Truss confirms she wants schools open all day

[Simona]

So she is serious about decimating cms...
Look at what the article says: childcarers will be called to help schools run the after school clubs...this is a threat to us

My school runs such a club at a huge cost for 2 hours and no dinner...so it is happening

Schools should be open to 6pm to reduce the burden of childcare on working parents | Mail Online

[Simona]

and more on another set of proposals for mothers to run after school clubs...how many more is she going to unveil?

Liz Truss: Parents 'to run after-school clubs' under government proposals to lengthen school day - Telegraph

[Mouse]

This isn't a new idea, but she seems to be taking credit for it!

One of our local schools set up a breakfast and after school club run by a local playgroup. The playgroup staff run the breakfast club at the infant school, deliver any children to the junior school and take the pre-schoolers to playgroup with them. At the end of the day they go back to school to run the after school club until 5.30pm. It's run successfully for a while now, but hasn't really taken any work from childminders. Parents tend to look for a childminder first, then go to the school clubs if they can't get in with a cm. Those who do go to the school clubs often end up taking their children out after a while as it's just too long a day for them. The breakfast club is more popular, but I've found most parents don't want to leave their children at school later in the afternoon. The ones who use the afterschool club most are those who need it on an ad hoc basis. It's more difficult for them to sign up with a childminder when they only need care now and again, so for them it's ideal.

Truss may come up with all these proposals, but I think we have to consider the fact that it's not actually something many parents will want or use.

[CLL]

People and schools who want to do this have already done so. The others realise it is not what they want or is not viable. I bet she makes schools do this and it will be compulsory. She will now alienate more people. And to think she is now going to draft in mums to run it? I thought the purpose of it was for mums who work? So is she just going to target out of work mums to run it? Now they can be employed and she will have even better in work statistics. Silly woman!! I hope Ofsted treat them the same as they do cm!

[Chimps Childminding]

Our primary tried an after school club, but there weren't enough parents interested to make it viable for very long!!! Shame really because I would love not to have to have schoolies

[AgentTink]

I agree with mouse. We have quite a few of local schools doing this already. There is always spaces available though, as lots of parents find it is too many chilldren together and too loud for their children.

What Truss once again fails to mention in these chats is that there will always be a cost to parents. At a minimum the cheapest afterschool group by me is £5 with no food, and that shuts at 5. Recently 2 of them have stopped doing afterschool as they were not financially viable as they didnt have any full time kids and they were all little bits here and there.

What Truss really wants to happen but isnt saying is most probably one of the following:
1) Teachers/Teaching Assistants will be expected to do it as part of their normal role
2) Parents will gladly volunteer to look after other children for free in the school
3) Agency Childminders will create HUBS in schools, and be paid minimum wage

[It's a small world]

I have a mindee who used to attend after school clubs. Then their parents got stuck at the last minute and asked if i could help. ( one off favour as friend of ds) week later parent asked if i could have on occassions - as and when- i agreed providing i had a space. Contract signed. Parent now checks if i have a space and then if i cant help goes to after school club. So no they do not effect me xx

[SammySplodger]

I have before & after school clubs locally as well. Some schools just can't make them pay and have closed them down. The one I know of that's still going is shared by two schools and very much seen as a 'last resort' - kids look really bored / unhappy. My kids went once and said they hated it.

It may sound like a threat... but parents aren't daft.

[wendywu]

I have schools near me that do before and after school clubs and the YMCA also does after school and holiday clubs. This has been going on for ages. Nothing new in ETs thinking on this one.

Perhaps i should invent the wheel, what do you mean its already been done

[marie55]

We also have many schools providing a breakfast club and 3'oclock club. One school has been running this for 19 years for children aged 3 to 11. What I have found is the children are very excited when they first attend then become bored and switch back to or seek out childminders as they miss their friends/childminder and home from home environment AND A HOME COOKED MEAL!. Also there are always older junior school children at clubs which some younger children feel daunted by.

