A CHILDMINDER NOT WANTING TO DO EYFS

[Arthur]

I am very sorry that my final comment upset you in the way it did, but both I and Pat thought that there was an underlying subtext in your comments that implied that childminders who do the EYFS are more professional than those who don't and that childminders who don't do the EYFS are somehow failing the children in their care.

Now before you all get angry again, let's take a look at some of your comments from this thread that gave us that impression:

Mouse: "I don't see why there can't be another type of childcare (not called a childminder), that is basically a step or so above a babysitter."

Pipsqueak: "the sit down, drink your coffee and plonk the kids in front of the tv/on the living room floor with a box of toys [type of childminder]"

DebbieS26: "If people want to "Professionals" then inevitably there is some work to go with it"

huggableshelly: "those who object to EYFS obviously do not understand it well enough ..... but also are not prepared to understand it either"

DebbieS26: "When Birth-3 came in I did an extended course .... it made me a better professional and I am sure everyone on the forum is the same but can this be said of others who don't like the EYFS?"

Mouse: "I would be happy to see a scheme whereby childminders can chose whether or not to do EYFS. Those who chose to can claim the funding, those who chose not to can't."

Allie: "Being a professional means something to me and complying with EYFS commitments is part of that professional image"

The Juggler: "there are a lot of childminders who don't appear to want that respect or be seen as childcare professionals, they are happy with the old image"

Mouse: "For those of us who want to present a more professional image, EYFS is putting us on a more even footing with other settings"

Rach30: "[the EYFS] means that all childcare professionals are working to the same standards and levells of care. I think this gives childminders a more professional status"

Mouse: "I'd be quite happy with a two tier system .... If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be"

Pipsqueak: "by doing EYFS it is giving you the opportunity to be professional"

And from the 'What Do You Like About the EYFS?' thread:

DebbieS26: "I like it because it makes me more professional in the approach to my job through planning"

Mouse: "I do think that it's helping to raise the profile of childminders. People who understand what's involved in EYFS are starting to respect the fact that we're doing so much more than babysitting"

Pipsqueak: "it pushes me up into the professional realms with all the other settings now - I am being taken seriously"

So, rightly or wrongly, it seemed to us that for some of you, your professional status was more important to you. You may, of course, think differently.

[uf353432]

I've read the whole thread - from start to finish its taken me over an hour and its been really interesting to read.

I registered after EYFS was already in place - so I don't know any other way. I have to admit I really fretted about EYFS more over I worried about observations. What did I know about child development? I was just a mum of 2 no formal qualifications in childcare.

Since the birth of both my children I have kept a diary for each of them, I noted down special moments in their life, exciting developments, interesting things, pictures they had drawn, photo's I have taken - something for them to look back on as they got older, answer questions. On a day to day basis I would ensure I made available certain toys in line with their interests or go out and buy something because I thought it would be the logical next step. We'd go out to playgroups, take walks, go to the park, feed the ducks and have picnics in nice weather. We'd spend the afternoon playing in Toysrus, just because thats what they wanted to do.

The lightbulb moment for me is that in a nutshell is all the EYFS is. The only difference between the diary I keep for my daughters and the diary I keep for my mindee's is the mindee's have coloured stickers which link in with the EYFS L&D. The diary is not for my benefit, its for the parents and the child. I showed my mindee's diary to his mum today - she looked at it saying how wonderful - she felt so detached from him when he was with me - and seeing the pictures and the description of what he was up to made her connect. The coloured stickers were almost secondary - it was a snapshot of my mindee, a keepsake and momento.

I don't do this to keep up with the Jones', I do this because as a mum its the standard I would expect from a childminder. I think there is a massive difference in a child discussing a fun day out and a parent seeing a picture of their child on a fun day out, and a discussion arrising from a photo is much more 2 way as the parent can visualise the activity etc.

My oldest was with a much respected childminder for 2 and half years, pre EYFS. On her last day my childminder presented me with a photo album of all the pictures she took of my daughter for the time together. I would say that my childminder had been doing the EYFS with her - documenting and recording the activities for the time together.

Is the EYFS right for children? is their an alterior motive from government? will it change? evolve? who knows, right now this is what is expected from me and I deliver it how I see is best within my setting. I also challenge anyone who says that I am wrong to want to be regarded as a professional because I do my job to the best of my ability. Professionalism is not just about following guidelines, its about who you are and how you deliver your service.

