2 year old funding...why cms need to be heard

Simona · 12-05-2013, 08:31 AM

Once again this topic pops up...it is a scheme the DfE is putting all their efforts in but encountering many obstacles themselves from some LAs who are digging their heels in!!

I feel strongly on this issue because it is becoming very clear that we have another 2 tier system in place according to which LA you are lucky, or unlucky, to be in and the subject of their conditions which exclude you from delivering the funding...or lucky because your LA has decided a long time ago to be inclusive

ABC nursery chain is this morning 'flagging up' on Twitter the fact that from September they will offer the 2 year old funding...good for them

I cannot, however, see any cm going on twitter and advertising the same service....sad really that we trail behind simply because we still have to overcome the discriminatory system put in place by some LAs

If you are planning for your 'independent' status from September accessing the funding will be vital...you may not want to look after the 2 year olds but selling that service to parents with 3/4 year olds will be a plus for sustainability

On the other hand ...are you happy to have the 2 year olds but worried the funding drops too low when they get to 3??

We need to flag up these problems now as the scheme is being rolled out...
I intend to do so when I attend the conference on 5th June on the 2 year old scheme with the DfE and James Hempsall who is in charge of the scheme (met him on Friday) and have also had a long discussion with Sharon Hodgson yesterday at the conference I attended

Please look at the other post: Good/Outstanding cms do not need to belong to a network... and let me have your 'experience' so I can take it there
3 simple questions to answer:
1. are you included in the scheme...if YES did you have any conditions imposed on you?

2. Not able to do the funding? Why?

3. is the funding a worry to you?

All efforts are being used to fight ratios but for cms agencies and inclusion in the funding for 2,3 and 4 year olds remain very important

**loocyloo** · 12-05-2013, 09:18 AM

1. are you included in the scheme...if YES did you have any conditions imposed on you? yes, i was part of a 2 yr pilot scheme, so been involved for almost 2 yrs now. the only conditions i had were that i had to become accrediated ... BUT i had just moved to a new area and having been part of a network before, i was already in the process before 2 yr funding was mentioned. i had to be good or outstanding and had a couple of visits from DO.

2. Not able to do the funding? Why? N/A

3. is the funding a worry to you? no, i get paid monthly and the funding stays the same ( more or less ) for 2, 3 & 4 yr olds. childminders currently get a higher rate of funding than preschools/nurseries in LA

i advertise that i offer 2, 3 & 4 yr old funding and have done since i started advertising when i moved. it has definately influenced some parents to come to me, and to stay with me. the only problem i have is that the criteria for 2 yr old funding has become tougher than it was during the pilot and i know of a couple of families for whom 2 yr funding would be amazing and do so much for the child, but they don't quite tick the right boxes.

**The Juggler** · 12-05-2013, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Simona

Once again this topic pops up...it is a scheme the DfE is putting all their efforts in but encountering many obstacles themselves from some LAs who are digging their heels in!!

I feel strongly on this issue because it is becoming very clear that we have another 2 tier system in place according to which LA you are lucky, or unlucky, to be in and the subject of their conditions which exclude you from delivering the funding...or lucky because your LA has decided a long time ago to be inclusive

ABC nursery chain is this morning 'flagging up' on Twitter the fact that from September they will offer the 2 year old funding...good for them

I cannot, however, see any cm going on twitter and advertising the same service....sad really that we trail behind simply because we still have to overcome the discriminatory system put in place by some LAs

If you are planning for your 'independent' status from September accessing the funding will be vital...you may not want to look after the 2 year olds but selling that service to parents with 3/4 year olds will be a plus for sustainability

On the other hand ...are you happy to have the 2 year olds but worried the funding drops too low when they get to 3??

We need to flag up these problems now as the scheme is being rolled out...
I intend to do so when I attend the conference on 5th June on the 2 year old scheme with the DfE and James Hempsall who is in charge of the scheme (met him on Friday) and have also had a long discussion with Sharon Hodgson yesterday at the conference I attended

Please look at the other post: Good/Outstanding cms do not need to belong to a network... and let me have your 'experience' so I can take it there
3 simple questions to answer:
1. are you included in the scheme...if YES did you have any conditions imposed on you?

2. Not able to do the funding? Why?

3. is the funding a worry to you?

