A CHILDMINDER NOT WANTING TO DO EYFS

[Mouse]

I wonder if we'd have had the same debate when Birth to Three came into force...and I wonder if we'll have the same debate when the next new thing comes along

[Pipsqueak]

[QUOTE=Mouse;437948]I wonder if we'd have had the same debate when Birth to Three came into force...and I wonder if we'll have the same debate when the next new thing comes along [/QUOT

So true Mouse!!! I have really enjoyed discussing this and its made really interesting reading as well. Thanks everyone

[clorogue]

As a childminder - I say that we do need loud and clear guidelines for EVERYBODY to be working to because otherwise you are going to get 2nd rate childcare from some places and that is not what Every Child Matters is all about. EVERY child does matter especially for those of us working in disadvantaged areas.
I don't just support the children, I often support families through various schemes and capacities and currently (in a normal childminding context) I have one parent who is not particuarly aware of EYFS but loves looking through the LJ and thinks its wonderful that I know so much about her child, the other parent is quite into all of this and it has reassured her that I am giving the best possible service (she has had quite a horrific time with an previous childminder).
Families I support, it gives me a clear basis on which to start helping these children and families and I can use EYFS to help the parents to start understanding their childs developme

As Debbie rightly says - its about the child, not the adult(s).

As a parent I am pleased to know that I am going along the same road - so it has given me clarfication.

Clorogue - why isn't it working for some people? Is it because they don't understand it through whatever reason do you think. Do you think the hype about it made people fear it more. Any big changes anywhere can so often rely on the attitudes towards its - I always find its easier to have a positive outlook and try to rise to the challenge before condeming something.
If people are doing tons of paperwork - its because they are doing too much. Great for those who enjoy the paperwork (and there are some of us ) and thats well and good for them but I honestly do believe EYFS is what you make of it.
Also what does your advisors comment say - to me it says you are doing all the right things and have risen to the challenge as opposed to perhaps some other minders who are happy doing what they are doing. Yes time will tell won't it.

Any new system needs time to bed in, get reflected upon and change, improve or leave as necessary. Lets give it chance.

I have only a few mins so quick reply - yes I think in some ways there has been a lot of hype about it making people fear it more. Also getting lots of conflicting information from different sources and not knowing whether you are doing it right or not. I think it scared people seeing a great big book come in the door - yes it did look daunting! I also think Ofsted don't make things clear and then it can get confusing again and then it is trying to keep up with the changes. Then people get demoralised. I have been on training courses where there is conflicting information and not matter how you try to embrace it, it just seems so much more work to try and work it out - going back and forward trying to work out what is right!

I have really been interested in this debate and I think Mouse has spoken up about alot about how childminders feel.

It will be interesting to see how things go. Of course it is about the children, that is so very important. But carers well being is so important too, if you have stressed childminders, it refects on the children and obviously they pick up on that which is of no benefit to the children. All our situations are unique I know. It is sad to see good childminders really good at their job being stressed and thinking of giving up.

Thanks for a great debate!

[Pipsqueak]

I have only a few mins so quick reply - yes I think in some ways there has been a lot of hype about it making people fear it more. Also getting lots of conflicting information from different sources and not knowing whether you are doing it right or not. I think it scared people seeing a great big book come in the door - yes it did look daunting! I also think Ofsted don't make things clear and then it can get confusing again and then it is trying to keep up with the changes. Then people get demoralised. I have been on training courses where there is conflicting information and not matter how you try to embrace it, it just seems so much more work to try and work it out - going back and forward trying to work out what is right!

I have really been interested in this debate and I think Mouse has spoken up about alot about how childminders feel.

It will be interesting to see how things go. Of course it is about the children, that is so very important. But carers well being is so important too, if you have stressed childminders, it refects on the children and obviously they pick up on that which is of no benefit to the children. All our situations are unique I know. It is sad to see good childminders really good at their job being stressed and thinking of giving up.

Thanks for a great debate!

Hah - since when has Ofsted been clear on anything

I do honestly feel for those good childminders who are stressed about all this - the genuine ones who are daunted by it (not simply can't be bothered) and that is why this site and I am sure its members would willingly help anyone out. I know I have offered time and again to some minders in my area.

