A CHILDMINDER NOT WANTING TO DO EYFS

[Pipsqueak]

still well and truly proud to be in that sand aren't you hun

[Andrea08]

hi sorry just coming into this thread,,

may i say that most cm's that dont understand or want to do the EYFS are the cm's that are not members of this forum or have a support in their LA

if each and every one of us were left on our own to understand and deliver EYFS how would you feel?

if you were not accredited and not using the foundation stage framework (as was i) and going by the birth to 3 framwork and suddenly told "not b4 but ON sept 08" you have to do EYFS what a fright that would be.

i have some support from my LA but still felt the need to seek help hence sarah found me wondering and i joined this forum for support ,,

so for thoes who have no support i understand why they feel as they do and are against EYFS and their LA has no understanding of change management.

we must try and put ourselves in the shoes of the cm's who dont have support, and try to understand what they must be feeling and trying to comply with.

xxxxxxx

[Chatterbox Childcare]

lol! Nothing argumentative about it! We all have our own opinions, and this just happens to be mine

Don't forget that most of the people on here are here because they take their job seriously, want to do well and want to do everything as it should be done. They accept EYFS as being part of their job & work with it (whether they like it or not). But there are lots of childminders out there who would just like to get on with the job of looking after children without having to work to a particular framework. It might only take '10 minutes per child' once your paperwork is in place, but I bet it took an awful lot longer to get it there.

Yes, working to a framework makes us a lot more professional, but can you honestly say that the children are better off now that we have EYFS than they were before? I haven't changed a great deal about the way I work, so I don't feel the children have benefitted at all. All the differences are in the way I record things, not in the way I look after the children.

As I said, just my opinion!

It did take me a while to do it but it was worth it. When Birth-3 came in I did an extended course of 16 hours over 8 weeks which was in my time but hopefully it made me a better professional and I am sure everyone on the forum is the same but can this be said of others who don't like the EYFS? You reap what you sow.

I think that the EYFS is about what we can do for the child development and not what is has created extra for us. By introducing the EYFS it should ensure that every child gets the chance to develop and it is through play after all.

I hope that the childminders who are struggling ask for help. Old dogs can be taught new tricks.

[Mouse]

It did take me a while to do it but it was worth it. When Birth-3 came in I did an extended course of 16 hours over 8 weeks which was in my time but hopefully it made me a better professional and I am sure everyone on the forum is the same but can this be said of others who don't like the EYFS? You reap what you sow.

I think that the EYFS is about what we can do for the child development and not what is has created extra for us. By introducing the EYFS it should ensure that every child gets the chance to develop and it is through play after all.

I hope that the childminders who are struggling ask for help. Old dogs can be taught new tricks.

You were very lucky to have had the opportunity to do an extended course, many people wouldn't have had the chance. I know I didn't.
You seem to be saying that people who don't want to follow EYFS are too basically too lazy, or can't be bothered. As another poster says, perhaps they haven't had the support that you have. Don't forget, not all childminders are like you - just because you were able to understand & implement EYFS doesn't mean everyone is able to. For many it's not just a case of being taught new tricks. If the support isn't there, who's going to teach them?

You are clearly a very professional childminder, but does that make you any better than someone who doesn't follow EYFS? I bet there are a lot of minders out there who only do it when Ofsted is due, but they are still nurturing the children through play (as they have always done).

The good childminders who have always worked for the benefit of the children will continue to do so with or without EYFS. The childminders who don't take such a professional approach never will, no matter how many different frameworks are thrown at them.

[angeldelight]

I am really enjoing reading this debate

Really interesing views here

Angel xx

[Pipsqueak]

You were very lucky to have had the opportunity to do an extended course, many people wouldn't have had the chance. I know I didn't.
You seem to be saying that people who don't want to follow EYFS are too basically too lazy, or can't be bothered. As another poster says, perhaps they haven't had the support that you have. Don't forget, not all childminders are like you - just because you were able to understand & implement EYFS doesn't mean everyone is able to. For many it's not just a case of being taught new tricks. If the support isn't there, who's going to teach them?

