Childminders going over their numbers
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  1. #21
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    The woman with 9 under 8 is clearly out of order - never mind that she called someone and was worried - she knew exactly what she was doing and if she claims she didn't then she really shouldn't be in charge of children. Its ridiculous - no insurance cover, possible safety issues..............
    I'm not paranoid - the world IS out to get me!

  2. #22
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    Crickey...almost one year on from the introduction of the EYFS 12 we are still very unsure and debating what is the legitimate number to be in our care??
    Wonder what will happen when Truss announces the new ratio for cms???

    I think that some cms have sort of abused the system pretending not to understand...while others I am sure genuinely do not bother to read or find out, many cms are worried about others going over numbers but they do nothing about it...it is not as clear as should be

    There have been plenty of cases where cms have stated publicly they have had an increase since Sept 12 and still do, there are LAs worried but what is their action and we are not sure either if we would report someone with 5 under 5....all very tricky in my view.

    One part of the cynical me thinks they EYFS 12 was written that way to 'trial' the higher ratios for cms...unclear and very much open to interpretation
    The other cynical me says the EYFS may disappear during August to be reborn with a new ratio imbedded in its pages and off we go again to download it and start debating again!!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bindy View Post
    Don;t think I would report any one, unless I see children being abused!
    you would if it was a chilminder who already didn't offer the best level of care and you thought seriuosly that she could not "cope" with 4 never mind 5. I was worried about the children in that sense. I didn't report her for overminding as such, I called and said I've seen this and please could you check that it is done legitimatly.
    if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Juggler View Post
    you would if it was a chilminder who already didn't offer the best level of care and you thought seriuosly that she could not "cope" with 4 never mind 5. I was worried about the children in that sense. I didn't report her for overminding as such, I called and said I've seen this and please could you check that it is done legitimatly.
    I hope this was before this sept, othrwise she would have had to have an inspection. Also before sep we were not able to have 5 under 5 but now it is possible.
    we dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendywu View Post
    I hope this was before this sept, othrwise she would have had to have an inspection. Also before sep we were not able to have 5 under 5 but now it is possible.
    this was after the september changes, after the self variation came in with revised EYFS. She now regularly has 4 but for a few weeks she had the 5 - that's why I reported it. Clearly wasn't done until legit variation as as soon as ofsted called her, it stopped. They didn't visit her, just called. Think she just denied it and they left it but did the trick and she hasn't done it since
    if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got

  6. #26
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    Why not speak with her first? I just think childminders have it tough enough with everyone else looking down at us with out childminders turning on each other. Of course if children were at risk that's a different matter.

  7. #27
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    I wasnt aware you could have 5 under 5 , whatever the reason , I thought the limit was 4

    not that I would want 4 very often , I recently did it for 2 mornings a week and that was enough for me , i was glad when it ended

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bindy View Post
    Don;t think I would report any one, unless I see children being abused!
    I agree, it comes across as jealousy! Some days I have 5, Ofsted are aware and said as its overlapping care it's ok as I have a child who's flexi who's comes different days each week and the other ones are siblings so a variation was done early last year!!! I would not mortified and angry if someone was to report me as I'm doing e wry thing by the book, and wouldn't dream of reporting anyone unless care of the child was not what it should be

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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bindy View Post
    Why not speak with her first? I just think childminders have it tough enough with everyone else looking down at us with out childminders turning on each other. Of course if children were at risk that's a different matter.
    I do understand where you are coming from and a new childminder or one who I believed was unaware I WOULD say something to. However, unfortunately, the attitude of quite a few minders locally is "well if I go over here and there does it matter?" "Why does it matter?" They KNOW that it is wrong but do it anyway. If I raised it, they woudl say only it's only for a few months, etc, etc.

    Then, they know I know they are doing it - I know they are overminding knowingly and so have to report it - but am then in the position that I can't report them because they will KNOW it was me

    When you know a CM who doesn't cope well with 2 children playing up and how she talks to them, you worry about her having 5 under the age of 5. My job is first and foremost to worry about the children.

    as I said I openly said to the ofsted person, "she may be doing it legimately but I don't know that, please just check it out"

    They did, no action was taken, they didn't even visit her but she stopped overminding.
    if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got

  11. #30
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    My inspector actually said that if you went to 7 for a short period of time for continuity of care this would be acceptable(even though I actually said, but the EYFS says...!)

    She said that you MUST have legitimate continuity of care for any variation to ratios, and you will be inspected intensely to make sure you are providing quality care and coping. Even so was still shocked at 7!

