Confused re my numbers :(

**Shamai** · 27-04-2012, 09:44 AM

I've just spoken to Ofsted and they have emailed a variation form but am still confused as to what I'm allowed.

I currently look after a 4yo girl and 1yo boy on Tuesday and Wednesdays. The 4yo attends pre-school in the afternoons with my daughter who is also 4yo.

I have been asked by a mum at the same pre-school if I can mind her 4yo son on a Monday, Tuesday and Thursday. Obviously the Monday and Thursday are fine but on the Tuesday I would have a 1yo and three 4yo.

My registration states no more than 3 children in EY group. Does that number include my daughter??

In September all the 4yo will be going to full time school but at the mo they only attend daily afternoon sessions.

If you've made it this far, your advice would be appreciated!! Thank you x

**sarahjane** · 27-04-2012, 09:52 AM

All the 4 yo's count in your Early years numbers at present but not when they start full time school in September. So you will need to apply for a variation for the Tuesday which may or may not be given as it is for new business and not continuity of care. HTH's

**Rubybubbles** · 27-04-2012, 10:02 AM

Right so currently you mind
1 x 1
1 x 4

you have asked for looking after 1x4

therefore allowing you 3 in EYFS age group

Your own dd is NOT included on your reg number so I would say you can have this.

Please someone correct me if wrong!

Come sept you would then have 2 spaces again in EYFS age group (once they all start school full time)

**Mouse** · 27-04-2012, 10:09 AM

If you have a 4yr old daughter of your own, your certificate should really say you can care for 2 in the EY age range. The numbers on the certificate relate to MINDED children only. If your certificate does say you can mind 3 EYFS children I would guess they have made a mistake somewhere - not got your daughter on their records, age entered wrong etc.

How many children does it say you can have over all and what does the actual breakdown say?

I would check it out because there have been case where the certificate has been wrong and the childminder has gone over their numbers (although within the numbers on the certificate) and been in trouble for it.

Ofsted are unlikely to give you a variation for new business as it only cover continuity of care, or sibling care.

**Shamai** · 27-04-2012, 10:19 AM

Thank you for your replies!

My certificate states:

no more than 3 children under 8 years, of these not more than 2 may be in early years and of these not more than 1 under 1 year.

when caring for 4 or 5 yo before and after school may increase the number in the EY group by the number of children who are present

Think maybe I need to speak to Ofsted again and get them to clarify slowly and clearly instead of rushing me

**mama2three** · 27-04-2012, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Shamai

Thank you for your replies!

My certificate states:

no more than 3 children under 8 years, of these not more than 2 may be in early years and of these not more than 1 under 1 year.

when caring for 4 or 5 yo before and after school may increase the number in the EY group by the number of children who are present

Think maybe I need to speak to Ofsted again and get them to clarify slowly and clearly instead of rushing me

so you are only registered for 2 'preschool' , If Im right at the moment you have 2 - a 4 yr old and a 1 yr old - so your places are taken. You would need a variation for the new child - worth asking but Ofsted dont usually grant for new business unless you can show extenuating circumstances - such as no other local provision and the fact that it is for 1 term only. Worth asking anyway.

**Mouse** · 27-04-2012, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Shamai

Thank you for your replies!

My certificate states:

no more than 3 children under 8 years, of these not more than 2 may be in early years and of these not more than 1 under 1 year.

when caring for 4 or 5 yo before and after school may increase the number in the EY group by the number of children who are present

Think maybe I need to speak to Ofsted again and get them to clarify slowly and clearly instead of rushing me

So your certificate and says you can care for 2 EY children, not 3. You are registered for a maximum of 3 minded children under 8 at any one time. Of those 3 children, 2 can be in the early years age group. Think of it as being you can have 3 minded children, a maximum of 2 which are pre school children.

Ofsted are unlikely to grant you a variation for this 3rd child as it is new business not continuity of care.

**Shamai** · 27-04-2012, 12:16 PM

Thank you for the advice - much appreciated. Just spoken to the Mum and warned her it may not be granted so she said she will take what days she can from me and if Ofsted approve the Tuesday it will be a bonus

**mama2three** · 27-04-2012, 12:23 PM

Take him on the monday and thursday for now. After a while ask for the variation for the tuesday as it will then come under 'continuity of care'.

**Goatgirl** · 27-04-2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by mama2three

Take him on the monday and thursday for now. After a while ask for the variation for the tuesday as it will then come under 'continuity of care'.

Exactly what I would do

Good luck

**SandCastles** · 30-04-2012, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by mama2three

Take him on the monday and thursday for now. After a while ask for the variation for the tuesday as it will then come under 'continuity of care'.

Exactly what I would do too.

**JoannaKButler** · 14-05-2012, 11:57 AM

It appears that this will all be changing in September and Ofsted will be issuing new certificates to all childminders in Autumn with no numbers on: each of us is held to the Statutory Guidance on ratios as set out in the new EYFS. Once my eldest is in school full time education (27 Sept) this is fine, but meanwhile the school only takes him part time and it would appear that I am not therefore able to take on another child between 1-27th as they will no longer issue any variations, even though I'd only have my son for a few hours every day. Plus the parents of the 'after school pick up children' I've agreed to take on will have to take time off work or find alternative childcare until 27th Sept as again no variations will be allowed. Are other childminders finding problems with this and are other parents going to struggle, or am I misunderstanding what the man at Ofsted said to me on the phone today?

**Wendybird** · 15-05-2012, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by JoannaKButler

It appears that this will all be changing in September and Ofsted will be issuing new certificates to all childminders in Autumn with no numbers on: each of us is held to the Statutory Guidance on ratios as set out in the new EYFS. Once my eldest is in school full time education (27 Sept) this is fine, but meanwhile the school only takes him part time and it would appear that I am not therefore able to take on another child between 1-27th as they will no longer issue any variations, even though I'd only have my son for a few hours every day. Plus the parents of the 'after school pick up children' I've agreed to take on will have to take time off work or find alternative childcare until 27th Sept as again no variations will be allowed. Are other childminders finding problems with this and are other parents going to struggle, or am I misunderstanding what the man at Ofsted said to me on the phone today?

This seems to be such a mess! I think from what I've read on here people are getting different answers to all this. I asked my DO in an e-mail about 'continuity of care' variations in September as I've currently got one to mind 4 under-fives. She phoned me yesterday to tell me not to worry, that Ofsted won't be granting variations come September, that you are not allowed to have more than 6 under-eights but it was up to you as a professional to decide how many under-fives to take. Somehow I just don't think it is going to be that easy though! I'm just going to carry on and wait until something is in writing! Makes it very difficult to plan for September though.