Truss really doesn't think about recent proposals that have been put forward e.g. 2/6/13 The country's 232,000 teaching assistants face the axe after ministers started talks to phase out the so-called 'mums army'.
The Treasury and Department for Education are considering getting rid of the classroom assistants in attempt to save some of the £4billion a year spent on them.

14/6/13 "There are some very good examples of schools that already offer 8-6 provision, either using teaching staff, teaching assistants, local nursery staff; there are many flexible ways it can be done.”

[loocyloo]

after school club for our school doesn't start early enough to help my parents, and is too big/noisy/like school after school and they don't want that.

my parents also like the fact they get a 'proper' meal, that sometimes we go to the library on the way home, or the shops and that it is, to quote one mum, '' the next best thing to being home with mum ''.

[JCrakers]

My school has an afterschool club that is run in the dinner hall/assembly hall. It's open till 6pm, the school promotes it. It's a local nursery.


To tell you the truth, its not affected my business. I've actually taken on 4 children who hated it. They really want to get away from school and a change of scenery.

[Simona]

I have just picked up this tweet from Sharon Hodgson:
Sharon Hodgson MP ‏@SharonHodgsonMP
'Extended schools a good idea - that's why we put the funding in place in 2005, so by 2010 99% did it. What did Gove do? Scrapped the funding'

So if they are already up and running why have we reacted so negatively? because Truss wants parents running more of them? and flagging it up as a money saver rather than MGC?

I too have heard of bored children, the money saved in fees also means parents have to feed their kids after picking them up...so can't see how that helps
Most clubs do not offer any food but children have to have packed lunches

it is the whole idea of having 2 year olds in schools and our older ones in clubs that worries me...some cms may also lose income from holiday care as I am sure the schools will eventually do that too.
what will cms be left with? babies until 2?

That will be a real worry and our experience of looking after all ages diluted... cminding will never be the same

[The Juggler]

I have just picked up this tweet from Sharon Hodgson:
Sharon Hodgson MP ‏@SharonHodgsonMP
'Extended schools a good idea - that's why we put the funding in place in 2005, so by 2010 99% did it. What did Gove do? Scrapped the funding'

So if they are already up and running why have we reacted so negatively? because Truss wants parents running more of them? and flagging it up as a money saver rather than MGC?

I too have heard of bored children, the money saved in fees also means parents have to feed their kids after picking them up...so can't see how that helps
Most clubs do not offer any food but children have to have packed lunches

it is the whole idea of having 2 year olds in schools and our older ones in clubs that worries me...some cms may also lose income from holiday care as I am sure the schools will eventually do that too.
what will cms be left with? babies until 2?

That will be a real worry and our experience of looking after all ages diluted... cminding will never be the same

why does she says parents should help run them? they need qualified playworkers in there. what happened to having better qualified staff? And if the 2 year olds in school are going to be using these facilities then she'll need her highly qualified early years staff in there won't she

Sarcasm aside, She has no clue what is on offer already, no research done, ignores all reserach about what is best for kids and has no idea of how you would manage a class full of 2 year olds. She needs to be sacked - immediately.

[Mouse]

I have just picked up this tweet from Sharon Hodgson:
Sharon Hodgson MP ‏@SharonHodgsonMP
'Extended schools a good idea - that's why we put the funding in place in 2005, so by 2010 99% did it. What did Gove do? Scrapped the funding'

So if they are already up and running why have we reacted so negatively? because Truss wants parents running more of them? and flagging it up as a money saver rather than MGC?

I too have heard of bored children, the money saved in fees also means parents have to feed their kids after picking them up...so can't see how that helps
Most clubs do not offer any food but children have to have packed lunches

it is the whole idea of having 2 year olds in schools and our older ones in clubs that worries me...some cms may also lose income from holiday care as I am sure the schools will eventually do that too.
what will cms be left with? babies until 2?

That will be a real worry and our experience of looking after all ages diluted... cminding will never be the same

But Simona, you're again assuming parents will want to send children to school at 2. How many of us, as parents, would have chosen to send out children to school at that age?
Just because it's proposed & encouraged, doesn't mean it will work.

