VARIATIONS UNDER REVISED EYFS - REPLY FROM DfE

**loocyloo** · 21-05-2012, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by fi fi

my reply from dfe:

hank you for your email dated 27 April 2012, in which you ask for clarification of paragraph 3.40 of the revised Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS).
The safeguarding and welfare requirements in the revised EYFS are designed to help providers create high quality settings which are welcoming, safe and stimulating, and where children are able to enjoy learning and grow in confidence. Within that context the revised EYFS has been designed to provide a greater degree of flexibility for providers than the current EYFS where practicable, so as to ensure that the needs of both parents and children can be met. Provided that children are safe it is not intended to place unnecessary restrictions on who may be cared for.
The revised EYFS makes clear that childminders should not care for more than six children under the age of eight. Of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children (under five), and there should only be one child under the age of one. Although this is the usual requirement the EYFS recognises that there may be circumstances where the ratios can be altered so that the particular needs of children and their families may be met. Providing that there are no more than six children being cared for at any one time, paragraph 3.29 of the revised EYFS makes clear that ‘exceptionally, and where the quality of care and safety and security of children is maintained, exceptions to the ratios may be made'. When changing the ratio and/or the ages of the children being cared for in exceptional circumstances providers will not be required to notify Ofsted and seek a variation of their registration.
In particular, the revised EYFS says exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby. If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. However, these exceptions are not meant to be exhaustive and do not exclude other adjustments to ratios being made in exceptional circumstances, such as other cases where there are continuity of care concerns.

I hope this helps address your concerns.

is it me, or do they just keep saying the same thing and not in english?
i take it to mean, that should an existing child, or 2, or 3 need extra hours/days, then as long as we are within our 6 under 8, then we are able to care for them. the only time you can take on an extra child ( say 4 under 5 ) will be if it is the baby sibling of a minded child.

the 4 & 5 yr old bit is the rising 5 scenario and we've had that a while already.

**blue bear** · 21-05-2012, 04:56 PM

Well I read it , as we no longer need to apply for variations and can make the decision ourselves after risk assessing as long as we stick to the rules of variations in the existing eyfs.

So it's only for continuation of care, either for an existing child or baby of existing child that we can go over the 3 under 5 as long as we never exceed the 6 under 8. We can't apply a variation for new children same as we can't now.
Also the children in full time education can be counted as over 5 still stands.

**miffy** · 21-05-2012, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by fi fi

my reply from dfe:

hank you for your email dated 27 April 2012, in which you ask for clarification of paragraph 3.40 of the revised Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS).
The safeguarding and welfare requirements in the revised EYFS are designed to help providers create high quality settings which are welcoming, safe and stimulating, and where children are able to enjoy learning and grow in confidence. Within that context the revised EYFS has been designed to provide a greater degree of flexibility for providers than the current EYFS where practicable, so as to ensure that the needs of both parents and children can be met. Provided that children are safe it is not intended to place unnecessary restrictions on who may be cared for.
The revised EYFS makes clear that childminders should not care for more than six children under the age of eight. Of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children (under five), and there should only be one child under the age of one. Although this is the usual requirement the EYFS recognises that there may be circumstances where the ratios can be altered so that the particular needs of children and their families may be met. Providing that there are no more than six children being cared for at any one time, paragraph 3.29 of the revised EYFS makes clear that ‘exceptionally, and where the quality of care and safety and security of children is maintained, exceptions to the ratios may be made'. When changing the ratio and/or the ages of the children being cared for in exceptional circumstances providers will not be required to notify Ofsted and seek a variation of their registration.
In particular, the revised EYFS says exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby. If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. However, these exceptions are not meant to be exhaustive and do not exclude other adjustments to ratios being made in exceptional circumstances, such as other cases where there are continuity of care concerns.

I hope this helps address your concerns.

Seems to be the standard reply

Hope Penny's contact has more news for us soon

Miffy xx

**george** · 22-05-2012, 09:31 AM

With my husband who is also a regístered childminder we currently care for 5 under 5 does this mean if a parent has a baby in the future we can care for 6 under 5 as Long as we do not care for anymore children under the age of 8 at this time? I hope so as we have two parents pregnant who want to continue to use us?
Any help clarifying this is really appreciated x

**miffy** · 22-05-2012, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by george

With my husband who is also a regístered childminder we currently care for 5 under 5 does this mean if a parent has a baby in the future we can care for 6 under 5 as Long as we do not care for anymore children under the age of 8 at this time? I hope so as we have two parents pregnant who want to continue to use us?
Any help clarifying this is really appreciated x

No idea but didn't want to read and run.

I'm sure Ofsted will bring out some guidance before September.

Miffy xx

**Bluebell** · 22-05-2012, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Andrea08

may i ask then if one of my mindees goes to reception and for the first few weeks its only part time and i have his sibling or new mindee i could continue to care for both as long as i dont go over my 6 uner 8yr olds..

ive always said that once our mindees start reception in september they should move up to our over 5's as its unfair to have to turn down work because of the few wks they are only part time..

still i wouldnt want more than 6 under 8yr olds on my own ive got 5(5-9 yr olds) mindees ere atm and the screems and argueing is doing my head in lol

i can see ofsted getting lots of calls come sept making sure they understand this rule

I was speaking to a fellow childminder about this and she said that every year children go half days and every year she fills the space with a new child and the child that has the half day gets a varation. She phoned Ofsted to apply for a variation for this September and was told she could do it without applying for a variation. So in answer to your question I think it is yes!

