A CHILDMINDER NOT WANTING TO DO EYFS

[Mouse]

I have read somewhere of some reasearch done that proves that children who spend a large amount of time in a day nursery from a young age generally dont do as well as children who spent time at home with a parent. We are home from home . And it don't get much better than that !

So, being at home with a parent is the best start for a child? So why are we all doing EYFS with them then? Doesn't it mean that children would be better served by offering a true home from home setting...how many parents follow EYFS? To me, a home from home setting doesn't include EYFS!

[Pipsqueak]

So, being at home with a parent is the best start for a child? So why are we all doing EYFS with them then? Doesn't it mean that children would be better served by offering a true home from home setting...how many parents follow EYFS? To me, a home from home setting doesn't include EYFS!

Perhaps parents don't 'do' EYFS by the book - I know I don't with my own but I think we all do something similar. I know that I check that my child is developing and thriving, I make mental notes in my head that he likes this (this week), what we can do next - perhaps my brain processes stuff differently as a parent.

I prefer to look at it this way - the other (y'no pre-schools, nurseries etc) settings are being bought into line with home based childcare - which as we know is the best for children!

[Mouse]

Perhaps parents don't 'do' EYFS by the book - I know I don't with my own but I think we all do something similar. I know that I check that my child is developing and thriving, I make mental notes in my head that he likes this (this week), what we can do next - perhaps my brain processes stuff differently as a parent.

I prefer to look at it this way - the other (y'no pre-schools, nurseries etc) settings are being bought into line with home based childcare - which as we know is the best for children!

I agree. As parents we observe, assess & plan for our children, though not formally. We see our baby can roll over, next stage is to crawl, so we clear a space and spread toys around to encourage moving...observed, assessed & planned.

Isn't that basically what EYFS is? I think we all do it naturally anyway. So why the need for such a big 'scheme'? Why the need for evidence of it all? Do the children benefit anymore from it being a formal framework to follow than they do from it just being left to natural progression?

Personally I like EYFS. I'm the sort of (sad!) person who enjoys methodical paperwork, having folders set up, working to a plan etc. My argument though is that it isn't right for everyone & that it can't be shown that children actually benefit from it.

[clorogue]

Thank goodness to see people with my point of you - I certainly agree with a lot you say Mouse! THe children I look after have certainly not benefitted whatsoever from the EYFS. One thing for sure, it can't go on the way it is going on......watch this space.....

[Pipsqueak]

Yes but then don't you think there needs to be a standardisation across the board. There will be childminders out there doing EYFS and some who won't be- therefore you will have a two tier system working surely. Perhaps the good childminders will use the EYFS but then again maybe they won't - so then will children be disadvantaged, perhaps the good childminders are already usng an EYFS type of provision and cannot see any difference now - well good thats as it should be then.

Change happens in all types of jobs, things move forward and evolve - fact of life.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

This is what I was saying many posts ago!

For those of us who want to present a more professional image, EYFS is putting us on a more even footing with other settings (though many of the still don't realise quite what we do )

But there are childminders out there who really don't worry about their image and are happy to be seen as someone earning a bit of 'pin money'. It doesn't make them bad childminders.

But is it good for the children? Do these childminders do regular training and know the latest information about child development.

I personally think that childcare is about the child and not about the adult.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

So, being at home with a parent is the best start for a child? So why are we all doing EYFS with them then? Doesn't it mean that children would be better served by offering a true home from home setting...how many parents follow EYFS? To me, a home from home setting doesn't include EYFS!

I think that Rachel is saying that home from home is a warm friendly environment with consistency of face and surroundings.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I agree. As parents we observe, assess & plan for our children, though not formally. We see our baby can roll over, next stage is to crawl, so we clear a space and spread toys around to encourage moving...observed, assessed & planned.

Isn't that basically what EYFS is? I think we all do it naturally anyway. So why the need for such a big 'scheme'? Why the need for evidence of it all? Do the children benefit anymore from it being a formal framework to follow than they do from it just being left to natural progression?

Personally I like EYFS. I'm the sort of (sad!) person who enjoys methodical paperwork, having folders set up, working to a plan etc. My argument though is that it isn't right for everyone & that it can't be shown that children actually benefit from it.

It doesn't state anywhere in the EYFS that there has to be written plans/obs/evidence that I can see and as long as the childminders who don't understand the EYFS (and I believe that this is the stumbling block) can verbally talk to the inspector then there isn't any need. Personally I couldn't do it and that is why for other childminders, like me, the paperwork is a necessity.

