NDNA and DfE to trial early years ratios

Simona · 21-05-2013, 01:21 PM

I am shocked at this news...what do you think?
Have all our efforts been in vain?

NDNA and DfE to trial early years ratios | Children & Young People Now

**The Juggler** · 21-05-2013, 01:28 PM

i don't think they are going to listen to anyone. what makes me cross is them giving out government grant money - what a waste if they are going to do it anyway

**rickysmiths** · 21-05-2013, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by The Juggler

i don't think they are going to listen to anyone. what makes me cross is them giving out government grant money - what a waste if they are going to do it anyway

No to the Nurseries who receive it. They are laughing every step of the way to the bank.

Simona · 24-05-2013, 12:59 PM

I have not heard of anyone being confused and people have a choice...I think they know who I am referring to

Aviva was referred to as Norwich Union for months after it rebranded and many people insist on calling women Ms when in fact many they dislike the title..
.it is also easier to type ncma in addition to the fact all my paperwork is still in ncma name and will remain so until I decide
Amazingly you typed NCMA but did not use all capitals for pacey...are you picking on a small detail?

What's in a name???

**rickysmiths** · 24-05-2013, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Simona

I have not heard of anyone being confused and people have a choice...I think they know who I am referring to

Aviva was referred to as Norwich Union for months after it rebranded and many people insist on calling women Ms when in fact many they dislike the title..
.it is also easier to type ncma in addition to the fact all my paperwork is still in ncma name and will remain so until I decide
Amazingly you typed NCMA but did not use all capitals for pacey...are you picking on a small detail?

What's in a name???

pacey don't use capitals for their logo or in any of their branding so I am doing what they are.

Just because another company re brands and people refer to them by their old name does not make it right.

We are now members of pacey whether we like it or not Simona, so surely the professional thing to do is to use the new name and promote the new name so those, like our parents who are not members get used to the new name?

All my paperwork at the moment bears the NCMA logo but that will change and probably fairly quickly. I have already changed my headed paper, I will be changing my brochure this weekend and I will be printing out some stickers to put on my Accident Book, Register etc. so any parents viewing me will see the pacey logo not the NCMA one. I have had a parent see me this week who was aware of the change and it really won't take that long for it to be widely recognised and used.

**rickysmiths** · 21-05-2013, 01:31 PM

I am not shocked at all. Wow do you think the D of E would give Childminders funding to test out having 4 under 5s?

No I am not shocked because I truly believe that they will increase their numbers because it increases their profits and look mow they are being paid by me the Tax Payer to have a go!! What a laugh they are very, very cleaver aren't they.!!

**Mouse** · 21-05-2013, 01:35 PM

I read the article eagerly, hoping they were going to fund childminders to trial the increase as well!

I already have 4 under 5s most days, but wouldn't have minded a bit of funding for telling them how I do it

Simona · 24-05-2013, 03:14 PM

I respect your choice to change to pacey and put stickers wherever you like...being an acronym it should be in capitals as NCMA is

If and when I decide to renew my m'ship with 'pacey' I will then abide by the rules, at present I am free to use whatever name I choose and in truth I do like like the name nor did I vote for widening or rebranding
This thread is not about organization names but something much more important and relevant to cms' future and businesses

Simona · 21-05-2013, 06:16 PM

Some reflections ...NDNA is the representing associations for day nurseries so why they have gone against their members' wishes we do not know
That should be interesting when nurseries come out and voice their opinion on this during the pilots?

Could this move work in favour of cms if parents worry about the higher ratios in nurseries and we mostly keep to ours with maybe 4 under 5s?
It will be interesting to see whether lowering the number of staff and increasing the children will actually save money?
if the trials show that it does save money will the savings go to the parents or to the nurseries already struggling for sustainability?

what will PLA's response be in this?? and ncma?

Strangely enough I posted info on 2 conferences in another thread and NDNA CEO will be at the one on 5 June...that will be interesting as this topic is bound to come up?
Still so many questions but this move is quite hard to understand!

Simona · 21-05-2013, 08:04 PM

This is NDNA press release on the work they will be doing...it involves cms!!
I wish someone would explain what this is all about..this is very similar to what 4Children will be doing!

Strange that all these charities have been awarded money for such projects but not ncma? curious indeed!

National Day Nurseries Association | press releases | NDNA uses Department for Education grant to support quality and sustainability

**rickysmiths** · 21-05-2013, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Simona

This is NDNA press release on the work they will be doing...it involves cms!!
I wish someone would explain what this is all about..this is very similar to what 4Children will be doing!

Strange that all these charities have been awarded money for such projects but not ncma? curious indeed!

National Day Nurseries Association | press releases | NDNA uses Department for Education grant to support quality and sustainability

Not curious at all because pacey will not have anything to do with Agency Models and a lot of this work will I am sure lead to this.

The Nurseries don't care about cm and I strongly suspect they will introduce the higher numbers and as I said before they may reduce the costs in some palces and charge more in some where they think parents will pay for lower ratios.

I really don't care, let them hang themselves and if it leads to my business continuing to be more sustainable then good. They are my rivals in business after all.

