VARIATIONS UNDER REVISED EYFS - REPLY FROM DfE

[rickysmiths]

I would agree as well Penny as long as you have the RA to back it up should anyone Complain.

[BucksCM]

I had a reply from my DO as I've had an enquirey for Jan 2013 and it would mean that I'm within my 6 under 8 but would have 4 under 5. Iasked her if she could clarify as I'd heard that come sept 2012 we wouldn't need to apply for variations. She was at a meeting yesturday and said she'd ask. She did.

"childminder ratios - this is within the revision to the Inspection & Regulation guidance which isn't yet out, so I don't want to give a firm answer until I've read the final document.
I'm sure this is why there is some confusion over it. Ratios have not changed according to EYFS, however my understanding (no more than that..) is that childminders will be able to count children in full-time education (4 & 5 year olds) as over 5s without having to request a variation providing they can look after all adequately and is risk-assessed. I don't think it has changed as far as younger children are concerned, but we must wait and see?"

Again...clear as mud?
Doesn't look like it's changed to me

[chez]

I am a childminder working with an assistant childminder (soon to be childminder) would we get 6 under 8 or 12 under 8??

[Bridey]

I had a reply from my DO as I've had an enquirey for Jan 2013 and it would mean that I'm within my 6 under 8 but would have 4 under 5.

See that to me is what the D of E is saying we can't do without a variation ... take on a new enquiry that doesn't involve a sibling or continuity of care issue ... unless one of the 4 is attending school full time.

Which is how things are now anyway.

[Penny1959]

From everything I have read and everyone I have spoken to - it seems clear that we can not take on NEW buisness and extend the ratio's - the ratio's stay at 3 under 5 - as they are now.

It also seems very clear that if we are asked to have a sibling of a child currently in our care we can have 4 under 5's - and that can include 2 babies

It is also clear that if a child goes to full time school we can exceed 3 under 5 but still must stay within the 6 under 8

What is not clear is if two or thre of our current children have siblings at the same time - if we can have them - as it reads we can if we keep within the 6 under 8 ratio.

And in my case described earlier it does read that I can continue with 4 under 5 as now via my variation and I can have 5 under 5 on the two days to meet one mums request for extra days - because it is continuity of care and I will be within 6 under 8.

I am actually going to ask the direct question to the Ofsted person who ran the feedback sesion on the pilot inspections - as she gave her email address and said those attending the feedback meeting could do so - and will ask Miffy if I can copy and paste the reply from DfE.

I will let you all know if I get an answer.

Penny

[mama2three]

Thanks Miffy and Penny. Certainly looking more positive now.

[angeldelight]

Thanks for the information Miffy and for your input Penny

I have stuck this Miffy so it does not get lost

Angel xx

[flowerpots]

Thanks miffy, im still a little bit confused

2 of my mums are pregnant, due in sept and jan, both are only taking 12-16 weeks off and both want to send new babies to me, older siblings are still going to be attending, i currently have no idea what to say to them.

[miffy]

I am actually going to ask the direct question to the Ofsted person who ran the feedback sesion on the pilot inspections - as she gave her email address and said those attending the feedback meeting could do so - and will ask Miffy if I can copy and paste the reply from DfE.

I will let you all know if I get an answer.

Penny

I've replied to your pm Penny. It would be good if we could also get Ofsted's take on this. Thank you

Miffy xx

[miffy]

Thanks for the information Miffy and for your input Penny

I have stuck this Miffy so it does not get lost

Angel xx

Thank you Angel.

Hopefully Penny will be able to add to it when she's spoken to Ofsted.

Miffy xx

[loocyloo]

thanks miffy & penny

i've just had another enqiry for a mum who wants one day a week to start with ( which i will have the vacancy for ) but to build up to other days as & when her business increases ... so can i take it? and apply variations as it will be continuity of care? as long as i am under 6 under 8 at all times?

[mama2three]

thanks miffy & penny

i've just had another enqiry for a mum who wants one day a week to start with ( which i will have the vacancy for ) but to build up to other days as & when her business increases ... so can i take it? and apply variations as it will be continuity of care? as long as i am under 6 under 8 at all times?

Thats how i understand it just now , but looking forward to a response from Ofsted too via Penny.