Debs

[Daftbat]

Arthur, I think i speak for a large number of childminders on here when i say that i think an apology is due. To think you can pass judgement on their practices when you have never even met or seen exactly how they operate is downright illogical as well as wrong.

We have been very respectful to both you and your wife regarding her issues with Ofsted and the EYFS and we expect the same in return.

I await your reply.

[Tups]

I am confused - what is wrong with wanting to be a professional?

I think that what Pat has done here is the EYFS and she hasn't had to do any obs because you have done them for her

I think it is different perceptions of how things are done.

Glad everyone had a good week - I myself spent most of last week in the sun at the park and picnicing

Nice one Debbie please please can i use it for an obs you no i need lots of help

[ORKSIE]

I still dont see why we should not want to be counted as professionals in childcare.
I have been doing my job for 15yrs and I am very proud of the way I have built up my childcare setting.
I personally enjoy doing EYFS, I have just completed level 3 and now am looking into furthering my education in childcare. I feel I am a professional in my field, and proud of it.
If people decide not to enter into EYFS or expand their knowledge then that is up to them.(i'm not saying that you dont want to expand your knowledge)
I dont know you or your wife, therefore I cannot make any comment about you.

[Pipsqueak]

I am very sorry that my final comment upset you in the way it did, but both I and Pat thought that there was an underlying subtext in your comments that implied that childminders who do the EYFS are more professional than those who don't and that childminders who don't do the EYFS are somehow failing the children in their care.

Now before you all get angry again, let's take a look at some of your comments from this thread that gave us that impression:

Mouse: "I don't see why there can't be another type of childcare (not called a childminder), that is basically a step or so above a babysitter."

Pipsqueak: "the sit down, drink your coffee and plonk the kids in front of the tv/on the living room floor with a box of toys [type of childminder]"

DebbieS26: "If people want to "Professionals" then inevitably there is some work to go with it"

huggableshelly: "those who object to EYFS obviously do not understand it well enough ..... but also are not prepared to understand it either"

DebbieS26: "When Birth-3 came in I did an extended course .... it made me a better professional and I am sure everyone on the forum is the same but can this be said of others who don't like the EYFS?"

Mouse: "I would be happy to see a scheme whereby childminders can chose whether or not to do EYFS. Those who chose to can claim the funding, those who chose not to can't."

Allie: "Being a professional means something to me and complying with EYFS commitments is part of that professional image"

The Juggler: "there are a lot of childminders who don't appear to want that respect or be seen as childcare professionals, they are happy with the old image"

Mouse: "For those of us who want to present a more professional image, EYFS is putting us on a more even footing with other settings"

Rach30: "[the EYFS] means that all childcare professionals are working to the same standards and levells of care. I think this gives childminders a more professional status"

Mouse: "I'd be quite happy with a two tier system .... If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be"

Pipsqueak: "by doing EYFS it is giving you the opportunity to be professional"

And from the 'What Do You Like About the EYFS?' thread:

DebbieS26: "I like it because it makes me more professional in the approach to my job through planning"

Mouse: "I do think that it's helping to raise the profile of childminders. People who understand what's involved in EYFS are starting to respect the fact that we're doing so much more than babysitting"

Pipsqueak: "it pushes me up into the professional realms with all the other settings now - I am being taken seriously"

So, rightly or wrongly, it seemed to us that for some of you, your professional status was more important to you. You may, of course, think differently.

Arthur - you have taken a LOT of time and trouble to browse the forum and pick up comments made by people who are proud to be a childminder AND are delivering a fantastic service and I for one find it quite insulting that you have taken so many of these comments and used them to try to 'prove your point' . Which in actual fact doesn't do you any favours tbh.

Yes a professional status is important to me - I have worked damned hard to get here - just as a doctor, dentist, teacher or any other professional does. I have put in the time to ensure that my service is continually improved, that my horizons are expanded and therefore the outcomes for children and their families. Learning is knowledge and we can all carry on learning - once you think you know it all then you might as well get out of your game. Your attitude is quite insulting. I base my service on what I would want from a childminder if my kids were at one. It just so happens that EYFS is the in thing at the moment - I choose to make the best of it and I actually happen to be quite supportive of it BUT that does not make me any less of a good childminder just because I want to be recognised by the wider community as a professional.


