Variations from Sept 2012 - some clarification

[sandy64]

hi sarah i cant find it it comes up as google video please could you send it to me if not to much trouble

[sarah707]

hi sarah i cant find it it comes up as google video please could you send it to me if not to much trouble

Yes of course it's sent

[miffy]

The definition of a 'normal school day' is on page 3 of my document.

As defined by the DfE it must be 10 sessions a week with a break in the middle - anything else is not classed as a 'normal school day'

Does that answer your question?

Yes, but it's not the answer I wanted!

Miffy xx

[miffy]

Problem I can see is this is going to be totally open to abuse and many childminders will have more than 3 under 5 but 'say' its continuity when its new business

I think this will happen too - if a cm has a space two days a week and two enquiries both wanting those same two days they could take each child on one day a week then apply the continuity of care rule to allow themselves variations to care for each child on the other day also.

Miffy xx

[sarah707]

Yes, but it's not the answer I wanted!

Miffy xx

I thought not!

[rickysmiths]

Thank you Sarah.

[twise]

Hi Sarah
I too am only get the google video could you send it to me also

Cheers

Tracy

[sarah707]

Hi Sarah
I too am only get the google video could you send it to me also

Cheers

Tracy

Tracy, Pauline has put it in files here -

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/freere...tions2012.html

[notts]

Thank you Sarah

I know nothing of the revised EYFS so need to get to grips with this as I will be inspected against it in September !

I'm a new CM so have been through the IHP etc and discussed at length the framework with the ofsted inspector at my registration visit. But surely there must be some training out there? driven by the local authorties or something? Am I missing this info?

[mama2three]

Thank you Sarah

I know nothing of the revised EYFS so need to get to grips with this as I will be inspected against it in September !

I'm a new CM so have been through the IHP etc and discussed at length the framework with the ofsted inspector at my registration visit. But surely there must be some training out there? driven by the local authorties or something? Am I missing this info?

In notts we are still waiting for some training dates to be offered. But ncmalocal meeting in early July is to discuss the new framework . Its also a great opportunity to meet other local cms , we have people coming from all over notts. pm christinee if youd like to know more. im sure she wont mind

[miffy]

I have heard that in Notts, training won't take place until September after the EYFS starts

The new framework and development matters guidance are in free resources at top of forum if you need to download them

Miffy xx

[Bluebell]

Problem I can see is this is going to be totally open to abuse and many childminders will have more than 3 under 5 but 'say' its continuity when its new business

I think I will continue filling out a variation form or my own version of it so it can be clearly seen which child is increasing hours or which child is sibling and why they need additional hours that overlap. Can also include the risk assessment too then. Having said that think I will have to come up with my own version because theirs is so long winded, confusing and complicated!!! Perhaps if you are in a childminding group or have a mentor you could also get them to co-sign your assessment so to speak so you have someone to back you up - that they thought you were within guidelines too!

My question is about my own child and when he becomes a rising 5. I have just done a separate post about this but am I correct in thinking that normally I would request a new certificate to increase my numbers by 1 when he moves out of the EY group to commence on the 1st September??

[Bluebell]

Thanks Sarah.

I would like to know if the rising five clause still specifically relates to a child attending full time school. I care for several 4 yo who may attend school for a full day but are not yet in FTE ( 10 sessions a week) so they would attend before and after a school day - would that mean I would be able to care for them plus another 3 under 5's?

Miffy xx

We were discussing this at a childminder recently - a local childminder has a variation EVERY YEAR to allow for new children starting but to be able to keep on the children who are in half days until they switch to full time when she is no longer needed. This may not be officially a 'full day' but Ofsted seem to consider them as a rising 5. Perhaps a phone call to Ofsted would confirm the specifics of the circumstances?

[Bluebell]

I think this will happen too - if a cm has a space two days a week and two enquiries both wanting those same two days they could take each child on one day a week then apply the continuity of care rule to allow themselves variations to care for each child on the other day also.

Miffy xx

But surely this is what happens now?! - the child starts and then after a couple of weeks a variation is applied for - the minder knows they will not have the space but knows they can apply for a variation!! Ofsted grant these variations - I asked how long it was that a child came to you before it could be considered continuity of care and one of the minders said a week!! and that is how long she waits and she always gets her continuity of care. I was a bit shocked but then childcare is so limited around here and the childminders are so good at what they do then they are able to get the variation granted. A bit different for me as up until last week I hadn't had my 1st inspection and not as experienced but still - a week!

[Bluebell]

If I take on new business in September and my son is about to start FT school, so long as I stay within ratio of 6 under 8's then this is ok? This is my understanding of scenario 5 on page 7. Am i reading that correctly??
This leaves the half day versus full time education as an irrelevant point because either way you have to be within the numbers of 6 under 8's. Is that correct?
And the answers to the scenarios were from Ofsted themselves?

It sure is confusing and I have to say Sarah I'd be lost without your advice! How do you make sense of it all!!? Thank you for taking so much time to do this and then share your knowledge freely with us on this forum. It is very generous of you.

[sarah707]

My question is about my own child and when he becomes a rising 5. I have just done a separate post about this but am I correct in thinking that normally I would request a new certificate to increase my numbers by 1 when he moves out of the EY group to commence on the 1st September??

Your own child becomes rising 5 at exactly the same time as any other child.

As soon as the child is in 10 sessions a week full time school then they are rising 5... not pre-school, nursery, settling in sessions etc... full time school.

Thank you for your kind words

[zippy]

Hi sarah,

Could you suggest to ofsted that our certificate simply reads 6 under 8 etc, regardless of how many children we have personally, make it clear on certificate that our children count in our numbers like they used too, otherwise I for one and going to have to ring them in sept to say my son is now school age so increase early years then again in dec to say my daughter is now over 8, its just such a waste of everyones time. Thanks

[zippy]

I think I will continue filling out a variation form or my own version of it so it can be clearly seen which child is increasing hours or which child is sibling and why they need additional hours that overlap. Can also include the risk assessment too then.

I agree, if you use their old variation form, your totally covered as they have already approved this format, this coupled with a risk assesment and parental permissions should be fine

[sarah707]

I think I will continue filling out a variation form or my own version of it so it can be clearly seen which child is increasing hours or which child is sibling and why they need additional hours that overlap. Can also include the risk assessment too then.

I agree, if you use their old variation form, your totally covered as they have already approved this format, this coupled with a risk assesment and parental permissions should be fine

Wait just a little while before worrying about how to write it up... Ofsted are producing guidance and I imagine there will be further advice about the risk assessments as this is not included in the EYFS.

it's something that is currently being addressed but we have plenty of time before Sept 1st

[miffy]

But surely this is what happens now?! - the child starts and then after a couple of weeks a variation is applied for - the minder knows they will not have the space but knows they can apply for a variation!! Ofsted grant these variations - I asked how long it was that a child came to you before it could be considered continuity of care and one of the minders said a week!! and that is how long she waits and she always gets her continuity of care. I was a bit shocked but then childcare is so limited around here and the childminders are so good at what they do then they are able to get the variation granted. A bit different for me as up until last week I hadn't had my 1st inspection and not as experienced but still - a week!

Maybe it is what happens now, I don't know. I would have thought Ofsted policed it a bit better than allowing "continuity of care" variations after just one weeks care - I assumed the reason they asked how long you'd been caring for the child on the variation form was to guard against that but from what you say that has no bearing. In the end it comes down to people's honesty and that won't alter.

Miffy xx