2 under 1

[Jade89]

hello,

I have 2 boys, aged. 3.5 and one who will be 10 months when I go back to childminding.

My 3yo goes to nursery 9-12 every morning.

I have been asked if I am able to look after a 9 month old from September for 1 day a week, term time only.

I would then obviously have 2 under 1 for 2 months until my youngest turns 1. I have worked in a nursery where I was 'baby room leader' and worked in a ratio of 1:3 so know I am capable. We have a playgroup on the weds morning then would be 5 hours with 3yo home too.

Do you think ofsted would grant this? I've been minding for 2 years. Do I have to apply for a variation?

Tia

[FussyElmo]

You don't apply to ofsted anymore however under the eyfs it states no more than 1 under 1.

[Simona]

hello,

I have 2 boys, aged. 3.5 and one who will be 10 months when I go back to childminding.

My 3yo goes to nursery 9-12 every morning.

I have been asked if I am able to look after a 9 month old from September for 1 day a week, term time only.

I would then obviously have 2 under 1 for 2 months until my youngest turns 1. I have worked in a nursery where I was 'baby room leader' and worked in a ratio of 1:3 so know I am capable. We have a playgroup on the weds morning then would be 5 hours with 3yo home too.

Do you think ofsted would grant this? I've been minding for 2 years. Do I have to apply for a variation?

Tia

If you look at EYFS p21 when it comes to looking after your 'own baby' and another one it should guide you

3.40 If a childminder can demonstrate to parents and/or carers and inspectors, that the individual needs of all the children are being met, then exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby. If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of children under the age of eight being cared for must not exceed six.

Hope this helps

[Jade89]

You don't apply to ofsted anymore however under the eyfs it states no more than 1 under 1.

Yeah I know eyfs it says that, I just know you used to be able to apply if you felt you could provide for them.

[FussyElmo]

Yeah I know eyfs it says that, I just know you used to be able to apply if you felt you could provide for them.

Not since September 2012

Its been left to us to determine the variation however it is down to minders own interpretation however if an inspector disagrees they will mark you down very harshly

[Jade89]

Not since September 2012 Its been left to us to determine the variation however it is down to minders own interpretation however if an inspector disagrees they will mark you down very harshly

Gah ok, thank you.

Would you personally not risk it then? I know it won't be a problem in my head but I don't want to risk it being an issue with ofsted! It would be for 10 days over the couple of months.

[gef918]

Remember that Ofsted will look through all the documentation for the children when they visit, even if your inspection is in 2 years time. Therefore, you could be marked down then for having two under one. I wouldn't want that hanging over my head until one or both of the children left my care.

[Simona]

Jade89...read the first line of 3.40 on p21

3.40 If a childminder can demonstrate to parents and/or carers and inspectors, that the individual needs of all the children are being met, then exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby

We should be very careful in this forum saying that inspectors won't like variations...the EYFS is written by the DfE not Ofsted and inspectors should not make individual interpretation
Many inspectors do interpret the EYFS correctly

Jade89...I know that if you ring Ofsted helpline won't be much help but I would try....or see if someone in your EY team would advise you...I would in your place.

[sarah707]

We should be very careful in this forum saying that inspectors won't like variations.

Sadly moderators on this forum are asked to confidentially support too many of our members who fall foul of variations issues during Ofsted inspections so we speak from bitter experience when we advise our members to exercise caution

While Ofsted are refusing to give definitive advice... and the helpline often gives contradictory advice we have found ... and inspectors ARE using their individual judgement and understanding of the Eyfs... we absolutely cannot advise our members to do things that might cause them to lose their Ofsted gradings or even their registrations

It's not our registrations at risk if we get advice wrong.

.....................

Jade89 I know it's a difficult one and you might lose income as a result but you cannot take on new business to care for 2 children under the age of 1 year.

You can do it for continuity of care in exceptional circumstances - or if you have your own baby - or for sibling babies - but not for a new family.

Hugs xx

[Simona]

Sadly moderators on this forum are asked to confidentially support too many of our members who fall foul of variations issues during Ofsted inspections so we speak from bitter experience when we advise our members to exercise caution

While Ofsted are refusing to give definitive advice... and the helpline often gives contradictory advice we have found ... and inspectors ARE using their individual judgement and understanding of the Eyfs... we absolutely cannot advise our members to do things that might cause them to lose their Ofsted gradings or even their registrations

It's not our registrations at risk if we get advice wrong.

.....................

Jade89 I know it's a difficult one and you might lose income as a result but you cannot take on new business to care for 2 children under the age of 1 year.

You can do it for continuity of care in exceptional circumstances - or if you have your own baby - or for sibling babies - but not for a new family.

Hugs xx

I agree we need to exercise caution and I think I can say I do not advise but ask cms to read the EYFS and ponder on the choice they have and how to get to a variation if appropriate...I did the same this time by copying the relevant section to read

We know inspectors are judging on their own interpretation and hopefully this will have been flagged up at OBC and I will flag it up in London in April as well.