I know Mouse has spoken up for all the minders who do feel that way but its about time that the minders who actually enjoy EYFS and fnd it ok are heard too. A while back GMTV didn't want to know and I seem to recall another programme wasn't interested either in the positive side of things.
Again all credit to this site and its members - a decent, human, discussion without resulting to insults or slurs

[Chatterbox Childcare]

[QUOTE=Mouse;437713]I'd be quite happy with a two tier system and think this is how it should be. I work hard, follow EYFS & provide the best care I can for the children in my care. Why should I be on a level footing with childminders who still don't do EYFS,

The EYFS is there for the children and not the childcarer - the childcarer is judged by their grade

who still put children in front of the TV and who only do what they need to when Ofsted is due to visit?

If this was done and there wasn't a learning journey then Ofsted would pick it up


If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be. I know I wouldn't - I'd have the drive & determination to get myself as near the top of the top tier as I could. Not everyone would want that though & that's where I think the choice should come into it.

Is this in the best interest of the child or the childminder?

And I agree that jobs change, but think of any other self employed occupation. If there was suddenly a huge change that they had to comply with, I bet there would be uproar. For childminders we all just go along with what Ofsted say without questioning whether or not it's right for us or the children.[/QUOTE]

If the childcarers had been following the B-3 which is far more complicated than the EYFS then they wouldn't have so much to do

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I think we might already have covered this. I know there are very few things that we have to have written down, but in practice if you want a good grading (which most of us do), you are going to have to have paperwork in place.
I know you say that EYFS is about the children, not the adults, but if I am doing a good job I want official recognition for it. I do EYFS & have all the paperwork to back it up. I know I don't need to, but I wouldn't have got a good grade without it.

So other childminders should feel the same - put the work in and get the grade and they should stop bitching about it if they don't

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I agree with others - great debate and nice that it is civil and coherent.

Well done everyone

Mouse - I think we are saying the same thing but in different ways

[Daftbat]

I have read this thread with interest and have seen a few comments regarding parents not being interested in EYFS.

In my own setting the parents have given me a very enthustiastic response and welcomed the information i have provided.

Some are more interested than others in the observations i do but the evidence i gather which shows Ofsted about the learning journeys has been very beneficial to working parents who have said that they sometimes feel they miss out on what their children are doing.

I have always considered my self to be a "good" childminder and have always had a good working relationship with parents. I do think though that EYFS has re-inforced this and made me put in place structures which has improved the flow of communication with parents and given them the opportunity to discuss things more openly with me.

In addition, the daily diaries etc are more professionally put together and contain inofrmation and photos which the children will hopefully look back on and enjoy in the future, along with their parents.

[Arthur]

Well, what a lot of postings since I last looked at this thread.

Anyway, this week Pat has had 2 sisters aged nearly 4 and nearly 2. It is still half term so the older girl was not in playgroup, which meant that there was no to-ing and fro-ing to playgroup and the day was theirs to do with what they will. They have been out every day to the park (we live near a long linear park that follows a canal and stretches for miles) with both girls walking everywhere and feeding the ducks, swans and geese; looking at the baby ducks; picking flowers; playing on the bandstand; playing on the various slides and swings that are dotted about the park; watching the tractor that had broken down be taken away on a low loader; and talking about this, that and the other. They also visited and played with friends and went to the charity shop to see if there were any cheap, but good second hand toys to buy. Back at home, so that the younger girl can have a sleep, they have been having quiet times and also playing on the slides and climbing frame in the garden, doing sticking and glueing, drawing, making a birthday card for one of Pat's previous mindees (who will be 21 next week), watering the plants and making wet footprints on the drive plus lots more. I know because every night I uploaded the photographs to the PC, some of which will be emailed to the parents and all of which will be put onto CDs for the parents to keep. One night I even came home to find a giant clown's face on the back lawn made out of ball pond balls and using various other things for the ears and eyes. The elder girl had also taken some photographs of the clown's face she had made.

And all of this was done quite spontaneously with activities naturally leading to other activities. There was no plan, no formal observing, no recording (apart from the photographs), no cross referencing to which of the 6 areas of learning and development each activity covered, no assessment of where the girls are in their 'learning journey' and no further planning of what needs to be done next to build on what has just been learned. Each night, the collecting parent was told what had happened that day (by both Pat and the 2 girls where possible). Later that night, while the girls are having their bath, the girls would discuss with their parents as best they can, what they did with their day. And everyone was happy. Whether Ofsted will be happy remains to be seen, but they don't pay Pat's wages, do they?