You are clearly a very professional childminder, but does that make you any better than someone who doesn't follow EYFS? I bet there are a lot of minders out there who only do it when Ofsted is due, but they are still nurturing the children through play (as they have always done).

The good childminders who have always worked for the benefit of the children will continue to do so with or without EYFS. The childminders who don't take such a professional approach never will, no matter how many different frameworks are thrown at them.

I agree with you Mouse that sadly in some areas there isn't the training or support that there should be. We are extremely lucky in my area that we have TONS of support and training on offer - IF you can be bothered to take it up. Out of 25 EYFS training sessions (some of them 3 week courses) offered since July 08, out of 165 childminders in the area - only 24 childminders attended 4 or more sessions. The CDO's constantly send out letters to all childminders reminding them how and where they can get support and they (the CDO's) are available to come out to the minders if they can't get to the training sessions. The take up is minimal.

In my experience - out of the 25 or so minders on 'my patch' (I am a support/vacancy minder) - I would say that 15 or so of them have not even opened their EYFS packs - I have resorted to asking them when they ask me questions - have you looked at your pack.... its on page xxx - the answer that I get back from most of them???? No its still in its wrapper, I don't understand this EY thingy. So in essence - there really is no helping people is there. I arranged to go and see one such lady - who rung me in the morning and told me not to bother as she has already had help from her friend (who recently received and inadequate 1) and she doesn't really want to know any more.

I appreciate that there are minders out there who WANT to do a good job and they are perhaps not lucky enough to even have had access to this wonderful forum.

[Cammie Doodle]

Ah Bless our Poor Sisters.
Good Luck at Hospital, I had to wear B/P monitor for 24 hrs, when they read print out they asked waht had I been doing at 3.45 I suddenly realised it was all the kids had come in from school lol My B/B must of shot up and machine recorded it lol
Let me know how it goes, be thinking of you.

[angeldelight]

Ah Bless our Poor Sisters.
Good Luck at Hospital, I had to wear B/P monitor for 24 hrs, when they read print out they asked waht had I been doing at 3.45 I suddenly realised it was all the kids had come in from school lol My B/B must of shot up and machine recorded it lol
Let me know how it goes, be thinking of you.

June think you replied on the wrong thread ha ha

Angel xx

[estrelas]

June think you replied on the wrong thread ha ha

Angel xx

Thought i'd clicked wrong somewhere

[Blackhorse]

HI there,
I am from scotland and we don't have eyfs and I would not like to think that that makes all scottish childminders worse than the ones with eyfs..
Just wanted to add this to the debate..

also, I have found out in my previous job that there are many many people that will resist any change that is ''happening to them''.
I was on a team leader course that was discussing change quite extensively and there are loads of things to take into account when implementing change.
I myself like new things so never really understood the problem, but I have seen it happening over and over again....I guess if cms just get told one day...and now you have to do this...many will not react positvely not because of the EYFS itself but because it is a change...

[Chatterbox Childcare]

You were very lucky to have had the opportunity to do an extended course, many people wouldn't have had the chance. I know I didn't.

You seem to be saying that people who don't want to follow EYFS are too basically too lazy, or can't be bothered. As another poster says, perhaps they haven't had the support that you have. Don't forget, not all childminders are like you - just because you were able to understand & implement EYFS doesn't mean everyone is able to. For many it's not just a case of being taught new tricks. If the support isn't there, who's going to teach them?

You are clearly a very professional childminder, but does that make you any better than someone who doesn't follow EYFS? I bet there are a lot of minders out there who only do it when Ofsted is due, but they are still nurturing the children through play (as they have always done).

The good childminders who have always worked for the benefit of the children will continue to do so with or without EYFS. The childminders who don't take such a professional approach never will, no matter how many different frameworks are thrown at them.