Inspectors have to ensure they read the EYFS properly...if cms are being downgraded wrongly that has to be reported and while the EYFS is being 'revised' we should not miss the opportunity to have clearer wording in it...inspectors should not say we do not like 'variations' but ensure it has been applied properly
If so many get it wrong why is the DfE not addressing this issue?

As said before it is so obscure that variation questions pop up every day...why should it be so when tweaking the words would work much better for cms?...after all we are all trying to help parents.

[bunyip]

I agree with Fussy, Sarah and gef918 on this. Read EYFS and take their advice. I couldn't explain it any better myself and anyway I just packed away the puppets and crayons.

Simona, I understand your campaigning zeal but I don't want to see a CM paddling merrily away up the Rio Excreta whilst we stand by and use it as another example of Ofsted's inconsistency. Just trying to think of the individual, and she's trying to get used to the transition from nursery employee to self-employed CM without running into trouble on day one.

[Simona]

I agree with Fussy, Sarah and gef918 on this. Read EYFS and take their advice. I couldn't explain it any better myself and anyway I just packed away the puppets and crayons.

Simona, I understand your campaigning zeal but I don't want to see a CM paddling merrily away up the Rio Excreta whilst we stand by and use it as another example of Ofsted's inconsistency. Just trying to think of the individual, and she's trying to get used to the transition from nursery employee to self-employed CM without running into trouble on day one.

I am not campaigning Bunyip...if asking for a clearer English version on variations is campaigning and I am certainly not asking anyone to paddle away in confusion
all I am suggesting is to read the EYFS and have copied the paragraph to read and interpret

You said it...Ofsted are inconsistent and that needs to be flagged up...that is what OBC is for....they have listened a bit, they may listen further

If I were in a dilemma on variations I would seek advice and that is what I have suggested
Anyway the revised EYFS is no help whatsoever ...so back to the questions we have been asking for the last 2 years!

[bunyip]

I am not campaigning Bunyip...if asking for a clearer English version on variations is campaigning and I am certainly not asking anyone to paddle away in confusion
all I am suggesting is to read the EYFS and have copied the paragraph to read and interpret

You said it...Ofsted are inconsistent and that needs to be flagged up...that is what OBC is for....they have listened a bit, they may listen further

If I were in a dilemma on variations I would seek advice and that is what I have suggested
Anyway the revised EYFS is no help whatsoever ...so back to the questions we have been asking for the last 2 years!

Pity. I always considered campaigning to be chief amongst your virtues.

[Simona]

Pity. I always considered campaigning to be chief amongst your virtues.

...it's April's fool day tomorrow!

[Jade89]

Sadly moderators on this forum are asked to confidentially support too many of our members who fall foul of variations issues during Ofsted inspections so we speak from bitter experience when we advise our members to exercise caution While Ofsted are refusing to give definitive advice... and the helpline often gives contradictory advice we have found ... and inspectors ARE using their individual judgement and understanding of the Eyfs... we absolutely cannot advise our members to do things that might cause them to lose their Ofsted gradings or even their registrations It's not our registrations at risk if we get advice wrong. ..................... Jade89 I know it's a difficult one and you might lose income as a result but you cannot take on new business to care for 2 children under the age of 1 year. You can do it for continuity of care in exceptional circumstances - or if you have your own baby - or for sibling babies - but not for a new family. Hugs xx

Thanks :-) it's only 1 day so I wouldn't lose much. I may just wait to start up once my lad is 1 as most interest I get is for under 1s! Thanks for your input x

[smurfette]

hello, I have 2 boys, aged. 3.5 and one who will be 10 months when I go back to childminding. My 3yo goes to nursery 9-12 every morning. I have been asked if I am able to look after a 9 month old from September for 1 day a week, term time only. I would then obviously have 2 under 1 for 2 months until my youngest turns 1. I have worked in a nursery where I was 'baby room leader' and worked in a ratio of 1:3 so know I am capable. We have a playgroup on the weds morning then would be 5 hours with 3yo home too. Do you think ofsted would grant this? I've been minding for 2 years. Do I have to apply for a variation? Tia

If it is only for ten days could parents find someone to have Lo those days like a grandparent?

[Jade89]

If it is only for ten days could parents find someone to have Lo those days like a grandparent?

It's for every Wednesday from sept - nov apart from school hols! I guess grandparents would of been their first call!

[Simona]

It's for every Wednesday from sept - nov apart from school hols! I guess grandparents would of been their first call!

I am sure you have made the right decision...the confusing bit is you call it 'my lad'...is it your own child? or a mindee?
I am sure I read it correctly that you have two of your own children? maybe not

Sorry that the revised EYFS has proved no help in clarifying continuity of care or new business...hope it works for you and the family

[FussyElmo]

I am sure you have made the right decision...the confusing bit is you call it 'my lad'...is it your own child? or a mindee?
I am sure I read it correctly that you have two of your own children? maybe not

Jades son is 10 months and the child she wanted to take on is 9 months.

[Simona]

Jades son is 10 months and the child she wanted to take on is 9 months.

Yes Fussy Elmo ...I did ask Jade 89 that question ...maybe you could have given her the chance to come back and reply for herself?
In which case I think you have given the wrong advice to her and hope she looks into it