Now try and tell me that a childminder who isn't doing the EYFS is a second rate childminder.

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.

[Tups]

Well, what a lot of postings since I last looked at this thread.

Anyway, this week Pat has had 2 sisters aged nearly 4 and nearly 2. It is still half term so the older girl was not in playgroup, which meant that there was no to-ing and fro-ing to playgroup and the day was theirs to do with what they will. They have been out every day to the park (we live near a long linear park that follows a canal and stretches for miles) with both girls walking everywhere and feeding the ducks, swans and geese; looking at the baby ducks; picking flowers; playing on the bandstand; playing on the various slides and swings that are dotted about the park; watching the tractor that had broken down be taken away on a low loader; and talking about this, that and the other. They also visited and played with friends and went to the charity shop to see if there were any cheap, but good second hand toys to buy. Back at home, so that the younger girl can have a sleep, they have been having quiet times and also playing on the slides and climbing frame in the garden, doing sticking and glueing, drawing, making a birthday card for one of Pat's previous mindees (who will be 21 next week), watering the plants and making wet footprints on the drive plus lots more. I know because every night I uploaded the photographs to the PC, some of which will be emailed to the parents and all of which will be put onto CDs for the parents to keep. One night I even came home to find a giant clown's face on the back lawn made out of ball pond balls and using various other things for the ears and eyes. The elder girl had also taken some photographs of the clown's face she had made.

And all of this was done quite spontaneously with activities naturally leading to other activities. There was no plan, no formal observing, no recording (apart from the photographs), no cross referencing to which of the 6 areas of learning and development each activity covered, no assessment of where the girls are in their 'learning journey' and no further planning of what needs to be done next to build on what has just been learned. Each night, the collecting parent was told what had happened that day (by both Pat and the 2 girls where possible). Later that night, while the girls are having their bath, the girls would discuss with their parents as best they can, what they did with their day. And everyone was happy. Whether Ofsted will be happy remains to be seen, but they don't pay Pat's wages, do they?

Now try and tell me that a childminder who isn't doing the EYFS is a second rate childminder.

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.

Hi Arthur Pat is an excellent childminder i no that. for 20 years she has never been without children the same as me. and its a shame if we both have to give it up xx

[Mouse]

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.

Shame on you Arthur, I was quite supportive of you until you said that.

The children in my care are always my first priority, but I see nothing wrong with using EYFS to present a more professional image for myself.

I find it quite insulting that you are saying some of us do not put the children first.

[CountryKids]

Haven't read the entire thread, but what saddens me is that there doesn't seem to be exemption for Steiner or Montessori settings - Independent Schools don't have to follow the NC because the State doesn't pay for them, well the State doesn't pay self employed child minders either - I'd like to be setting up a Steiner early years setting, but as far as I can tell, it's not possible.

[Pipsqueak]

Now try and tell me that a childminder who isn't doing the EYFS is a second rate childminder.

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.

No one has implied that a childminder not doing EYFS is a second rate childminder! And as to your second statement - well I am sorry but shame on you Arthur - that is an awful thing to imply - that a childminder who enjoys their (more) professional status does not have the childrens welfare as their first and foremost concern. I was really quite interested in your comments until that uncalled for and rather unnecessary comment. Your last two comments could be taken as quite inflammatory so I am quite shocked.

I AM a professional childcare provider who has the welfare of the children in here care as her driving force to better and better herself and service - just ask any of the parents -past and present. So in your eyes - very obviously IMO you choose to look down on the childminders who choose to consider themselves professional??? Do you look down on the nursery/pre-school staff as well? Or in fact anyone who chooses to consider themselves a professional - a doctor is a professional - so you equate that to the doctor not having his patients best interests at heart?

Shame on you Arthur.

[ORKSIE]

Must admit I find these comments rather upsetting.
I, like a lot of people found the EYFS very daunting. But now i've got my head around it i really enjoy it and i feel i have something to show for all the hard work I do. Plus the children love there ROA's and love showing them off to mum & dad.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Well, what a lot of postings since I last looked at this thread.

