this needs a verbal face-to-face solution. Tell them that you love looking after the child and wish to continue that relationship but the constant late payment of fees is now making you resentful and you do not like or wish to continue feeling like that. Tell them that they signed and agreed to pay weekly in advance and you wish them to honour this contract. Tell them that by paying on the agreed day at the agreed time they will avoid the need for paperwork reminders and possible late payment charges. I strongly advise you to do this as a chat on collection and not by paper any more. You could at the end of this chat say you will be making a note of this conversation for information purposes.

Good luck.