Simona · 28-05-2013, 06:51 AM

Can't find anything on childcare hubs and no one seems to know
This article came out yesterday
Inside the secret garden

Simona · 25-05-2013, 07:39 AM

I have to agree that 'childcare 'hubs' are a worry now simply because of the total silence that has surrounded them but we need to know more about them, which areas they will be in, how will cms fit in them? as equal practitioner or filling in gaps? what will be the cms' role be: childcarer and educator? where will the cm be based? what role do LAs play in this? where will the cms work from the hub or their home? who recruits them?
will childcare hub have many parents go to them rather than cms?
I have read somewhere in this saga that cms can participate in hubs...so maybe we will have a choice???

Lots of questions unanswered and somehow this makes me nervous because the issue has suddenly landed in the news and no one knows a thing about it?...or do they?

While concentrating on agencies which still need to be piloted and, have no funding from the DfE hubs have suddenly sprung up and get quite a lot of funding from the dept....
I am a bit suspicious but won't speculate, we need to research and ask questions as many questions as we can and get answers

It is a bit of a coincidence that out of the 3 conferences I am going to 2 have cms hubs and agencies as topics for discussion...one with Ofsted the other with a panel that includes ncma CEO...curious!!

Simona · 22-05-2013, 09:10 AM

Rickysmiths...with all DUE respect...I do not really care what ncma will do or otherwise...
Are you saying all these projects are 'agency' based and ncma has washed its hands of what damage they may do to cms...or the fact they may indeed help independent cms??
ncma are against agencies..a good reason for questioning what is happening under our very nose

I would like ncma to issue a statement about all this..it is long overdue...maybe you could encourage them to come out in support of their members who have pleaded for some clarification for several weeks now and do it in ncma local which is their vehicle for speaking to us

Your comments appear to be splitting cms and nurseries...after we achieved some sort of integration I wonder if it is helpful
Preschool and nurseries have strong representation...what do we have? an association that has opened its arms to everyone and cms, in my view, will lose out!

Simona · 23-05-2013, 07:29 AM

NDNA have explained that they will be running 12 trials on 'Integrated wrap around care' with day nurseries, cms, schools and academies

This is very similar to what 4Children will do with their grant and, I believe, it has been referred to as 'childcare hubs'

I have been asking ncma for an explanation, clarification or interpretation on what this project will mean for cms but so far they have not responded

I feel cms are owed an explanation as to why other organisations are being granted money for these projects and what effect it will have on our businesses

**mama2three** · 23-05-2013, 07:44 AM

Im as worried by the 'hubs' as by the agencies now!

as far as I can see the central hub will allocate nursery / preschool places to children and fill the times before 9 and after 3/6 with childminders. Childminders who would quite probably be better for the child ALL DAY. We are just filling the gaps , whilst the 'real' care / education isnt available. Right back to a 2 tier system in one fell swoop. And cant they see that those children will still use our limited spaces. We cant afford to take them on at 'afterschool' rates - those 3 early years spaces are what makes us viable businesses. very few could afford not to fill them.
This is a step ( in my view) to 2 yr olds and over in schools..they need to get the wrap around care in place as the schools arent going to extend their hours are they. That spoof 'babyfarm' article is looking less and less ridiculous.

**lisbet** · 23-05-2013, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by mama2three

Im as worried by the 'hubs' as by the agencies now!

as far as I can see the central hub will allocate nursery / preschool places to children and fill the times before 9 and after 3/6 with childminders. Childminders who would quite probably be better for the child ALL DAY. We are just filling the gaps , whilst the 'real' care / education isnt available. Right back to a 2 tier system in one fell swoop. And cant they see that those children will still use our limited spaces. We cant afford to take them on at 'afterschool' rates - those 3 early years spaces are what makes us viable businesses. very few could afford not to fill them.
This is a step ( in my view) to 2 yr olds and over in schools..they need to get the wrap around care in place as the schools arent going to extend their hours are they. That spoof 'babyfarm' article is looking less and less ridiculous.

This ^ is the impression I have got from all I've read on the subject.

Things, for example, like the MGC document defining childminders as offering "care" and nurseries as offering "care and education"

- looks like the principles of the EYFS are being unravelled, just like ECM seems to have been swept under the carpet...

The plans to remove space restrictions and remove the need for a dedicated early years Ofsted inspection within schools will also remove barriers to schools taking in very young children.

Simona · 23-05-2013, 08:07 AM

The worry comes from not being clear about this ...all we can do is ask for clarification over and over again
I have just posted another message to ncma and will continue to do so until they reply and, if not, a letter to the CEOs will follow.

I am attending a conference in early June where there will be an interactive discussion with the Ofsted Principal Officer on the following: inspection intervals, more stringent workforce requirement and a possible move to cms hubs'

That tells me all is in place so cms should have the right to know what is coming and prepare!!

**sarah707** · 23-05-2013, 05:02 PM

I have been reading comments on other forums and groups about this funding with interest.

Some of the comments have seemed very unfair to me. Without proper knowledge and information I don't think we can judge.

I look forward to hearing your feedback Simona

Simona · 23-05-2013, 05:21 PM

ncma have responded about this funding and they are unsure themselves and worried about these trials and have asked NDNA to clarify further...
lets hope we do get one but these childcare hubs seem to be the buzz word at present

For those interested this is the agenda for the 13 June conference on The future for Early Years and Childcare...the discussions at 9.30 ands 10.20 are a bit of an eye opener!

http://www.westminsterforumprojects....-childcare.pdf
I will feedback as much as I can