Anyway, this week Pat has had 2 sisters aged nearly 4 and nearly 2. It is still half term so the older girl was not in playgroup, which meant that there was no to-ing and fro-ing to playgroup and the day was theirs to do with what they will. They have been out every day to the park (we live near a long linear park that follows a canal and stretches for miles) with both girls walking everywhere and feeding the ducks, swans and geese; looking at the baby ducks; picking flowers; playing on the bandstand; playing on the various slides and swings that are dotted about the park; watching the tractor that had broken down be taken away on a low loader; and talking about this, that and the other. They also visited and played with friends and went to the charity shop to see if there were any cheap, but good second hand toys to buy. Back at home, so that the younger girl can have a sleep, they have been having quiet times and also playing on the slides and climbing frame in the garden, doing sticking and glueing, drawing, making a birthday card for one of Pat's previous mindees (who will be 21 next week), watering the plants and making wet footprints on the drive plus lots more. I know because every night I uploaded the photographs to the PC, some of which will be emailed to the parents and all of which will be put onto CDs for the parents to keep. One night I even came home to find a giant clown's face on the back lawn made out of ball pond balls and using various other things for the ears and eyes. The elder girl had also taken some photographs of the clown's face she had made.

And all of this was done quite spontaneously with activities naturally leading to other activities. There was no plan, no formal observing, no recording (apart from the photographs), no cross referencing to which of the 6 areas of learning and development each activity covered, no assessment of where the girls are in their 'learning journey' and no further planning of what needs to be done next to build on what has just been learned. Each night, the collecting parent was told what had happened that day (by both Pat and the 2 girls where possible). Later that night, while the girls are having their bath, the girls would discuss with their parents as best they can, what they did with their day. And everyone was happy. Whether Ofsted will be happy remains to be seen, but they don't pay Pat's wages, do they?

Now try and tell me that a childminder who isn't doing the EYFS is a second rate childminder.

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.

I am confused - what is wrong with wanting to be a professional?

I think that what Pat has done here is the EYFS and she hasn't had to do any obs because you have done them for her

I think it is different perceptions of how things are done.

Glad everyone had a good week - I myself spent most of last week in the sun at the park and picnicing

[Daftbat]

Well, what a lot of postings since I last looked at this thread.

Anyway, this week Pat has had 2 sisters aged nearly 4 and nearly 2. It is still half term so the older girl was not in playgroup, which meant that there was no to-ing and fro-ing to playgroup and the day was theirs to do with what they will. They have been out every day to the park (we live near a long linear park that follows a canal and stretches for miles) with both girls walking everywhere and feeding the ducks, swans and geese; looking at the baby ducks; picking flowers; playing on the bandstand; playing on the various slides and swings that are dotted about the park; watching the tractor that had broken down be taken away on a low loader; and talking about this, that and the other. They also visited and played with friends and went to the charity shop to see if there were any cheap, but good second hand toys to buy. Back at home, so that the younger girl can have a sleep, they have been having quiet times and also playing on the slides and climbing frame in the garden, doing sticking and glueing, drawing, making a birthday card for one of Pat's previous mindees (who will be 21 next week), watering the plants and making wet footprints on the drive plus lots more. I know because every night I uploaded the photographs to the PC, some of which will be emailed to the parents and all of which will be put onto CDs for the parents to keep. One night I even came home to find a giant clown's face on the back lawn made out of ball pond balls and using various other things for the ears and eyes. The elder girl had also taken some photographs of the clown's face she had made.

And all of this was done quite spontaneously with activities naturally leading to other activities. There was no plan, no formal observing, no recording (apart from the photographs), no cross referencing to which of the 6 areas of learning and development each activity covered, no assessment of where the girls are in their 'learning journey' and no further planning of what needs to be done next to build on what has just been learned. Each night, the collecting parent was told what had happened that day (by both Pat and the 2 girls where possible). Later that night, while the girls are having their bath, the girls would discuss with their parents as best they can, what they did with their day. And everyone was happy. Whether Ofsted will be happy remains to be seen, but they don't pay Pat's wages, do they?

Now try and tell me that a childminder who isn't doing the EYFS is a second rate childminder.

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.

Oh dear Arthur, its a shame that you can't see the wood for the trees.

The children in your wifes care are obviously having a great time as are the children in my care. Just because i spend my own time preparing a portfolio for each child which the parent can read and talk about with the child both that same day or at some point in the future does not make me shameful!