All efforts are being used to fight ratios but for cms agencies and inclusion in the funding for 2,3 and 4 year olds remain very important

1. Our LA are opening it to everyone with good or above gradings. t&c's will be sent to everyone soon apparently.

2. funding is an issue. we talked at a network meeting about being open with parents and saying from the beginning that although you can offer the 2 year old places, it is not feasible from a business point of view to offer the 3 year funding so you are happy to keep the child on after they reach NEF age, but I would be encouraging them to apply for a school/other nursery place to use their NEG. The wraparound care would likely not be an issue as most of the 2 year places will likely be sessional anyway with parents unable to self fund the rest of the week, unless their circumtances change and they find employment (they do get to keep the funding if this happens as long as they originally qualify for the scheme). This is not unusual. I have worked with social services for a few years and often they remove the 2 year olds and put them in preschool/school nursery at 3 so they can access the NEG funding. I could not feasible offer NEG at the rates LA's are talking about.

However, this sessional care is also an issue for childminders. What if the 2 year parents want to use their funding for a short session 5 days per week? We might need to encourage them to use 2/3 longer days with us to make it feasible for us. Or you end up with sessions yourself having one child in the morning and the other in the afternoon? Funding is tto also so unless you work this way, how are holidays funded?

3. LA's need to be careful about digging their heels in on this issue or it will give the government another reason to get rid of them to free up the funding to everyone. I have to say, I am in favour of LA's monitoring who accessing the funding Simona. I think those that are accessing it should be visited and monitored more often than the huge gaps in ofsted visits and have provision to a support person. I'm not saying it should be the old way of jumping through huge paperwork hoops to join a network just have a dedicated DO/EY advisor and regular visits. When I've worked for SS they always visit to see how the child is getting on but I think termly or twice yearly visits are a good idea for those offering funding.

**FussyElmo** · 12-05-2013, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Simona

Once again this topic pops up...it is a scheme the DfE is putting all their efforts in but encountering many obstacles themselves from some LAs who are digging their heels in!!

I feel strongly on this issue because it is becoming very clear that we have another 2 tier system in place according to which LA you are lucky, or unlucky, to be in and the subject of their conditions which exclude you from delivering the funding...or lucky because your LA has decided a long time ago to be inclusive

ABC nursery chain is this morning 'flagging up' on Twitter the fact that from September they will offer the 2 year old funding...good for them

I cannot, however, see any cm going on twitter and advertising the same service....sad really that we trail behind simply because we still have to overcome the discriminatory system put in place by some LAs

If you are planning for your 'independent' status from September accessing the funding will be vital...you may not want to look after the 2 year olds but selling that service to parents with 3/4 year olds will be a plus for sustainability

On the other hand ...are you happy to have the 2 year olds but worried the funding drops too low when they get to 3??

We need to flag up these problems now as the scheme is being rolled out...
I intend to do so when I attend the conference on 5th June on the 2 year old scheme with the DfE and James Hempsall who is in charge of the scheme (met him on Friday) and have also had a long discussion with Sharon Hodgson yesterday at the conference I attended

Please look at the other post: Good/Outstanding cms do not need to belong to a network... and let me have your 'experience' so I can take it there
3 simple questions to answer:
1. are you included in the scheme...if YES did you have any conditions imposed on you?

2. Not able to do the funding? Why?

3. is the funding a worry to you?

All efforts are being used to fight ratios but for cms agencies and inclusion in the funding for 2,3 and 4 year olds remain very important

1. Yes included in the scheme and yes had to be part of the network and become accredited. Our network was opened up to anyone who wanted to join good or above last year and no one joined. Speaks volumes to me. One of the reasons they have to sign up for so many hours of training.

2. N/a

3. No the funding is not a worry.

Our fis at the min will give out cms who can offer the funding the same as preschools nurseries. And yet still everyone has vacancies

**Optimalstar** · 12-05-2013, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Simona

Once again this topic pops up...it is a scheme the DfE is putting all their efforts in but encountering many obstacles themselves from some LAs who are digging their heels in!!

I feel strongly on this issue because it is becoming very clear that we have another 2 tier system in place according to which LA you are lucky, or unlucky, to be in and the subject of their conditions which exclude you from delivering the funding...or lucky because your LA has decided a long time ago to be inclusive

ABC nursery chain is this morning 'flagging up' on Twitter the fact that from September they will offer the 2 year old funding...good for them

I cannot, however, see any cm going on twitter and advertising the same service....sad really that we trail behind simply because we still have to overcome the discriminatory system put in place by some LAs

If you are planning for your 'independent' status from September accessing the funding will be vital...you may not want to look after the 2 year olds but selling that service to parents with 3/4 year olds will be a plus for sustainability

On the other hand ...are you happy to have the 2 year olds but worried the funding drops too low when they get to 3??

We need to flag up these problems now as the scheme is being rolled out...
I intend to do so when I attend the conference on 5th June on the 2 year old scheme with the DfE and James Hempsall who is in charge of the scheme (met him on Friday) and have also had a long discussion with Sharon Hodgson yesterday at the conference I attended

Please look at the other post: Good/Outstanding cms do not need to belong to a network... and let me have your 'experience' so I can take it there
3 simple questions to answer:
1. are you included in the scheme...if YES did you have any conditions imposed on you?