Sounds like you are a terrific source of help and support to Pat - not all of us are lucky enough to have an extra pair of hands like this - I know my hubby certainly doesn't have time to be as involved as you appear to be, although he is great with the kids and extremely supportive and proud of the work.
I don't do what I do - for your approval or even Ofsteds approval I do it because I honestly believe in what I do, it really matters to me and the only approval I find gratifying is knowing that the children in my care are happy, safe and well cared for - something backed up by parents and childrens comments. BUT in saying all that - I really really appreciated being on the same level as the rest of the childcare workforce now. I always have been but the EYFS has levelled the playing field.


Have you BOTHERED to read the rest of the forum and join in where you will see that for each and everyone of us - the outcomes and service we provide is paramount in our outlooks in ensuring that the children have the best. So far this has been a very civil discussion without the need to resort to introducing personal assumptions and slurs and it is not appreciated that you choose to come on here and do this - reasoned argument and discussion is welcomed but sweeping statements is not.

This forum is not just about the EYFS - its about supporting each other, sharing good and best practice, a place to let of steam and have fun. So I have a suggestion for you - get involved in the rest of the forum and get to know us before you feel you can assume anything about any one of us.


PROUD TO BE A GOOD CHILDMINDER DELIVERING THE EYFS - PROUD TO BE A PROFESSIONAL CHILDCARE PROVIDER.

[Mouse]

Well done Arthur, it must have taken you a great deal of time to read through the whole thread & select just certain sentences that 'seem' to prove your point. I actually fail to see how any of those points show that we put our own professionalism above the care of the children.

You have managed to insult many very good, professional childminders by presuming to know how we work & what our priorities are.

We have a had a great debate here about the pros & cons of EYFS. The debate was fair & respectful and because of this many forum members said how they were happy to join in and say what they think knowing that it wasn't going to result in anyone having a go at them. The mud slinging has only started since you joined in.

Please don't suggest that you & Pat have the children's interests at heart any more than the rest of us do. If Pat decides that presenting a professional image is not for her, then fine. It works for her & I would not dream of suggesting this makes her any less of a good childminder, as you have tried to suggest with us.

[angeldelight]

I think this has been a great debate

Like or hate it though for whatever reasons - EYFS is here to stay so you can talk about it till the cows come home its not going to change a thing

It would be nice for Pat to come on and give her own views though

Angel xx

[Daftbat]

Well, Arthur, Still waiting for that apology which i feel is even more justified now.

Take things out of context all you want but notice that no one has criticised your wife for her methods whereas you are very quick to criticise people you don't even know. We here on this forum prefer to be supportive to one another providing constructive criticism only.

If you and Pat have it all sorted there seems no reall need for you to be a part of our gathering, furthermore, you may well ask for opinions but you are certainly not ready to listen to them. We on the other hand have been very supportive of some of your arguments.

If i were you i would just apologise and leave.

[Arthur]

You will find the apology at post #121 and nowhere in my post previous to that did I say that any of you weren't good childminders. How could I possibly suggest that without knowing how you work?

[Pipsqueak]

You will find the apology at post #121 and nowhere in my post previous to that did I say that any of you weren't good childminders. How could I possibly suggest that without knowing how you work?

Yes you apologised and then you went on to further imply - quite uncalled for in my opinion:
'So, rightly or wrongly, it seemed to us that for some of you, your professional status was more important to you. You may, of course, think differently'. What you are attempting to imply is extremely clear. Can I presume that Pat is sat alongside you and reads the forum as well? I do find your support of Pat very admirable I do say.

I repeat you have trawled the forum for quotes that appear quite relevant to your argument but you have taken MANY of them out of context and have gone one to imply by using this quotes that the children's welfare was not our primary concern. How awful of you. You obviously cannot see the woods for the trees about how and what you are saying.

Arthur - take the time to join in the rest of the forum for goodness sake - again I repeat this forum and its childminders lives and working practices DO NOT revolve around EYFS. We support each other - not make assumptions or trash each other in what otherwise is a tough, demanding and challenging (and potentially quite lonely) job.

If you stick around long enough or have the curiosity to investigate further perhaps you and Pat might pick up some wonderful ideas or even have some that you can share (I am sure a longstanding and experienced childminder such as Pat would have some terrific ideas that she could share to help and inform practice), you could become part of a thriving online community that is close, fun and caring. (Each and everyone of us is here because we care). You might even come across instances of where EYFS IS working - why and how - proving a point for some of us that it is not burdensome, cumbersome, unecessary or whatever.

[Mouse]

You will find the apology at post #121 and nowhere in my post previous to that did I say that any of you weren't good childminders. How could I possibly suggest that without knowing how you work?