The parents i work for are eager to receive diaries which they can peruse with their children promoting interesting discussions. EYFS and traditional playing, exploring, learning and enjoyment are not mutually exclusive!

As another poster has mentioned, you had my support in a lot of the things you said but sadly you have now lost it. There is nothing wrong with having your own opinions but to try and force others in to your way of thinking by insulting them is not the way forward.

[Roseolivia]

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.[/QUOTE]

I think this comment is quite unfair. A lot of minders agreed or sympathised with you and your wife on your beliefs of EYFS (i as one of them) but i think you have now lost the respect of many of these after this comment. A lot of these minders do all the paperwork in their own family time to enhance their care of the children that they mind. I for one hate all the paperwork and do as little as i need to but i agree some of the parerwork is useful e.g daily diaries, photos. I'm sorry you feel that these minders don't put the children first but i know from reading threads on this forum the children always come first. I think you could spend your time better 'having a go' at the government rather than attacking the minders on here.

[Mouse]

What a pity that an otherwise excellent, respectful discussion has turned slightly sour towards the end

[Pipsqueak]

What a pity that an otherwise excellent, respectful discussion has turned slightly sour towards the end

Perhaps if new posters took the time to explore other parts of the forum they would see that we are professional providers who care deeply about the children we care for.

[TooEarlyForGin?]

I haven't sat on the sidelines and complained, I've dug in to try and sort some of the muddle out. After the response to the Open-Eye petition which was:-

"The only statutory requirement to write anything down is that practitioners must complete an EYFS Profile for each child in the year in which they turn five – reception class at primary school for most children. This is intended to help inform future policy, and to support teachers in understanding children’s needs when they enter Key Stage 1 of primary school"

I was "gobsmacked" after going on several courses and being told of all the planning I was now supposed to do and the "Learning Journey" roled out by our LA - I wrote to OFSTED and got this reply:-

"I am sorry that you are concerned about the amount of paperwork childminders are expected to complete to deliver the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS). The EYFS in general does not expect childminders to have written policies and procedures except where the specific legal requirements does not exclude them The EYFS profile is one such case, and there are a few others such as the need to keep a written record of medication administered; and a record of accidents and first aid treatment. This is no different to the previous National Standards. "

Can someone then please explain to me why perfectly good childminders are being harrassed by OFSTED inspectors to do planning and observations? Some may answer that they would get a satisfactory and that would be achieving the necessary grade for those who don't want to do paperwork, but after reading a newsletter from Essex County Council giving tips to childminders on sucessful inspections and things that OFSTED had picked up on included: an "Action Point" was given (with an action date to be done by - so a formal warning) to a childminder telling them to "Plan an educational programme which enables children to make progress towards the early learning goals" and for another a notice to improve "ensure policies and procedures are regularly reviewed and updated in line with current legislation" and "devise and implement and equal ops policy" - THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE STATUTORY - I still feel very strongly that it has not yet been delivered correctly, including the issue with 4/5 year olds in reception.

Then today reported in the Guardian it reveals a six-year decline in the number of carers looking after under-eights, with the level dropping from 70,000 in 2003 to 60,900 in March this year. In the last 12 months there has been a more dramatic decline, with a loss of 4,000 childminders.

Sarah McCarthy-Fry, the schools minister, said: "It is nonsense to suggest that childminders are leaving the profession in droves as a result of the Early Years Foundation Stage. The EYFS is not a burden on childminders and most of them will be familiar with it because it's what they are already doing – helping children learn and develop through play.

Sorry ladies (and gents) I understand many are getting along OK but many damn good childminders who just can't cope have already left because of the EYFS and many are preparing to, and if the government continue to stick their heads in the sand I feel many more will leave.

I have done lots of training, but after a 50 hour week my weekends are precious and I am fed up with having to do it in my own time. (I am the local childcare have no family locally - husband works akward hours - so really struggle) Teachers are not required to - they have teacher training days, and nursery's and pre-schools have staff to cover. At the last Safeguarding training I went on I found it really biased towards larger group settings, we should be treated as an individual type of childcare - have our own systems implemented which suit us. I do think we need to stand and up and be counted, god knows what they will make us do next if we don't.

Sorry its long and ranting - great forum