[Rach30]

Yes Debs that was what i was saying . Yes we do naturally all obs , assess , plan in our heads but unless we have someehitng on paper (mine is very brief lol) then how do parents know that we don't plonk their children in front of the TV all day ? . I do think there needs to be standardisation ascross the board otherwise , like pipsqueek says , we'll end up with a 2 tier system. EYFS really doesn't have to complicated ......Honest

[Mouse]

There will be childminders out there doing EYFS and some who won't be- therefore you will have a two tier system working surely.
Change happens in all types of jobs, things move forward and evolve - fact of life.

I'd be quite happy with a two tier system and think this is how it should be. I work hard, follow EYFS & provide the best care I can for the children in my care. Why should I be on a level footing with childminders who still don't do EYFS, who still put children in front of the TV and who only do what they need to when Ofsted is due to visit?

If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be. I know I wouldn't - I'd have the drive & determination to get myself as near the top of the top tier as I could. Not everyone would want that though & that's where I think the choice should come into it.


And I agree that jobs change, but think of any other self employed occupation. If there was suddenly a huge change that they had to comply with, I bet there would be uproar. For childminders we all just go along with what Ofsted say without questioning whether or not it's right for us or the children.

[Mouse]

It doesn't state anywhere in the EYFS that there has to be written plans/obs/evidence that I can see and as long as the childminders who don't understand the EYFS (and I believe that this is the stumbling block) can verbally talk to the inspector then there isn't any need. Personally I couldn't do it and that is why for other childminders, like me, the paperwork is a necessity.

I think we might already have covered this. I know there are very few things that we have to have written down, but in practice if you want a good grading (which most of us do), you are going to have to have paperwork in place.
I know you say that EYFS is about the children, not the adults, but if I am doing a good job I want official recognition for it. I do EYFS & have all the paperwork to back it up. I know I don't need to, but I wouldn't have got a good grade without it.

[Pipsqueak]

I'd be quite happy with a two tier system and think this is how it should be. I work hard, follow EYFS & provide the best care I can for the children in my care. Why should I be on a level footing with childminders who still don't do EYFS, who still put children in front of the TV and who only do what they need to when Ofsted is due to visit?

If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be. I know I wouldn't - I'd have the drive & determination to get myself as near the top of the top tier as I could. Not everyone would want that though & that's where I think the choice should come into it.


And I agree that jobs change, but think of any other self employed occupation. If there was suddenly a huge change that they had to comply with, I bet there would be uproar. For childminders we all just go along with what Ofsted say without questioning whether or not it's right for us or the children.

But that is exactly the point Mouse - EYFS will and is starting to weed out those childminders who only do the right noises and moves in front of Ofsted. So by doing EYFS it is giving you (me and the rest of us) the opportunity to be professional and those who can't be bothered (note I have said not bothered, not can't do or struggling) to even open their packs, go on training or even to actually understand about child development etc then yes, its showing you and me for what we are - good childminders. Arrrgghh think I am explaining this wrong.

As to us questioning it - ok then have you read the research behind it? As with anything there are pros and cons but some of the research is really quite good and informative.

[Mouse]

Yes Debs that was what i was saying . Yes we do naturally all obs , assess , plan in our heads but unless we have someehitng on paper (mine is very brief lol) then how do parents know that we don't plonk their children in front of the TV all day ? . I do think there needs to be standardisation ascross the board otherwise , like pipsqueek says , we'll end up with a 2 tier system. EYFS really doesn't have to complicated ......Honest

Even without paperwork my parents know that I don't plonk their children in front of the TV all day. I think the children would soon let on if that was the case! I don't need paperwork to show them what I do.

And even though EYFS has been in force since September, there are still childminders who don't follow it. Talking at our group I know there are many cm who keep saying they haven't even started on EYFS & I've seen people say it on this forum. EYFS clearly hasn't created standardisation.

[Mouse]

But that is exactly the point Mouse - EYFS will and is starting to weed out those childminders who only do the right noises and moves in front of Ofsted. So by doing EYFS it is giving you (me and the rest of us) the opportunity to be professional and those who can't be bothered (note I have said not bothered, not can't do or struggling) to even open their packs, go on training or even to actually understand about child development etc then yes, its showing you and me for what we are - good childminders. Arrrgghh think I am explaining this wrong.

But it isn't weeding them out. I have a friend who put on the act when Ofsted was coming & got graded Good. She didn't do EYFS before, made up the paperwork, then put it all away again when Ofsted had been. As she said, by the time they come again she'll have all new children, so will make it up again then!
She is a very popular childminder who has very happy children & parents. None of them are interested in EYFS and couldn't care less whether she does it or not. I bet she's not the only one like this.

Wouldn't it be better if these people could opt out of doing EYFS rather than lying about doing it?

