Variations and the revised EYFS

[sarah707]

Why have ofsted removed the age group and numbers from our registrations in the first place, everyone i speak have been conufsed by this and what how many they are allowed to care for, when i have spoken to ofsted i didnt get a clear answer and think this will only lead to people taking on more children they should have.

Unfortunately it has caused a lot of confusion - and is leading to a lot of complaints made against childminders for overminding.

However, a decision was made and ours is not to reason why!

Welcome to the forum

[Tweetybird]

Why have ofsted removed the age group and numbers from our registrations in the first place, everyone i speak have been conufsed by this and what how many they are allowed to care for, when i have spoken to ofsted i didnt get a clear answer and think this will only lead to people taking on more children they should have.

Hello I was confused too thinking that our numbers have been removed so we as Childminders can decide how we take on children as long as we stayed within our ratio of no more than six. I just confirmed with a mum that i could have her son on a Tuesday where I would have 4 under fives with one leaving by 1pm. (They are aged 2.5/1/18months and this by is three and will be four next month). Was thinking of getting a tripple buggy and the little boy is a very able walking/running child.

I'm going to have to call her tomorrow to let her know i can't do Tuesday unless he started at or after 1pm on Tuesdays.

After reading the statutory Framework again and some of the other support paperwork on the forum, I see that I have been misled too.

Hope she is ok to change her time or day.

Lucky thing I came on her to check again to be sure.

Thanks all.

[jadavi]

Final question (joke as people will keep asking)

ForOfsted to be happy- is it ok if I have a sign up stating when i have granted myself a variation for parents to see.? ( This is what I am doing now)
Do I need signed permission from all parents to approve my variations?
Do I need a written risk assessment? (have done that in my head)

Apologies Sarah if this falls to you again to answer...

[sarah707]

Final question (joke as people will keep asking)

ForOfsted to be happy- is it ok if I have a sign up stating when i have granted myself a variation for parents to see.? ( This is what I am doing now)

My understanding is that you need some way of showing Ofsted that you have consulted with parents, reassured them that their child will receive high quality care, attention, learning etc while the change to your ratios is in operation - and listened to / considered their replies.

There is nothing from Ofsted to say how you must do this - but I would suggest getting it in writing - parents have a habit of changing their minds about verbal agreements when / if something goes wrong.

Do I need signed permission from all parents to approve my variations?

As above

Do I need a written risk assessment? (have done that in my head)

My understanding is that you must have a risk assessment. Ofsted documents do not state that RAs must be in writing.

The advice from Ofsted is clear - you might feel that you want something in writing so you can show it as evidence to inspectors - but the EYFS does not specifically require it.

I would say - put it in writing. During a stressful situation such as an Ofsted compliance visit to check your numbers you might struggle to explain yourself verbally if you do not have anything in writing.

Ofsted | Factsheet: childcare - Requirements for risk assessments

Apologies Sarah if this falls to you again to answer...

I hope that helps... and I really don't mind!

[Loushah]

I advised parents about my variation to increase numbers in 3 ways:- verbally, my monthly newsletter & on my website.....would this have been sufficient?

[sarah707]

I advised parents about my variation to increase numbers in 3 ways:- verbally, my monthly newsletter & on my website.....would this have been sufficient?

Did you reassure them that their child's learning and development would be fully met while you were caring for more children?

Did you give them the opportunity to tell you that they weren't happy?

Those are things that Ofsted are apparently looking for

[jadavi]

I had a written notice of variation that parents signed that sits in my attendance register every day to be seen. I explained to parents how the extra child was being covered and how nothing will change for their child

[sarah707]

I had a written notice of variation that parents signed that sits in my attendance register every day to be seen. I explained to parents how the extra child was being covered and how nothing will change for their child

Sounds good to me!