I contacted the college for the training and asked them to put it on and then I paid for it - sometimes it pays to be pro active. I appreciate that not all childminders know this but that is what DO's are for.

I do not think I am in a position to judge anyone else but myself and I cannot see anywhere that I state or infer that people who do not follow the EYFS are lazy - I thought I had said that maybe they need more support! There is money there - the councils are given it. There are DO's being paid for - why not use these resources.

Recently Hertfordshire childminders were struggling to get training but after a few calls I found out that the training is there. It is only a phone call so why don't childminders who need help ask for it?

I think that the EYFS is important for the children. If people want to sit and play with children then that is fine as long as they use the framework of the EYFS. Studies have shown that we need to develop the children in the early years age group as this is when they develop and learn the most.

At the end of the day whether people do or don't do it is down to them and let them be judged by Ofsted when they call and if they get an inadequate maybe they will rethink their choice of work.

After all, as previously said, this is not about the childminder it is about the children.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Another question - what is so hard about the EYFS?

I think I will start a new thread....

[Mouse]

[QUOTE=DebbieS26;430029]
I think that the EYFS is important for the children. If people want to sit and play with children then that is fine as long as they use the framework of the EYFS. Studies have shown that we need to develop the children in the early years age group as this is when they develop and learn the most.

QUOTE]


So what about children who don't go into childcare? Are they disadvantaged because their parents aren't required to follow EYFS?

I think you have a very blinkered approach to how some childminders' situations. You are clearly dedicated to your job & will put a massive amount of effort into getting training etc. Not all childminders want to be phoning round pushing for training courses to be run. That doesn't make them bad childminders. Many areas have very little help with reguard to training and the development officers often know much less than the childminders.

To you, EYFS is not hard. To me, it's not hard. But to some people it is very hard to get their heads around it. I think a lot of it is commonsense and what I was doing anyway. I don't need a framework to tell me how to give children a good start in life. The problem is that most good childminders were already doing what they needed to, but they panic now that it's given a fancy title & so much emphasis is put on it. The bad childminders will continue to be bad, the good ones will continue to be good. EYFS isn't going to change that.

[Mouse]

xxxmistakexxx

[Chatterbox Childcare]

[QUOTE=Mouse;430048]

I think that the EYFS is important for the children. If people want to sit and play with children then that is fine as long as they use the framework of the EYFS. Studies have shown that we need to develop the children in the early years age group as this is when they develop and learn the most.

QUOTE]


So what about children who don't go into childcare? Are they disadvantaged because their parents aren't required to follow EYFS?

I think you have a very blinkered approach to how some childminders' situations. You are clearly dedicated to your job & will put a massive amount of effort into getting training etc. Not all childminders want to be phoning round pushing for training courses to be run. That doesn't make them bad childminders. Many areas have very little help with reguard to training and the development officers often know much less than the childminders.

To you, EYFS is not hard. To me, it's not hard. But to some people it is very hard to get their heads around it. I think a lot of it is commonsense and what I was doing anyway. I don't need a framework to tell me how to give children a good start in life. The problem is that most good childminders were already doing what they needed to, but they panic now that it's given a fancy title & so much emphasis is put on it. The bad childminders will continue to be bad, the good ones will continue to be good. EYFS isn't going to change that.

I do not have a blinkered approach - all I am saying is that if you need help ask for it. Childminders may need to be pro active thats all - nothing in this world comes to those who wait.

I understand that childminders struggle - I am a support worker, an area representative who liases with the council to fight for what we need, a member of a network - all unpaid and I am happy to do this. The most common question I get it "Where do I start?". I help with a checklist and this I think is something the powers to be could produce as a starting point.

What I do not understand is what is so hard about the EYFS? I think it isn't and those who say it is need to have it explained or give it a go and they will see how easy it is.

Those good childminders who you say are doing it already - what more do they need to do then?

