Variations from Sept 2012 - some clarification

**sarah707** · 07-06-2012, 06:17 PM

I have been in conversation with Ofsted about how childminders will manage their own variations from September under the revised EYFS.

This follows on from excellent work already done by Penny1963 - thank you for your feedback Penny!

I have written this document which is correct as of today...

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B13...GRLOGt2Z0NSSkU

If you are still unsure about any aspects of variations please ask!

Ofsted are writing guidance now and the more questions they get the better they will be able to tailor their guidance document to tell us what we need to know!!

Pauline has a copy and is putting it in files

**loocyloo** · 07-06-2012, 06:41 PM

thank you sarah!

**Dragonfly** · 07-06-2012, 06:46 PM

Thank you sarah

**Rubybubbles** · 07-06-2012, 06:53 PM

very helpful to know

thank you Sarah x

Penny1959 · 07-06-2012, 07:36 PM

Thank you Sarah

..... and as my forum name is based on name and year of birth - thank you for making me YOUNGER

Penny

**Playmate** · 07-06-2012, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Penny1959

Thank you Sarah

..... and as my forum name is based on name and year of birth - thank you for making me YOUNGER

Penny

Lol I must have been reading this at the same time as you Penny and thought to myself, Penny will be pleased she is now 4 years younger and only a year older than me now

Sarah and Penny thank you once again for your work and getting some clarrification

**Joda** · 07-06-2012, 08:05 PM

Thank you Sarah

**Zoomie** · 07-06-2012, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by sarah707

I have written this document which is correct as of today...

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B13...GRLOGt2Z0NSSkU

Sorry, Sarah, but when I click the link I get a video about google drive ???

**sarah707** · 07-06-2012, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Zoomie

Sorry, Sarah, but when I click the link I get a video about google drive ???

It should just open the document... sorry I don't know what to suggest. I am happy to email if you pm me your address.

Pauline has it for files so it should be uploaded soon

**angeldelight** · 07-06-2012, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Penny1959

Thank you Sarah

..... and as my forum name is based on name and year of birth - thank you for making me YOUNGER

Penny

That made me laugh too ha ha first a queen then younger

Thanks Sarah

Angel xx

**angeldelight** · 07-06-2012, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Zoomie

Sorry, Sarah, but when I click the link I get a video about google drive ???

Works ok for me

Angel xx

**The Juggler** · 07-06-2012, 09:36 PM

thanks Sarah

**miffy** · 07-06-2012, 09:54 PM

Thanks Sarah.

I would like to know if the rising five clause still specifically relates to a child attending full time school. I care for several 4 yo who may attend school for a full day but are not yet in FTE ( 10 sessions a week) so they would attend before and after a school day - would that mean I would be able to care for them plus another 3 under 5's?

Miffy xx

**childminder54** · 07-06-2012, 10:42 PM

Hi sarah

I think I'm more confused or is it just me. 6 children under 8, only 3 under 5'. But then further done the line it says you can look after 4 as long it not over6. Am I reading this right. Page 7 ratio can be change

Penny1959 · 08-06-2012, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by veronica

Hi sarah

I think I'm more confused or is it just me. 6 children under 8, only 3 under 5'. But then further done the line it says you can look after 4 as long it not over6. Am I reading this right. Page 7 ratio can be change

Yes you are reading it right

The ratios under NORMAL circumstances are as they are now - 3 under 5.

However in exceptional circumstances you can exceed this number but must never have more than 6 under 8 at any one time.

In a nut shell it is the same rule as now - only that now we have to apply to ofsted for a variation and they agree (or not) - from Sept 12 we can make our own decision.

This does not mean that we can all go and take on 6 under 5's - it is just for continuity of care of children we look after with the usual 3 under 5 rule - so extra hours, occassional overlap caused by parent being late, to take on a sibling baby, or care for twins and so on.

Penny

**tashaleee** · 08-06-2012, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Penny1959

Yes you are reading it right

The ratios under NORMAL circumstances are as they are now - 3 under 5.

However in exceptional circumstances you can exceed this number but must never have more than 6 under 8 at any one time.

In a nut shell it is the same rule as now - only that now we have to apply to ofsted for a variation and they agree (or not) - from Sept 12 we can make our own decision.

This does not mean that we can all go and take on 6 under 5's - it is just for continuity of care of children we look after with the usual 3 under 5 rule - so extra hours, occassional overlap caused by parent being late, to take on a sibling baby, or care for twins and so on.

Penny

Problem I can see is this is going to be totally open to abuse and many childminders will have more than 3 under 5 but 'say' its continuity when its new business

**sarah707** · 08-06-2012, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by miffy

Thanks Sarah.

I would like to know if the rising five clause still specifically relates to a child attending full time school. I care for several 4 yo who may attend school for a full day but are not yet in FTE ( 10 sessions a week) so they would attend before and after a school day - would that mean I would be able to care for them plus another 3 under 5's?

Miffy xx

The definition of a 'normal school day' is on page 3 of my document.

As defined by the DfE it must be 10 sessions a week with a break in the middle - anything else is not classed as a 'normal school day'

Does that answer your question?

**sarah707** · 08-06-2012, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by tashaleee

Problem I can see is this is going to be totally open to abuse and many childminders will have more than 3 under 5 but 'say' its continuity when its new business

You are right and I have spoken to Ofsted about this.

It will be up to the childminder to prove, if challenged, that they have risk assessed each variation they have granted themselves and organised the variation for the right reasons.

Within the risk assessment there is a requirement to speak to current parents and make sure they are happy with the situation. This will remove some of the 'open to abuse' concerns I think because a lot of parents will not be happy with childminders regularly going over numbers... and they know how to complain to Ofsted because we have to tell them!!

Hth

**jumping j** · 08-06-2012, 06:47 AM

Just getting opinions really,

I currently use an assistant on a Friday so that I can care for 5 under 8, they all come on other days and it's only for alternate weeks for a couple of hours in the morning or over lunch due to shift work.

Under the new guidlines could I have them without an assistant?

**sarah707** · 08-06-2012, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by Jumping Jax

Just getting opinions really,

I currently use an assistant on a Friday so that I can care for 5 under 8, they all come on other days and it's only for alternate weeks for a couple of hours in the morning or over lunch due to shift work.

Under the new guidlines could I have them without an assistant?

Would you want to?

Work through the risk assessment which Ofsted gave me - it's in my document - would you be able to meet their needs? Would you be able to keep them safe on your own? What if there was an emergency - would you be able to manage? How would you meet their learning needs during those hours?

As long as you have risk assessed, the parents are happy (I'd get it in writing from them) and you are within the rule of 6 under 8 and it is the exception rather than the norm then the requirements say it is fine.

Hth