[crazysally]

I too have a variation query. I currently look after 3 under 5's. Two of which will move onto school in September. The cousin (under 5) of a little boy i look after has been given notice by his childminder and they would like me to provide care. They would need 2 days per week and then will move to 5 days in September. My question is this as they are cousins would this be permitted as it is extended family or would this be seen as new business. Yes i know i can do it and risk assess accordingly along with getting parents permission. The family are very keen for me to mind both cousins and one Auntie would pick up both children at the end of day, so essentially like siblings. I understand the variations but not sure how cousins would be viewed by Ofsted?
Thanks

[sarah707]

I too have a variation query. I currently look after 3 under 5's. Two of which will move onto school in September. The cousin (under 5) of a little boy i look after has been given notice by his childminder and they would like me to provide care. They would need 2 days per week and then will move to 5 days in September. My question is this as they are cousins would this be permitted as it is extended family or would this be seen as new business. Yes i know i can do it and risk assess accordingly along with getting parents permission. The family are very keen for me to mind both cousins and one Auntie would pick up both children at the end of day, so essentially like siblings. I understand the variations but not sure how cousins would be viewed by Ofsted?
Thanks

My understanding of the requirements is that you can only offer a variation for either siblings or continuity of care.

xx

[crazysally]

Thank you Sarah x

[emily79]

My co-minder and I were registered in old times for 8 children with the certificate saying of these 8 we could have 4 under 1s if needed as we both have extensive experience with babies, that we could have 6 under 5s and 2 5-7s we asked for some variations as we have children on flexi contracts as parents work different shifts each week and sometimes we needed more than 6 spaces which ofsted granted us to have 7 under 8's all week as long as we proved they were all cared for we have just contacted ofsted today as we have just had a child change days which now means for 2 hours on a tuesday 4 of the 7 will be in bed we will be over ofsted didnt help read the fact sheet they said as long as they are cared for and parents know its ok but reading the paragraph its says to in the revised eyfs it says we cant CONFUSING!

[kp0781]

I have a variation to look after a sibling baby of z child I already look after. I have 4 under 4 in total. A 3 yr old and 10 mo my own and a 3 yr old and 10 mo (sisters). I only have these children and I looked after the older girl before having my own baby. I have a written ra to show things like getting the children into the car safely, road safety etc. I have plenty of equipment and a separate room the older girls can use. My understanding is you cAn only go over numbers to look after a sibling of a child you already look after. I found Sarah's info on this to be helpful thanksx

[danast]

Ok This may sound stupid now to ask But I have taken on baby for september(mondays and tuesdays) ,We have agreed mutually (not in writing ie contract yet)that little one will start in September so I will have 3 under 5 which is fine ,but one of my current mindees(4yrs old) wants to swap from wednesdays to Tuesdays from 19th of August. He is going to school in September anyway and as of October he would class after schooler because he will be there full time. Does it mean I have to turn down the baby now ,as there is nothing in writing and theoreticaly I have space to change to tuesdays?Who takes priority?
Hope I have not confused anyone with this . He had a sibling with me as well but he is going to someone else asI have no space for all of them and I will not have so many children as I would not provide quality care.

[sarah707]

Ok This may sound stupid now to ask But I have taken on baby for september(mondays and tuesdays) ,We have agreed mutually (not in writing ie contract yet)that little one will start in September so I will have 3 under 5 which is fine ,but one of my current mindees(4yrs old) wants to swap from wednesdays to Tuesdays from 19th of August. He is going to school in September anyway and as of October he would class after schooler because he will be there full time. Does it mean I have to turn down the baby now ,as there is nothing in writing and theoreticaly I have space to change to tuesdays?Who takes priority?
Hope I have not confused anyone with this . He had a sibling with me as well but he is going to someone else asI have no space for all of them and I will not have so many children as I would not provide quality care.

As things stand NOW you can only offer an extra under 5 space for continuity of care - so if you know that you will have 3 under 5 you cannot take on a new child to attend the same session.

Are baby's parents flexible on days?

Making a financial decision with your business head on - put your emotions in the cupboard a moment - will baby be worth a lot more to you in the long run than a child who is due to start school?

Can you work with an assistant through the holidays?

IF the rules change in Sept as Ms Truss wants them to, then you will have more flexibility.