[Mouse]

Like I said, I don't find EYFS hard. I think it's common sense & I'm quite happy to do all the paperwork that goes with it. I know you don't HAVE to do a lot of paperwork, but I wanted a good grade, so I do it. I don't for one minute believe I'd have got such a good grade if I'd only had the minimum amount of paperwork.

I would think most childminders registered in order to look after children, not to have to get pro-active & fight for training and support! You are happy to do that, but most don't want to. I too am a support minder and have helped many minders who have had a sudden panic thinking they can't do EYFS, when infact they already do. It is easy - it's basically what you naturally do. You see what the children can do and plan to move them on a bit, or to include their interests in the activities you offer. You get different toys out for different ages & development - bingo, you're planning & taking individual needs into account! The hardest bit for me is trying to convince minders that they are already doing EYFS. They also worry that they're not covering all the areas of learning, when actually they are. It's because they don't understand it, despite training.

I think the problem is not actually implementing EYFS, it's understanding how to fit what you already do to cover all the areas. And then having all the paperwork to back up what you do, because let's be honest, we all have to do much more than the minimum required.

And like I said somewhere before, are the children really any better off now that EYFS has been introduced? The good minders will continue as they did before (just with a lot more paperwork), and the 'bad' minders (we all know the sort!) won't use EYFS as it's supposed to be anyway. I know my business is run a lot better now that I am using EYFS - everything is in place, I have written planning to refer to etc. But not everyone wants to work that way. They want to take each day as it comes, go with the flow and have a much more relaxed approach. It might not seem as professional, but it doesn't mean it's not as good. I feel that we're all being standardised to make it easier for Ofsted to grade us!

I respect what you are saying and think this is one area where we will have to agree to disagree!

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Like I said, I don't find EYFS hard. I think it's common sense & I'm quite happy to do all the paperwork that goes with it. I know you don't HAVE to do a lot of paperwork, but I wanted a good grade, so I do it. I don't for one minute believe I'd have got such a good grade if I'd only had the minimum amount of paperwork.

I would think most childminders registered in order to look after children, not to have to get pro-active & fight for training and support! You are happy to do that, but most don't want to. I too am a support minder and have helped many minders who have had a sudden panic thinking they can't do EYFS, when infact they already do. It is easy - it's basically what you naturally do. You see what the children can do and plan to move them on a bit, or to include their interests in the activities you offer. You get different toys out for different ages & development - bingo, you're planning & taking individual needs into account! The hardest bit for me is trying to convince minders that they are already doing EYFS. They also worry that they're not covering all the areas of learning, when actually they are. It's because they don't understand it, despite training.

I think the problem is not actually implementing EYFS, it's understanding how to fit what you already do to cover all the areas. And then having all the paperwork to back up what you do, because let's be honest, we all have to do much more than the minimum required.

And like I said somewhere before, are the children really any better off now that EYFS has been introduced? The good minders will continue as they did before (just with a lot more paperwork), and the 'bad' minders (we all know the sort!) won't use EYFS as it's supposed to be anyway. I know my business is run a lot better now that I am using EYFS - everything is in place, I have written planning to refer to etc. But not everyone wants to work that way. They want to take each day as it comes, go with the flow and have a much more relaxed approach. It might not seem as professional, but it doesn't mean it's not as good. I feel that we're all being standardised to make it easier for Ofsted to grade us!

I respect what you are saying and think this is one area where we will have to agree to disagree!

Is this not what the EYFS is about - I know that I didn't always have something ready and that time was lost in the day?

Saying that I also understand where you are coming from and think we are saying the same thing.

Fun discussing it though!