[jane5]

This is very interesting and I can think of a couple of minders that I know who will exploit this to make more money, not to help out current families

Is it only me that is a bit wary of this

I often say I can not change days or do extra days because I will be over my numbers but now I will have to grow a back bone and say NO I cant do it because I dont WANT to do it because I wont be able to blame Ofsted

[rickysmiths]

thanks miffy & penny

i've just had another enqiry for a mum who wants one day a week to start with ( which i will have the vacancy for ) but to build up to other days as & when her business increases ... so can i take it? and apply variations as it will be continuity of care? as long as i am under 6 under 8 at all times?

But the whole thing is that we won't be applying for variations it will as it stands at present, be our choice if we feel we can do it or not.

[loocyloo]

But the whole thing is that we won't be applying for variations it will as it stands at present, be our choice if we feel we can do it or not.

i was meaning 'apply variations' in that i would have to grant myself the variation having RA etc to make sure i could do it.

[catlyn]

my friend who is also a CM cares for 3 under 5's already one of which is her grandson ..she rang ofsted today to ask for a variation to care for her grandsons new baby brother (who is 8 months) she was told by ofsted a variation wouldnt be granted as ...."they (grandchildren) dont count in your numbers" so she asked if it was Ok to care for the baby then?? and was told..."I cant tell you how to run your busisness and i wont make any judgement on that!!"...she was gobsmacked to say the least.....when she asked him to clarify what he was saying he repeated what he had said and hung up on her!!!!!!!!! So under the new EYFS....are grandchildren classed in the same bracket as your own children???

[Penny1959]

Many thanks to Miffy for sharing details of her response from DfE. Email now sent to my contact at Ofsted - I know this person was not in the office today as was at a conference - so do not expect a reply straight away.

I asked about my personal situation and put a couple of scenarios for her to consider and respond to.

Penny

[miffy]

Many thanks to Miffy for sharing details of her response from DfE. Email now sent to my contact at Ofsted - I know this person was not in the office today as was at a conference - so do not expect a reply straight away.

I asked about my personal situation and put a couple of scenarios for her to consider and respond to.

Penny

Well done Penny. I'll be very interested in the reply.

Miffy xx

[BucksCM]

my friend who is also a CM cares for 3 under 5's already one of which is her grandson ..she rang ofsted today to ask for a variation to care for her grandsons new baby brother (who is 8 months) she was told by ofsted a variation wouldnt be granted as ...."they (grandchildren) dont count in your numbers" so she asked if it was Ok to care for the baby then?? and was told..."I cant tell you how to run your busisness and i wont make any judgement on that!!"...she was gobsmacked to say the least.....when she asked him to clarify what he was saying he repeated what he had said and hung up on her!!!!!!!!! So under the new EYFS....are grandchildren classed in the same bracket as your own children???

Honestly, they need to just sit down and sort it out!! Our own children do count in our numbers! So therefore so would grandchildren....surely?! I would rind back and complain about how this person spoke to you and the "advice " they gave...because I'm pretty sure that if you went ahead and cared for the baby and were reported they'd be out to you like a shot!! Stupid ofsted!!

[blue bear]

my reply from dfe:

hank you for your email dated 27 April 2012, in which you ask for clarification of paragraph 3.40 of the revised Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS).
The safeguarding and welfare requirements in the revised EYFS are designed to help providers create high quality settings which are welcoming, safe and stimulating, and where children are able to enjoy learning and grow in confidence. Within that context the revised EYFS has been designed to provide a greater degree of flexibility for providers than the current EYFS where practicable, so as to ensure that the needs of both parents and children can be met. Provided that children are safe it is not intended to place unnecessary restrictions on who may be cared for.
The revised EYFS makes clear that childminders should not care for more than six children under the age of eight. Of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children (under five), and there should only be one child under the age of one. Although this is the usual requirement the EYFS recognises that there may be circumstances where the ratios can be altered so that the particular needs of children and their families may be met. Providing that there are no more than six children being cared for at any one time, paragraph 3.29 of the revised EYFS makes clear that ‘exceptionally, and where the quality of care and safety and security of children is maintained, exceptions to the ratios may be made'. When changing the ratio and/or the ages of the children being cared for in exceptional circumstances providers will not be required to notify Ofsted and seek a variation of their registration.
In particular, the revised EYFS says exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby. If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. However, these exceptions are not meant to be exhaustive and do not exclude other adjustments to ratios being made in exceptional circumstances, such as other cases where there are continuity of care concerns.

I hope this helps address your concerns.