2. Not able to do the funding? Why?

3. is the funding a worry to you?

All efforts are being used to fight ratios but for cms agencies and inclusion in the funding for 2,3 and 4 year olds remain very important

As I've only just got my first grading I've not been in a position to apply to offer the funded places. I have someone coming on Thursday, I assume She has the role of DO but I'm not certain, to discuss how or what I need to do to offer funded places. I will hopefully be able to answer your questions then.

**Angela234** · 12-05-2013, 09:38 AM

Our area is for Good or Outstanding childminders

I can't apply because I was graded "Met" at a non children present inspection last year(Jan)she did give me a lovely write up. I was still on the sick having 2 years of for cancer, didn't start back to work till Sept. Ofsted said I had to have the inspection to see if I still meet the requirements my last graded was outstanding one before that was the then highest grade of good, so annoyed don't know how long it will be before I get a graded inspection

Simona · 12-05-2013, 09:45 AM

I totally agree it is counterproductive of the LAs to dig their heels in as they will give Truss ammunition to wipe them out
I also agree that cms need support in between inspections regardless of grade

The whole system is shambolic...how can a govt policy be implemented if 152 LAs decide to do it differently? something I asked Stephen Twigg yesterday and Sharon Hodgson...I will hammer this home again this week

To be very honest I feel that if our services are good enough it is up to the DfE to remove the restrictions now and not wait until September
I am sick and tired having to go 'cap in hand'

Thanks for your replies...keep sending!

**jillplum** · 12-05-2013, 10:05 AM

I have been trying to get information from my La for months now. As soon as I heard about the proposed changes I started asking how do I do this? I still havent had any answers. Previously in my area even tho I was rated good and part of a quality assured network and had a level 3 I still couldnt offer places for funded 3 and 4 year olds. Another childmind started the accreditation process well over a year ago and still hasnt been accredited. In fact since the new proposals she has heard nothing from the La. I dont know of a single childminder in my area able to access the funding.

**sarah707** · 12-05-2013, 10:55 AM

1. are you included in the scheme...if YES did you have any conditions imposed on you?

Yes, I am included in the 3 year old scheme. I had to do quite a bit of paperwork to start with - safeguarding audits and other documentation - and attend meetings.

I still have to attend regular partnership meetings.

I then found that the parents of both children for whom I had originally registered were told by nurseries that they could not share hours with me and they HAD to go to the nurseries (not me) full time to access their funding or they would quite possibly lose their child's school place

Obviously this was totally wrong but parents believed nurseries so I lost out!

2. Not able to do the funding? Why?

In our area you can't just do it - you have to be chosen or ask and you have to have good or outstanding grade.

3. is the funding a worry to you?

Yes it is. The 2 year funding will be a lot higher (as things stand at the moment) than the 3 year funding. This will leave us with a problem when the child turns 3 and their hourly rate drops BIG time.

The 3 year funding is lower than my normal hourly rate and I would be concerned about sustainability if parents only wanted 15 hours.

My other worry which a lot of people have not recognised / addressed yet is the catchment area for the 2 year funding. A lot of these children are likely to be coming from homes in crisis - yet we are seeing LA support being slowly eroded.

Who will help childminders, on a day-to-day basis - with caring for these children? Certainly not Ofsted!!

I know how hard you are working on this one Simona and I applaud you for your determination to get answers for us all. Thank you

Simona · 12-05-2013, 11:29 AM

I am not doing anything that is exceptional but hope that cms voices are heard as we seem to be left on our own to battle ratios, agencies, LAs, Ofsted, networks, independence and now the 2 year old funding which is proving that discrimination against cms is rampant and will continue unless we do something

I did put a question to Ed Miliband yesterday at the conference (my hand shot up so quick I am surprised my arm did not come off its socket)...had a long discussion with Sharon Hodgson (invited her to visit my setting so she can see 'evidence' of why childcare cannot be cheaper) and nailed Stephen Twigg for 2 minutes...mmm have lots of worries on all counts!

I will feedback on that later on (sorry I am not too good at blogs...I prefer action) ...I am utterly exhausted from 2 days of travelling to meetings and conferences but also really aware we have a lot of work to do because I am amazed at how much ignorance there is out there as to what is really happening at ground level
I have 2 more conferences in June and I am determined to give DfE and the chap rolling out the 2 yo scheme a hard time on the first one 5th June and then tackle Ofsted on the second on 23rd June...hardly any time left for cminding...just as well I only work 3 days!!