[Winnie]

I think you maybe missing the point (or maybe i have it wrong ). There are plenty of people out there who strongly disagree with the EYFS, some of them are childminders. Some brave souls have stood up to be counted, & as the headlines have said, this childminder lost her battle. Now she (or may not) examined the issue before deciding the EYFS is against her ethos, but she did it by the correct route- she did not sit with her fingers in her ears with her eyes closed & hope the EYFS would go away. I think we should applaud her for standing her ground. Of course there are some childminders who will not bother to implement the EYFS because they do not understand it, think its nothing to do with them or are just lazy...but there are plenty who do not agree with the whole-sell control of our health, education and life-style that this government seem hell bent on enforcing on us. The EYFS is almost impossible to avoid. If as a parent you disagree with the principles you only have one real choice & that is to keep you child at home. In a free country we are supposed to have choice. The EYFS is incompatible with the Steiner ethos, some children do exceptionally well in Stiener nursery, but if they are forced to adhere to the EYFS those children will lose out. As you can tell i am opposed to the EYFS, it has some wonderful bits but is too restrictive & should not (imho) be 'law'. There should be a lawful alternative- other than keeping the child at home. I will implement the EYFS to the best of my ability because it is the law, but i do not agree with it. Grouping every childminder who does not want to implement the EYFS into one group & labelling them in someway 'sub-standard' is very narrow minded- imho of course.

[Cammie Doodle]

June think you replied on the wrong thread ha ha

Angel xx

oops My head is a shed . Sorry everyone
Really good debate
Think I had better not reply to anything for now as I may say the wrong thing or put the wrong thing in the wrong place

[Pipsqueak]

I think you maybe missing the point (or maybe i have it wrong ). There are plenty of people out there who strongly disagree with the EYFS, some of them are childminders. Some brave souls have stood up to be counted, & as the headlines have said, this childminder lost her battle. Now she (or may not) examined the issue before deciding the EYFS is against her ethos, but she did it by the correct route- she did not sit with her fingers in her ears with her eyes closed & hope the EYFS would go away. I think we should applaud her for standing her ground. Of course there are some childminders who will not bother to implement the EYFS because they do not understand it, think its nothing to do with them or are just lazy...but there are plenty who do not agree with the whole-sell control of our health, education and life-style that this government seem hell bent on enforcing on us. The EYFS is almost impossible to avoid. If as a parent you disagree with the principles you only have one real choice & that is to keep you child at home. In a free country we are supposed to have choice. The EYFS is incompatible with the Steiner ethos, some children do exceptionally well in Stiener nursery, but if they are forced to adhere to the EYFS those children will lose out. As you can tell i am opposed to the EYFS, it has some wonderful bits but is too restrictive & should not (imho) be 'law'. There should be a lawful alternative- other than keeping the child at home. I will implement the EYFS to the best of my ability because it is the law, but i do not agree with it. Grouping every childminder who does not want to implement the EYFS into one group & labelling them in someway 'sub-standard' is very narrow minded- imho of course.

Absolutely - this lady should be appaulded for taking a stand and going down the right route. It would be interesting to see how many people or other settings have obtained an exemption and on what grounds.

I don't think anyone is labelling anyone sub-standard just because they disagree with EYFS and I certainly don't think anyone on here is that narrow-minded or even discourteous but I do think it WILL go a long way to weeding out those who are sub-standard.
I do know one lady on my patch, bless her heart, got an inadequate for her inspection due to her total lack of knowledge and operation of EYFS. Lovely lovely lady, been minding a long while but just didn't think EYFS applied to her.... she is busting a gut to turn things around in her setting and while she doesn't 'get' or understand EYFS she is really putting her heart and soul into it because she loves childminding.
In comparision to the clique; who can jump through all the right hoops by just making the minimal effort required to make themselves look ok to the right people at the right time. These are the minders who shouldn't be minding for a variety of reasons.

In doing my FD, it meant a lot of research into the theory, current and past and it really opened my eyes to EYFS and I can see WHY it is in place.

I do wonder about the children who are not in a Setting though - are they disadvantaged as someone says??

ps am loving this polite, well mannered, adult debate, it is making for interesting reading. I actually feel safe posting my views and thats what is so good about this forum