which nms is the rising 5's?

[aly]

im trying and trying to find it {probably staring at it lol} but can't find the nms it us referring to.

thanks

[sarah707]

Do you mean cos it's not there any more? It used to be in standard 13.4

[aly]

well a few weeks ago i mentioned about the rising 5's to my inspector, and she said that it no longer exists as they are not classing 4 yo as rising 5's {and in her words} it says it in the nms......I've had a look through i dotn know how many times and i cant find it....if its not in the NEW nms then she is obviously stating something to me thats not there,.....and I know manjay said that NCMA are trying to get them to stick to rising 5's.....dont know what to say/do with regards to that really as my daughter is 4 in aug and full time in sept, and 1 mindee is 4 {5 in oct} and also full time in sept but she said no they will not be classed as risers.....this messes with my numbers a little of thats not the case but i got nothing to refer to for when she comes {for inspection} sooon.

[aly]

dont I talk a load of rubbish

[sarah707]

It was in the old standards - 13.4

They re-wrote the standards and missed it out - possibly by accident who knows?

There is no mention of a 'rising 5' clause in the new standards.

Until it's been resolved between NCMA and Welsh Assembly it will be illegal to class children aged 4 in school as rising 5.

So yes it totally messes with your ratios and you cannot take on another child to fill the ££ gap.

is that what you mean cos I'm confused now too

ANYONE WORRYING ... THIS IS WALES!!

[Polly2]

well a few weeks ago i mentioned about the rising 5's to my inspector, and she said that it no longer exists as they are not classing 4 yo as rising 5's {and in her words} it says it in the nms......I've had a look through i dotn know how many times and i cant find it....if its not in the NEW nms then she is obviously stating something to me thats not there,.....and I know manjay said that NCMA are trying to get them to stick to rising 5's.....dont know what to say/do with regards to that really as my daughter is 4 in aug and full time in sept, and 1 mindee is 4 {5 in oct} and also full time in sept but she said no they will not be classed as risers.....this messes with my numbers a little of thats not the case but i got nothing to refer to for when she comes {for inspection} sooon.

When I spoke to my inspector about this she said that if you are already caring for rising 5's to carry on and that she would give permission to do this but if not don't take on any more children as they are in the process of clarifying. They are as much in the dark as we are LOL I think Manjay is looking into it further. I would speak to your inspector when she comes.

Trouble is like we always say each inspector is different!

[catlyn]

Phew!! was starting to worry there till Sarah mmentioned Wales I have a rising 5 starting in September but I live in England

[tulip0803]

The standard about ratios for childminding in Wales is in Standard 15 - Staffing (15.7) children are now either under 5 or over 5 no moving for full time school. Luckily I have no-one coming up to it but they start school round here before their 4th birthday!

Hope they sort it soon

[tulip0803]

Oh I lied - I have one that Mum wants me to have after school next term - I have had her siblings after school this year - if it is the 2 same days it will be fine if it changes I may not be able to do it

[manjay]

I am meeting with CSSIW this week. I will try to get a definitive answer about when this will be sorted.

There would be a massive negative impact on childminders in Wales if this were the case. For many it would mean excluding this age group or loosing money neither of which fit into the strategic plan for child care in Wales

[jelly15]

I am meeting with CSSIW this week. I will try to get a definitive answer about when this will be sorted.

There would be a massive negative impact on childminders in Wales if this were the case. For many it would mean excluding this age group or loosing money neither of which fit into the strategic plan for child care in Wales

You are absolutly right, I would have to give notice on a four year old next year, who has been with me since she was 14 months, because I can afford to keep her place for just before and after school and holidays, if a younger child came along for the same days.

It is also going to be difficult for her mum to find someone else for her daughter out of school hours.

[manjay]

I attended a meeting with the North Wales CSSIW Area Team manager last week.

As I mentioned before there a few little niggles that need to be sorted with the NMS and the 4 year olds in full time school is one of them. She assures me that all CSSIW offices have been advised about this missing clause from the NMS.

The NMS are written by the Department for Children, Education and Lifelong Learning and are based on the Childminding and Daycare Regulations 2010 (which is the legislation). The amendments are currently with DCELLS to get their authorisation for the changes. As the NMS document is not legislation the team manager has been in discussion with legal representatives and has advised me that it would be impossible to prosecute anyone for continuing to class 4 year olds in school as 5 year olds. Anyway I shall continue to do so in September

I was quite surprised to find at the meeting that the majority of the childminders there hadn't even been bothered to have a look at the new NMS yet

[aly]

I attended a meeting with the North Wales CSSIW Area Team manager last week.

As I mentioned before there a few little niggles that need to be sorted with the NMS and the 4 year olds in full time school is one of them. She assures me that all CSSIW offices have been advised about this missing clause from the NMS.

The NMS are written by the Department for Children, Education and Lifelong Learning and are based on the Childminding and Daycare Regulations 2010 (which is the legislation). The amendments are currently with DCELLS to get their authorisation for the changes. As the NMS document is not legislation the team manager has been in discussion with legal representatives and has advised me that it would be impossible to prosecute anyone for continuing to class 4 year olds in school as 5 year olds. Anyway I shall continue to do so in September

I was quite surprised to find at the meeting that the majority of the childminders there hadn't even been bothered to have a look at the new NMS yet

Thank you manjay, my inspector still hasnt turned up but im hoping that something will be said/done by the time she comes, even if it's an acknowledgement and not completely ignore etc.

I know what you mean about the NMS and other cms though, i even copied it on to a cd for 1 cm at the school as she didnt know anything/looked

I find it would be people like her that wouldnt be pulled up about it, but for me and a friend {who sat up for a few hours going through the nms together} 1 little thing wrong and we would get told off etc.

Anyway, When/if she comes soon I will let you know what she says.

xxx

[RachelM]

Hello - I am still waiting for clarification on this from my Inspector too!

I have one child already on my books, starting school full time in September and will be 5 within three weeks of the new school term and another who is new to my books starting September who will be 5 in October.

This means, they will both be school run only and apart from my three year old daughter, I will have no one booked in during the day. Because we can only have 3 under fives, I cannot take on anyone new for full days, as I will be up to my max at 15:10 with the school run!!

I have had to turn down two families already that needed me all day until 17:00 and it's frustrating and upsetting for all concerned when I am easily available during the day!