Hth

[danast]

Hi the baby will not start till september but i have told her first i will be fine as i currently only have 2 under 5 on tuesdays. And now my current mindees mum asking if i would have both kids (which are currently in my care 4 yrs old and 18mth sold) on tuesdays instead of fridays
I did tell her i already got someone from september and there is no way i could look after 4 children under 2 plus her older one which will go to school in sept. So that mum gave me notice for the younger one but letting me keep the older one as when he starts fullt time at school in pirbright i will have to do school run. Feel a bit hurt cause they currently coming wed,thursday and fridays but because i cant offer her tuesday and she doesnt want work fridays,she pulled one out.
However i dont want turn down the baby for the sake of 4 weeks and then all numbers will be fine.
I feel it us really unfair because i have explained to my mindees mum that if i let her swap from fridays to tuesday i will not be able to fill my friday 3 vacancies.
So she still pulled him out .
I have probably confused u all
But i dont wnt to loose the older mindee for the sake of 4 weeks and font want to loose baby.The baby was decided since march. And now this mindees mum messing around .
I thought variation would be the answer as he is four but because he will change his day in august and baby will not start till sept. Not sure it would look like vsriation

[sarah707]

Hi the baby will not start till september but i have told her first i will be fine as i currently only have 2 under 5 on tuesdays. And now my current mindees mum asking if i would have both kids (which are currently in my care 4 yrs old and 18mth sold) on tuesdays instead of fridays
I did tell her i already got someone from september and there is no way i could look after 4 children under 2 plus her older one which will go to school in sept. So that mum gave me notice for the younger one but letting me keep the older one as when he starts fullt time at school in pirbright i will have to do school run. Feel a bit hurt cause they currently coming wed,thursday and fridays but because i cant offer her tuesday and she doesnt want work fridays,she pulled one out.
However i dont want turn down the baby for the sake of 4 weeks and then all numbers will be fine.
I feel it us really unfair because i have explained to my mindees mum that if i let her swap from fridays to tuesday i will not be able to fill my friday 3 vacancies.
So she still pulled him out .
I have probably confused u all
But i dont wnt to loose the older mindee for the sake of 4 weeks and font want to loose baby.The baby was decided since march. And now this mindees mum messing around .
I thought variation would be the answer as he is four but because he will change his day in august and baby will not start till sept. Not sure it would look like vsriation

Danast I have sent you a pm

[lizann]

Hi Sarah hope you can advise me at the moment I have 1 9 year old 2 8 year olds 1 6yearold 1 5year old on mondays from the middle of June a mum wants to move her ddshe will be 6 in july to mondays and wants her son who will be 9 mths old to do just mondays so in total I would have 7 children on a monday can i do this ?all these children are term time only

[sarah707]

Hi Sarah hope you can advise me at the moment I have 1 9 year old 2 8 year olds 1 6yearold 1 5year old on mondays from the middle of June a mum wants to move her ddshe will be 6 in july to mondays and wants her son who will be 9 mths old to do just mondays so in total I would have 7 children on a monday can i do this ?all these children are term time only

Hi Lizann

The over 8s are not part of your Ofsted ratios - your Ofsted ratios cover the amount of children you look after who are under the age of 8.

Childminders are only ever allowed a maximum of 6 children under 8 so with the ratios you have suggested above you are fine from an Ofsted point of view.

HOWEVER - if you care for more than 6 children total at the same time you might need to get planning permission.

Planning permission is a bit of a minefield - and it does depend on local requirements - so in the first instance you should contact your LA and find out about it in more detail.

Hth

[FussyElmo]

Hi Sarah hope you can advise me at the moment I have 1 9 year old 2 8 year olds 1 6yearold 1 5year old on mondays from the middle of June a mum wants to move her ddshe will be 6 in july to mondays and wants her son who will be 9 mths old to do just mondays so in total I would have 7 children on a monday can i do this ?all these children are term time only

Yes because three of the children mentioned are over 8.

so you will have

I under 5
3 in the 5-8 age bracket
and 3 over 8

which actually leaves 2 under 5 spaces