BIG PROBLEM Child Ratios p.51 - Ofsted now say

Pipsqueak · 22-05-2008, 08:50 PM

I really don't think we are going to get clarification on this anytime soon. NCMA have emailed me back and have basically said they are awaiting confirmation from Ofsted about this come Sept

**susi513** · 23-05-2008, 07:32 AM

I had the same email Sue. I emailed back and thanked them for explaining the current situation under the National Standards, but as the National Standards are being replaced by EYFS from September I would appreciate confirmation of the situation under EYFS.

And then I got the alarming answer that prompted me to start this thread.

So anyone who hasn't already done so, please contact DCSF and share your views and hopefully the powers that be will come to their senses.

**Tatia** · 23-05-2008, 12:31 PM

I asked my development worker (from NCMA) about this today and she said NCMA have said clearly that it will not change at all, things will stand as they are (4 yr olds in Reception will count as 5s even during hols) and as soon as they turn 5, not from end of Reception year, they will go into 5-8 bracket.

This is the answer I wanted to hear so I'm going with that!

**allinatiz** · 24-05-2008, 11:18 AM

I got my Who Minds mag this morning and in it it says that "Ofsted has confirmed that the ratios are based on the normal school term, and that during holidays, children who would otherwise be at school will continue to be classed as aged over 5"

**ajs** · 24-05-2008, 11:30 AM

sorry i haven't had time to read all of the replies

BUT
according to my issue of who minds the ncma magazine there is nothing to worry about and rising 5s who are in full time school are counted as 5 year olds during the holidays (or so they say this week, who knows what they will say next week)

panic over

**katickles** · 24-05-2008, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by ajs

sorry i haven't had time to read all of the replies

BUT
according to my issue of who minds the ncma magazine there is nothing to worry about and rising 5s who are in full time school are counted as 5 year olds during the holidays (or so they say this week, who knows what they will say next week)

panic over

I was just going to write this as I two have just been reading the magazine. Hopefully everybody will relax again now - until they change there minds again that is

**Gherkin** · 25-05-2008, 12:19 PM

I am hoping that the Who Minds is right. My son starts school in september and he will only be 4 and 3 weeks so if they scrap the rising 5's I will be screwed - have only just been covering my bills since I started and really need the extra under 5's space to help cushion the income.

**susi513** · 26-05-2008, 08:25 AM

Can anybody scan me a copy of the NCMA article please? I''ll email it to Ofsted and see if they will confirm its true.

As there's nothing on either the NCMA or Teachernet to say there have been any changes I'm not relaxing just yet.

I want to see the paragraph in the EYFS amended so its absolutely clear.

Thanks

Sue
sue@sueschildminding.co.uk

**susi513** · 26-05-2008, 09:07 AM

http://www.bromleycma.org.uk/news/news

So if you haven't already made your views known, go to
http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/teachin...x.cfm?form=105 just to make sure!

**elaineg** · 26-05-2008, 04:34 PM

Im going to keep the article from Who Minds in my file and if Ofsted inspect me and question my numbers Ill show them it. It says they have confirmed it so an inspector should be able to go back on it if I show them it in black and white.

love Elaine XXX

**cherry** · 27-05-2008, 05:05 PM

I agree, I've just had my copy of Who Minds and I've photo copied the article and will put it with the rest of my paperwork.

Pipsqueak · 27-05-2008, 05:07 PM

Hmmm, my email from a few days ago from the NCMA says that they are still awaiting clarification on this. NCMA picking up some of Ofsteds say one thing do another traits!!!

**Hannahlg** · 28-05-2008, 08:09 AM

panic over,

children who are in recption class full days can be classed as over 5s in term time and school hoildays. like it has allways been.

They cant really have one rule for the school hoildays and another for term time anyways

**susi513** · 28-05-2008, 10:14 PM

Sorry folks, this is not yet resolved. The NCMA article says nothing about the EYFS being amended again, it just reports what they say Ofsted told them. And it was distributed before I and others got their emails from Ofsted last week.

I emailed Ofsted to check if NCMA is right and they have replied 28 May 08 . Email includes: " Please be advised that the EYFS is still in Consultation with the DCFS, the EYFS states that the rising five only applies term time."

It is still in consultation as reporting on Bromley CMA website. Until the EYFS wording is amended we have to go by what it says now. So I'm writing off for a variation now. I fully expect the EYFS will be changed and I won't need it, but just in case ...

Susi

**Blaze** · 28-05-2008, 10:22 PM

Beat me to it Susi!

**Hannahlg** · 29-05-2008, 07:59 AM

IF 4 YEAR CHILDREN ARE ATTENDING SCHOOL FULL TIME - THERE ARE CLASSED AS OVER 5S ALWAYS WILL BE

IT SAYS IT IN THE NCMA MAGAZINE

it dosnt make secne to class them as under 5s when there at school fulltime as parent are not going to pay for a full day place when there at school all day are there? Nope

**Blaze** · 29-05-2008, 12:12 PM

You need to read the full thread Hannah!

**Hannahlg** · 29-05-2008, 12:19 PM

i have thankyou

**Blaze** · 29-05-2008, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by susi513

Sorry folks, this is not yet resolved. The NCMA article says nothing about the EYFS being amended again, it just reports what they say Ofsted told them. And it was distributed before I and others got their emails from Ofsted last week.

I emailed Ofsted to check if NCMA is right and they have replied 28 May 08 . Email includes: " Please be advised that the EYFS is still in Consultation with the DCFS, the EYFS states that the rising five only applies term time."

It is still in consultation as reporting on Bromley CMA website. Until the EYFS wording is amended we have to go by what it says now. So I'm writing off for a variation now. I fully expect the EYFS will be changed and I won't need it, but just in case ...

Susi

Good...thought you'd missed the above & didn't want you to end up in trouble!

**susi513** · 29-05-2008, 07:00 PM

Update!!! Had a reply from DCSF at last. But not got anywhere. First they said that children attending a normal school day CAN be counted as an over 5 in school holidays as well.

Delighted, says I ... but what about my 4 year old mindee who will NEVER come to my setting either before OR after a normal school day as she will only be coming in school holidays ? And as well as those parents who might only require regular childcare in school holidays - what of those who might ask for ad-hoc/emergency childcare in holidays, training days etc. No-one's going to get a variation in time for a snow day or to cover a colleague's sickness!

I said I was disappointed the EYFS hadn't grasped the opportunity to save Ofsted a whole lot of avoidable admin and change it so that all children count as an older child for the purposes of child ratios from day one of the reception class regardless of whether they attend full or part time. (don't expect them to do that, but it doesn't hurt to ask lol).

Apparently my comments are fully appreciated and have been passed to the Policy Team.

Fingers crossed that the Policy Team have some common sense!