But you did suggest that Arthur. You said shame on us for not putting the children first. You implied that we weren't as good as Pat as the children are obvioulsy her first priority, but not ours. You then quoted our own words at us to 'prove' that we are more interested in our own images than in the children we care for.
As you say Arthur, you don't know how we work, yet it didn't stop you making some very wrong assumptions and making a very insulting accusation.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Can I ask Arthur why you and Pat are against the principals and content of the EYFS?

[FussyElmo]

Been reading this thread with interest not commented before as someone has usually said it. But I must say Arthur I am disappointed that because I like to a professional childcarer that you assume this means more to me. Well it doesnt and NEVER will, the children are the main priority, as they are for all us.


But I know that I can come on this forum and ask questions about anything including the EYFS and one of these (usually) complete strangers will do they best to answer. They will not make me feel stupid, useless or insult me but will try their best to answer.

Thank you to each and everyone of you. Hoping Arthur that you will do the same.

[Pipsqueak]

Exemption from EYFS learning goals is rejected

By Catherine Gaunt, Nursery World, 20 May 2009

Mrs Adams told Nursery World, 'I am not giving up childminding immediately but will continue working in the same way and will wait until my next Ofsted inspection and see what the outcome of that will be. If Ofsted downgrade me to inadequate I will be extremely upset, because I know their decision will be based on paperwork and not on the quality of my childcare.'

She said she knew of at least three other childminders with similar views to herself who would be prepared to leave the profession if they are downgraded in their Ofsted inspections.

She added, 'Parents just want someone to look after their children and know that they are safe and cared for. They don't want formal learning - they want a home-from-home environment. '

Ok point one - I know an Outstanding childminder who doesn't do walloping great reams of paperwork- she does the bare minimum required. She has 4 (I think ) written policies - Safeguarding/Welfare, Health, Inclusion and can't remember the other on off hand - they are sturdy policies I must say and incorporate a fair bit but hers only stretch to 15 pages total (whereas mine are about 50 pages long). She is a damned good childminder - her Ofsted inpection under EYFS reflects this. She has gained outstanding in her last 3 inspections - proof that it can be done.

Why on earth would you be downgraded if you can prove/show that you are doing a good job. Again the childminder I mention doesn't have reams of paperwork. By her own admission she only does approx 20/30 minutes each day of paperwork during her working week - never on a weekend.


Because its all too easy to 'rise to the occasion' on the day (as I know some childminders who I wouldn't leave my binbag with let alone a child - can do) - anyone could do it I don't see that a few photo's and a few lines of writing would do anyone any harm.


As to saying that parents only want someone to look after their child and aren't bothered about the the formal learning aspects

a) its NOT formal learning and if you consider it to be then you misunderstand the EYFS

b) NOT all parents aren't bothered - again its making sweeping assumptions. Point proven today- have just signed up a new child (admittedly out of the EYFS) and his mother paid me a lovely compliment - telling me that they will be moving in about 18months time but she already thinks I will be a hard act to follow and that I 'very obviously care deeply for the children' and that I run a 'very professional and competent outfit' - (doesn't that blow Arthurs assumption out of the water!!!). The compliment made me blush but it made me very proud that my professionalism and caring shone through. Mum was very impressed that I wanted to go and meet his teacher and make an introduction and the teacher was quite surprised too - saying that it was great to have contact with 'other outside professionals in this manner.
Why did I want to meet the teacher - out of courtesy yes and so I knew where I was going but also so I can start building a relationship with her so that I can deliver the best possible service for this child. Mum liked the fact that I was interested in his school life.

[Daftbat]

Today i went to collect 2 children from nursery school. The nursery teacher called me over to ask a favour and she gave me some documentation which was to be passed to the parent. This included the childs first reading book, introduction to reading itself, details of the "jolly phonics" methods of teaching.

The parent had been due to meet with the nursery teacher to discuss this but at the last minute the parent had had to cancel because her car broke down.

The teacher asked me to pass the information over and wondered if i might explain to the parent how the system with reading records etc worked and what the jolly phonics technique was based upon. She was apologetic that i was being asked but she said openly that she knew that as a childminder following EYFS i would be equally capable of explaining to the parent and whilst she was available whenever needed she wanted the child to get started with the reading programme without further delay.

