BIG PROBLEM Child Ratios p.51 - Ofsted now say

**susi513** · 21-05-2008, 02:50 PM

P.51 B:Childminders 2nd bullet point.

"where four- and five-year-old children only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, they may be classed as children over the age of five for the purposes of the adult:child ratio"

Ofsted are now saying this is to be taken literally. Ie, 4 year olds will only count as an over five on the days they are with the childminder before and/or after a normal school day. Any day they don't attend a normal school day - school holidays, training days, snow days, staff strikes etc they will revert to an under five.

I've had an email from them today confirming this. I contacted them because I'd heard a representative from Ofsted said this at a recent NCMA conference.

Was it anyone one on this forum that got emails/letters last year saying that the EYFS would not be changing the way child ratios worked? Ofsted do say its STILL in the consulation stage and it appears there may be another revised version in July.

So please can everybody contact Ofsted and make your views known. Also if you are a member of NCMA please ask them too.

I've pointed out that childminders will not be able to hold open both an under fives place and an over fives place for one child's fees and parents will not be able to pay for two places either. So that leaves the option of having to obtain a variation (assuming we still can?) for each school holiday. Which won't help people with more than one mindee in reception class.

Thanks
sorry to be bearer of bad news, thought this issue was resolved long ago

Susi

**Blaze** · 21-05-2008, 02:52 PM

Your not the bearer I was...I posted earlier...but your post is more comprihensive!

Pipsqueak · 21-05-2008, 03:01 PM

HAve emailed Ofsted and NCMA

**Banana** · 21-05-2008, 03:02 PM

is this a joke?

do ofsted know their **** from thier elbow?

x

**SimplyLucy** · 21-05-2008, 03:10 PM

Oh my goodness, I have two 4 year old starting reception class in September that won't be 5 until Feb.

One of those is my own son. I guess this means I'll be unable to fill his space as an under 5 until next February..........I'm going to lose a fortune because of this as i'll have to hold the other under 5 space open for the other 4 year old to use in the holidays.

Pipsqueak · 21-05-2008, 03:19 PM

This is the reply I have had from NCMA (blimey I only emailed them about 1/2hr ago)

Hi ****

We are waiting for clarification of this as well, we have had a lot of members contacting us. I am awaiting for a response and as soon as I have it I will contact you.

Kind regards

Sue McWilliams
Customer Service Administrator

**Blaze** · 21-05-2008, 03:23 PM

Wasn't it also the case that they are classed as under 5 until the September following their 5th birthday? So a child say who is 5 end of Sept 2008 would still be classed in holidays etc as under 5 untill 1st September 2009. Think the whole thing is mad!

**cloud9** · 21-05-2008, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

This is the reply I have had from NCMA (blimey I only emailed them about 1/2hr ago)

Hi ****

We are waiting for clarification of this as well, we have had a lot of members contacting us. I am awaiting for a response and as soon as I have it I will contact you.

Kind regards

Sue McWilliams
Customer Service Administrator

Nightmare! you'll have to let us know if they do contact you.

**sarah707** · 21-05-2008, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Blaze

So a child say who is 5 end of Sept 2008 would still be classed in holidays etc as under 5 untill 1st September 2009.

Yes that's my understanding of the wording...

It's all about eyfs not the age of the child....

While they are in nursery or reception class at school, no matter when they are 5, they are classed as being within the eyfs.

So whether they are 4 or 5 it doesn't matter and when their birthday is doesn't matter...

All that matters is that until the Sept after they finish eyfs they are not classed as 5!

How very silly!

Pipsqueak · 21-05-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by sarahnev707

Yes that's my understanding of the wording...

It's all about eyfs not the age of the child....

While they are in nursery or reception class at school, no matter when they are 5, they are classed as being within the eyfs.

So whether they are 4 or 5 it doesn't matter and when their birthday is doesn't matter...

All that matters is that until the Sept after they finish eyfs they are not classed as 5!

How very silly!

oh ****** hell. -
Should we all refuse to take on 4 and 5 year olds then???? What a farce

**susi513** · 21-05-2008, 05:58 PM

Sorry Blaze, I did look first but missed your thread.

God I'm thick, you're right. I hadn't realised it applies to the 5 year olds as well NIGHTMARE!!

Didn't they reassure everyone last year that this wouldn't be changing under the EYFS? Or was I dreaming?!!!!!

Its been suggested that its all just to create sufficient demand for extended schools

TBH can't see any other logical reason/benefit to anyone.

Susi

**sarah707** · 21-05-2008, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by susi513

Didn't they reassure everyone last year that this wouldn't be changing under the EYFS? Or was I dreaming?!!!!! Susi

If you were dreaming then so was I

**flora** · 21-05-2008, 06:24 PM

What a pain in the proverbial

they could not run a p*** up in a brewery could they ???????

**sarah707** · 21-05-2008, 08:01 PM

Just spotted this!

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/2300/534692

They're not impressed over there either!

**wendywu** · 21-05-2008, 08:44 PM

Right so a child who is 5 is not 5 and does not go into our 5 and 8 bracket

My DH always says that they are making it as difficult as possible for CM as they want to phase us out, and make every one use a nursery. I am beginning to think he is right.

**breezy** · 21-05-2008, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by wendywu

Right so a child who is 5 is not 5 and does not go into our 5 and 8 bracket

My DH always says that they are making it as difficult as possible for CM as they want to phase us out, and make every one use a nursery. I am beginning to think he is right.

I'm afraid I'm beginning to feel like that too, either that or they just dont take us into account at all when they dream up these things

**Chimps Childminding** · 21-05-2008, 09:18 PM

So am i right in thinking that the little boy I look after who is starting school in September and will be 5 in December 2008, won't count as being 5 during the holidays until September 2009? sorry if i am just being really dense here but I have someone wanting his place as from September and as I assumed he would move up into the next bracket (5 - 8) then I didn't see a problem!

**sarah707** · 21-05-2008, 09:21 PM

Yes... that's how things stand at the moment...

I would write to Ofsted, explain your problem while there's still plenty of time...

I am sure you would get a holiday variation

**Chimps Childminding** · 21-05-2008, 09:27 PM

Thanks Sarah - thought that was the case but my head's a shed these days so just wanted to run it by you all! Can feel a letter coming on - but will leave it until the week-end when I can concentrate better (well maybe!)

**miffy** · 21-05-2008, 09:46 PM

I wish Ofsted would apply some common sense and logic here - we can't switch a child from one age group to another and back again depending on whether they are in school or on holiday.

Off to bury my head in the sand - let me know when it's all sorted

miffy xx