  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleAcornsThatcham View Post
    My inspector actually said that if you went to 7 for a short period of time for continuity of care this would be acceptable(even though I actually said, but the EYFS says...!)

    She said that you MUST have legitimate continuity of care for any variation to ratios, and you will be inspected intensely to make sure you are providing quality care and coping. Even so was still shocked at 7!
    some years ago I rang Ofsted as I would be at 7 under 8 for 6 weeks, one hour afterschool, once a week, 2 of the children would then turn 8 within a week of each other ( so not all little ones ) there was absolutely no way at all that they would allow this! one chap I spoke to a lot agreed it was madness and suggested that my DH register as my assistant and work from home that afternoon so I was legally covered! I am astounded that an inspector said it was ok!

  13. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleAcornsThatcham View Post
    My inspector actually said that if you went to 7 for a short period of time for continuity of care this would be acceptable(even though I actually said, but the EYFS says...!)

    She said that you MUST have legitimate continuity of care for any variation to ratios, and you will be inspected intensely to make sure you are providing quality care and coping. Even so was still shocked at 7!
    I really surprised you were told this. Usually Ofsted are very insistent that you can't ever go over 6 under 8s.

  14. #33
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    Me too, but she is a very experienced inspector. It may be a case unfortunately of Ofsted themselves each interpretating it differently. She's also known to be strict so if she came out and inspected your records and saw you'd taken advantage of it she would definitely come down on you.

  15. #34
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    I have been having 4 under 5yrs 4 days a week from Feb-July due to two parents needing an extra day. I knew it would only be for a short while and truthfully it has completely knackered me out. I've managed fine but I've had to stop my toddler group visit on a thursday because I knew I couldn't watch 4 in a church. So weve been staying in which has been hard but I knew it would only be for 5months and back to normal after the summer.

    On two occasions I've had 5 due to granny breaking her leg and that was a really hard day. I don't know how anyone can do that for any longer than a couple of days. Its fine if I just let them play but trying to paint,feed,nappy change,toilet,go outside while two want to stay inside its a long tough day. I was like a headless chicken.

    So by September I will be back to 3 everyday and I cant wait....its going to be bliss
    Time Out.. The perfect time for thinking about what you're going to destroy next.

  16. #35
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    I rang Ofsted a couple of years ago.
    A parent asked me to have their child on a different daydue to a change at work but that would mean I would have 7 under 8 for about 25mins and my 7yr old mindee turned 8yrs the next day so basically it was hours before he turned 8.
    They said definitely no
    Time Out.. The perfect time for thinking about what you're going to destroy next.

  17. #36
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    Well I will have 5 under 5 in December under continuity of care (siblings)
    Do I sound crazy?????
    Well, before anyone jumps to any conclusion; this is how it looks in reality:

    Will only be for 3 days per week (Wed, Thu, Fri)

    Between 9-12, 3 will be in preschool
    After lunch at 12.30 all will nap at 13.00
    (4 currently do and sibling does too, at home with mum at moment) in order to coincide with his brother at weekends!)
    I have travel cots for 4 (my dd2 sleeps on sofa)
    I have a 7 seat car
    1 will use a buggy
    1 will use a buggy board
    3 will walk - the 2 second journey from car to preschool

    Now, if this were 5 days per week 8-6 and with school runs and lots of walking to do, I wouldn't dream of entertaining such work!

  18. #37
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    So glad I'm in Scotland the rules are clear, only three under fives and no exceptions! Not even continuity of care..

  19. #38
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    I hadn't quite finished!!!!

    But everyone's circumstances and abilities are different!
    I NEVER feel bad for taking work from other childminders because that is out of my hands! If a parent chooses me over another minder then that's up to them!
    The rules apply to us all! And providing we stick to the legalities, Some are able to successfully care for many, some would die at the thought of more than three!
    It is totally up to the individual and the parents that choose us!
    I can't help it if I'm popular! (I worked darn hard to get here!!!)

    Ps. I have acceptance forms signed by parents and very detailed policy on 5under5 including a comprehensive risk assessment!!

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  21. #39
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    Wouldn't want 5 or 6 under 5. I have 4 sometimes but my preferred number is 3.

    I would spend all day running around or changing nappies which isn't thinking of the individual child or their development.

    Note - this is just me and I am not judging anyone else.
    Debbie

  22. #40
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    I have three under two and wouldn't want to take on any more. Don't know how people do it. I wouldn't want to go out with 4 as three is hard enough. So it would always mean a day at home which is fine one or two days a week but I like to get out and about alot so wouldn't like it

 

 
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