Having reflected upon this i am very flattered that she felt able to pass this responsibility to me in the knowledge that the parent would get the right information. She had the best interests of the child at heart and as i look after the child every day it was sensible choice. The teacher was not shirking her responsibilities as she made it plain that she was available to the parent at any time, instead she was being sensible and using the EYFS "network" to get information across to the parent.

Having embraced EYFS i have been in more formal contact with the local nursery school and we have shared ideas and information beneficial to the children we all care for. This has resulted in the above.

I still do all the things that "Mrs Arthur" does with the children and consider my setting to be a home from home for the children. I would be in human however if i did not feel some satisfaction that i was not being looked upon as a baby sitter and that i am doing a responsible job, in fact THE most responsible job in the world.

[ORKSIE]

Ok point one - I know an Outstanding childminder who doesn't do walloping great reams of paperwork- she does the bare minimum required. She has 4 (I think ) written policies - Safeguarding/Welfare, Health, Inclusion and can't remember the other on off hand - they are sturdy policies I must say and incorporate a fair bit but hers only stretch to 15 pages total (whereas mine are about 50 pages long). She is a damned good childminder - her Ofsted inpection under EYFS reflects this. She has gained outstanding in her last 3 inspections - proof that it can be done.

Why on earth would you be downgraded if you can prove/show that you are doing a good job. Again the childminder I mention doesn't have reams of paperwork. By her own admission she only does approx 20/30 minutes each day of paperwork during her working week - never on a weekend.


Because its all too easy to 'rise to the occasion' on the day (as I know some childminders who I wouldn't leave my binbag with let alone a child - can do) - anyone could do it I don't see that a few photo's and a few lines of writing would do anyone any harm.


As to saying that parents only want someone to look after their child and aren't bothered about the the formal learning aspects

a) its NOT formal learning and if you consider it to be then you misunderstand the EYFS

b) NOT all parents aren't bothered - again its making sweeping assumptions. Point proven today- have just signed up a new child (admittedly out of the EYFS) and his mother paid me a lovely compliment - telling me that they will be moving in about 18months time but she already thinks I will be a hard act to follow and that I 'very obviously care deeply for the children' and that I run a 'very professional and competent outfit' - (doesn't that blow Arthurs assumption out of the water!!!). The compliment made me blush but it made me very proud that my professionalism and caring shone through. Mum was very impressed that I wanted to go and meet his teacher and make an introduction and the teacher was quite surprised too - saying that it was great to have contact with 'other outside professionals in this manner.
Why did I want to meet the teacher - out of courtesy yes and so I knew where I was going but also so I can start building a relationship with her so that I can deliver the best possible service for this child. Mum liked the fact that I was interested in his school life.

I am not making any comment on the childminder in this post, I dont know her, but...
I got a "good" I have policies in place, I do EYFS, really well, Mrs OFSTED commented on them her self!. I have risk assessments in place, I did not have a Written risk assessment for outings...I got an ACTION! on my report, which was rectified as soon as I recieved my report! Why the heck do I bother!! Seems to me it comes down to who you get on the day, I am appealing against my report, because I feel I have been treated unfairly.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I am not making any comment on the childminder in this post, I dont know her, but...
I got a "good" I have policies in place, I do EYFS, really well, Mrs OFSTED commented on them her self!. I have risk assessments in place, I did not have a Written risk assessment for outings...I got an ACTION! on my report, which was rectified as soon as I recieved my report! Why the heck do I bother!! Seems to me it comes down to who you get on the day, I am appealing against my report, because I feel I have been treated unfairly.

A lot of people are getting caught out on this but it is in the book and a requirement. You have to do one for each outing too which takes up a bit more time but like policies once it is done it is done.

[ORKSIE]

A lot of people are getting caught out on this but it is in the book and a requirement. You have to do one for each outing too which takes up a bit more time but like policies once it is done it is done.

I agree Debbie, but a childminder in my area did not have a R/A for her Garden! and got OUTSTANDING, she got a recommendation for this.
I have spoken to my Network adviser and she agrees its not fair.
Its the inconsistancies that I find really annoying.

[Pipsqueak]

Totall agree SLC - there are some terrible inconsistecies - so much depends upon the inspector you get -if they got out the right side of the bed that morning, if you click with them when they come toyou etc etc.
I support several new minders - two of them work closely together and have very very similar paperwork and working methods - one got a good in all areas the other got satisfactory. The only thing I can think of is that one is well-spoken and articuate and very calm (can say the right things to questions) the other isn't. Same inspector!

I will point out - the outstanding cm does have ALL relevant and necessary paperwork.