[Mouse]

As to us questioning it - ok then have you read the research behind it? As with anything there are pros and cons but some of the research is really quite good and informative.

I admit that I have read very little about the research behind it. Even if it has good points though, who is to say that this is the ONLY way to do it?

[Pipsqueak]

Thats the beauty about research Mouse - it to make your own mind up about, search out stuff that is relevant to both sides of the argument, theory is open to interpretation. Ok I only know all this because I have done y1 FD but I have found it fascinating to link in what I was doing and why I was doing stuff (and why children do things) to some concrete theory and research. So much of it suddenly makes sense - well to me it does anyway. Its nice to know that what I have done with my own children and what I applied to mindees actually was the right tracks.

A lot of the newer research bears out established theory as well.

Of course its not the only way of doing things but who is to say that other countries and education systems are the right way. I think we all have a lot to learn from each other - perhaps one day we will all live in a perfect world where we get it right from the start.

Like you I know minders who say and do the right things in front of the right people at the right time but at the end of the day - they are cheating themselves, their clients, most of all the children and they WILL (and it will happen) come unstuck. I know that I work to the best of my abilities and offer a great service and I know that is reflected in my documentation and my verbal knowledge and my actions - and (I don't mean to sound bigheaded) I can far outshine these fair weather colleagues.

I certainly don't mean any of this to sound awful towards those minders who are wanting or willing to give EYFS a go and I will 100% each and every time give my support and assistance to these people. There is huge difference between those trying/wanting to do it and those who just can't be arsed.

EYFS is what you make of it

[Mouse]

Its nice to know that what I have done with my own children and what I applied to mindees actually was the right tracks.

So you don't really need the guidance of EYFS as you've got it right all along. You didn't need EYFS then, so why do you need it now

[clorogue]

And I agree that jobs change, but think of any other self employed occupation. If there was suddenly a huge change that they had to comply with, I bet there would be uproar. For childminders we all just go along with what Ofsted say without questioning whether or not it's right for us or the children.

Absolutely right Mouse! It isn't working for a lot of people, yes there are good things in the EYFS which I do completely naturally. I have just heard of two more childminders (and they are definitely good!) which are leaving today because of the paperwork. Yes we have to move forward and evolve but change has got to be for the better, the EYFS is too controversial for it to work for all childminders, but only time will tell.

[clorogue]

So you don't really need the guidance of EYFS as you've got it right all along. You didn't need EYFS then, so why do you need it now

So right again!! My son came up to me the other day when I was doing the paperwork (he is 14) and he said Mum the inspector just needs to talk and look at us and see what a good job you have done - it brought tears to my eyes! My parents aren't interested. They know the good job I am doing and I put my heart and soul into the children and their well-being in every respect when they are here and the parents know that.

I was speaking to an advisor the other day and she said that I had everything in place, much more than a lot of childminders in the area. I must admit that it made me feel a lot better, but what does that comment tell you!

[Pipsqueak]

So you don't really need the guidance of EYFS as you've got it right all along. You didn't need EYFS then, so why do you need it now

As a childminder - I say that we do need loud and clear guidelines for EVERYBODY to be working to because otherwise you are going to get 2nd rate childcare from some places and that is not what Every Child Matters is all about. EVERY child does matter especially for those of us working in disadvantaged areas.
I don't just support the children, I often support families through various schemes and capacities and currently (in a normal childminding context) I have one parent who is not particuarly aware of EYFS but loves looking through the LJ and thinks its wonderful that I know so much about her child, the other parent is quite into all of this and it has reassured her that I am giving the best possible service (she has had quite a horrific time with an previous childminder).
Families I support, it gives me a clear basis on which to start helping these children and families and I can use EYFS to help the parents to start understanding their childs development.

As Debbie rightly says - its about the child, not the adult(s).

As a parent I am pleased to know that I am going along the same road - so it has given me clarfication.

Clorogue - why isn't it working for some people? Is it because they don't understand it through whatever reason do you think. Do you think the hype about it made people fear it more. Any big changes anywhere can so often rely on the attitudes towards its - I always find its easier to have a positive outlook and try to rise to the challenge before condeming something.
If people are doing tons of paperwork - its because they are doing too much. Great for those who enjoy the paperwork (and there are some of us ) and thats well and good for them but I honestly do believe EYFS is what you make of it.
Also what does your advisors comment say - to me it says you are doing all the right things and have risen to the challenge as opposed to perhaps some other minders who are happy doing what they are doing. Yes time will tell won't it.

Any new system needs time to bed in, get reflected upon and change, improve or leave as necessary. Lets give it chance.