Sometimes I think it's a case of letting these things go ahead. Like with the school wrap around care that was introduced in 2005 - let them get on with it, then sit back & watch it fail.

I'm guessing the same will happen with agencies. I don't know that we've got much chance of blocking them now, so I think our best hope is to follow the trials, boycott them & let them fail all by themselves

[Simona]

Mouse...I promise you I am not assuming anything
Just listening to the various debates here and elsewhere and reflecting on what may be or could be and how it will affect cms as a whole and my practice in particular

Truss is proposing agencies even though we cannot find anyone who agrees with them...
Truss was proposing higher ratios and, had Clegg, not blocked her she would have gone ahead with them
No one wants the LAs to be reformed but she will go ahead anyway
Truss wants cms in the 2 yo scheme and LAs are not budging...it is by speaking up that we can make a difference and be heard

If we are not heard on 2 year olds in schools and after school care she will go ahead with those too
Yes of course parents have a choice...they also have the choice of not sending children to school until 5...how many resist that pressure??

Too many reforms affect cms in comparison to the rest of the workforce...I can't hear any of the cms associations picking up on our worries and speaking up...ratios and agencies are not the only issues in her senseless reforms...she wants a childcare market and that is exactly what she will pursue: competition at the expense of quality

As Neil Leitch said...children are not a number of the govt spreadsheet!

[bindy]

Mouse is right. I have a 2 year old, no way would I ever send her to school, I don't really like the idea of her going at 4/5. No of my parents would send their little ones either.

[bindy]

Mouse...I promise you I am not assuming anything
Just listening to the various debates here and elsewhere and reflecting on what may be or could be and how it will affect cms as a whole and my practice in particular

Truss is proposing agencies even though we cannot find anyone who agrees with them...
Truss was proposing higher ratios and, had Clegg, not blocked her she would have gone ahead with them
No one wants the LAs to be reformed but she will go ahead anyway
Truss wants cms in the 2 yo scheme and LAs are not budging...it is by speaking up that we can make a difference and be heard

If we are not heard on 2 year olds in schools and after school care she will go ahead with those too
Yes of course parents have a choice...they also have the choice of not sending children to school until 5...how many resist that pressure??

Too many reforms affect cms in comparison to the rest of the workforce...I can't hear any of the cms associations picking up on our worries and speaking up...ratios and agencies are not the only issues in her senseless reforms...she wants a childcare market and that is exactly what she will pursue: competition at the expense of quality

As Neil Leitch said...children are not a number of the govt spreadsheet!

Children go to school the term normally before their 5th birthday. They have to by law be in school at 5. If a child turns 4 in August, yes they can wait until the year later but the problem being they then miss reception and go straight into year 1, which I guess puts a lot of mothers off waiting. I personally think, now kids have to be in some sort of education until 18, we should be like the Americans and Europeans and start children age 6/7. They do so much better than us at 18 which matters so much more, than if they know their letters at age 5!

[Emra81]

I wouldn't dare to suggest she's lost her marbles, but some have most definitely rolled out of reach!

The complete lack of joined up thinking in her 'proposals' is just bizarre....is it just me or do most of her policies not contradict the last brain wave she dreamed up?

And don't get me started on her shocking lack of research; all that guff she spouted about better childcare in France and Denmark has been widely discredited and if she'd bothered to pass the time of day with anyone who actually works in primary education, she'd know that wrap around care is old news, it was called 'extended schools' 8 years ago and any breakfast/after school clubs that survived yet another ill thought out genius idea back then are still running whilst the large numbers of schools with care clubs that folded will have no desire to repeat the same mistake.

I don't know the woman from Adam so would hate to cast aspersions (sp??) BUT it strikes me that she is desperate to make her mark in the education industry and further her career....by hook or by crook!

[wendywu]

The after school clubs do not meet the needs of my parents any way as they finish at 6. The trains from London and the M25 often cause my parents to be well after 6.

This competition has been around for years and made no difference to my business at all.