**Bluebell** · 22-05-2012, 09:10 PM

If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. However, these exceptions are not meant to be exhaustive and do not exclude other adjustments to ratios being made in exceptional circumstances, such as other cases where there are continuity of care concerns.

I have a child hoping to start in September 3 days a week but mum will need care for sibling in holidays - HOWEVER he is not in school he is in pre-school and he is not 4 until January - I am reading this that this is no for him if I don't have an actual space! This means I will have 4 under 5's but with my own 2 being over 5's I won't take on anyone older so it will be 6 under 8 altogether. But he is a sibling so maybe this would be the reason for the variation!

**miffy** · 22-05-2012, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Bluelion

I was speaking to a fellow childminder about this and she said that every year children go half days and every year she fills the space with a new child and the child that has the half day gets a varation. She phoned Ofsted to apply for a variation for this September and was told she could do it without applying for a variation. So in answer to your question I think it is yes!

That's very interesting, hope,she took the name of the person she spoke to.

Miffy xx

**Bluebell** · 22-05-2012, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by miffy

That's very interesting, hope,she took the name of the person she spoke to.

Miffy xx

I don't know if she did - she is very organised so probably! But she will have evidence that she has been granted variations by Ofsted in previous years from her registration certificates. It will be the exact same circumstances so she can grant herself the variation and justifiy it - iyswim?

**jackie 7** · 24-05-2012, 05:14 PM

thanks for that, a friend said she was told she could decide herself how many children she could have.

**jackie 7** · 30-05-2012, 08:49 PM

now i am really confused. ofsted told a friend of a friend that in september all will change, our new certificates will not say how many children we can have and we can risk assess ourselves then decide how many children we can care for. has anyone else heard this?

**AMcCoy** · 31-05-2012, 01:01 PM

The key words here are 'exceptional' circumstances. Exceptional meaning not ordinary / normal situations.

So in my mind the altering of ratios will be for a specific child, for a specific reason for a determined period of time.

When considering whether to alter the ratios the normal considerations apply: can I accommodate the request, will it alter my normal practice and impact on the other children present. How safe will my setting remain can I do my usual activities travel safely etc be it in the car or walking. This type of thinking is the start of a risk assessment.

My concerns are that it might become a bit like the speed limit, we know it is 70 on the motorway but not many keep to the speed. The maximum numbers/ratio's exist but how many will stick to three under five in the future?

**Linda Mc** · 31-05-2012, 05:47 PM

I had to ring OFSTED today about an enquiry for twins, who are 1 years old, starting in October.

I already look after two children under 3 & that would take me over my numbers by one & it would be 'new business' so I didn't think I could do it.

The guy put me on hold & went to check. He came back & said after September as long as we were within our numbers overall we wouldn't need to apply for a variation.

He said as long as we used our common sense & could show that we'd be able to look after the children safely all we'd have to do is follow the EYFS!

I did make a note of his name & will check again in September just in case

**twiggy** · 14-07-2012, 05:56 PM

I have just been on a meeting arranged by our local authority to tell all the childminders about the new EYFS and there has been total confusion over the number of children allowed. I have a variation in place to have 4 named children on my own for 3 days a week. I have another variation allowing me to have 7 named children one day a week whilst working with an assistant. I am totally confused as to whether I will keep these variations. Lots of childminders at the meeting were thinking they would have to give notice to children. HELP!!!!!

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 14-07-2012, 06:33 PM

I am waiting for the guidance to come from Ofsted

**sarah707** · 14-07-2012, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by twiggy

I have just been on a meeting arranged by our local authority to tell all the childminders about the new EYFS and there has been total confusion over the number of children allowed. I have a variation in place to have 4 named children on my own for 3 days a week. I have another variation allowing me to have 7 named children one day a week whilst working with an assistant. I am totally confused as to whether I will keep these variations. Lots of childminders at the meeting were thinking they would have to give notice to children. HELP!!!!!

Have a look through my variations document in free downloads at the top of the forum.

It is the most comprehensive info to date from ofsted about variations from Sept 2012.

Hth

**twiggy** · 16-07-2012, 11:42 AM

Thank you Sarah I will have a look x

**Mrs Dolphin** · 17-07-2012, 07:20 PM

I currently have 2 children on a Thursday (one under one, and one 2 yr old) (I also have my own 2 year old). Mum of a one year old I have on a Tuesday wants to add on a Thursday as well. Will I be able to do this as in theory it's continuation of care?

**sarah707** · 17-07-2012, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mrs Dolphin

I currently have 2 children on a Thursday (one under one, and one 2 yr old) (I also have my own 2 year old). Mum of a one year old I have on a Tuesday wants to add on a Thursday as well. Will I be able to do this as in theory it's continuation of care?

There is a document about variations in free downloads at the top of the forum.

You need to read through it and check out whether your situation meets the requirements.

Hth

**catlyn** · 18-07-2012, 08:40 PM

Just back from my revised EYFS training and the trainer told us all about variations...or rather the lack of them in september

she told us almost word for word what sarah has been saying about continuity of care...own child....etc...EXCEPT....she said it only applies to under one year olds????? So we can have 2 under ones and 2 under fives making a total of 4 under 5's .....but not 4 under 5's if they are all over one??? I did challenge her on this but all she said was....."we are working off a prepared script given to us by the people who wrote the guidance and we are awaiting further innformation which will clarify it"