Children and Families Bill

[silvermist]

Its just getting worse!

[LauraS]

So you telling me a cm I know who at her last inspection was graded inadequete but our local ey team went in and basically put everything in place and on her reinspection got a good. Will now be able to provide funding she would not have been allowed to under our LA rules.

Head is being bashed against a brick war

Playing devils advocate, though, why should cms in different areas have to jump through different hoops to offer the same government funding?

The Ofsted inspection system is hugely flawed and unfair anyway. When a 'good' cm can say without a care in the world that she doesn't bother with planning or ljs or monitoring the development of the children in her care in any way, shape or form because she isn't due an inspection for another year, you have to wonder if truss isn't partly right (and perhaps, as i did, wonder why i bother). Some cms need agencies to monitor them more closely.


Anyone notice the contradiction in the last two articles? In the nurseryeorle one, truss states that agencies will place children and take payments etc. In the one before, it suggests a much lessnhands on approach with monly etc being dealt with by cm.

Also, Ofsted having the ability to charge for inspections and providers being able to request inspection, I wonder how , much they might charge (enough to price cms out of ofsted?) and in what circumstances we could request reinspection?

[tori4]

Does anyone understand if.....

You will be able to offer 2yr old or 3yr funding without bring part of an agency?

Do we think they will only allow tax credits / cc vouchers to be paid to agency CM ?

What are the actually benefits of being part of an agency?

Who will reimburse me for the qualifications I have only just completed/ paid for once my role is no longer viable /:-( - let alone all of the 'reasonable adjustments ' I have made to our family home n garden.

Feeling v cross and down hearted - xT

[FussyElmo]

Does anyone understand if.....

You will be able to offer 2yr old or 3yr funding without bring part of an agency?

Do we think they will only allow tax credits / cc vouchers to be paid to agency CM ?

What are the actually benefits of being part of an agency?

Who will reimburse me for the qualifications I have only just completed/ paid for once my role is no longer viable /:-( - let alone all of the 'reasonable adjustments ' I have made to our family home n garden.

Feeling v cross and down hearted - xT

As far as as any reports/statements yes you will be able to offer the funding as long as you are good or understanding without being part of an agency.

There has been nothing implied to say we can still get paid via tax credits.

Reimburse you - well nobody

Come on everyone yes the agnecy proposal is furher down than we thought BUT lets not give up hope. Get evryone you know to sign the petition - contact your mp. Lets not give up without fighting

[FussyElmo]

Playing devils advocate, though, why should cms in different areas have to jump through different hoops to offer the same government funding?

The Ofsted inspection system is hugely flawed and unfair anyway. When a 'good' cm can say without a care in the world that she doesn't bother with planning or ljs or monitoring the development of the children in her care in any way, shape or form because she isn't due an inspection for another year, you have to wonder if truss isn't partly right (and perhaps, as i did, wonder why i bother). Some cms need agencies to monitor them more closely.


Anyone notice the contradiction in the last two articles? In the nurseryeorle one, truss states that agencies will place children and take payments etc. In the one before, it suggests a much lessnhands on approach with monly etc being dealt with by cm.

Also, Ofsted having the ability to charge for inspections and providers being able to request inspection, I wonder how , much they might charge (enough to price cms out of ofsted?) and in what circumstances we could request reinspection?

Totally agree I do think that all the different authorites should sing from the same hymm sheet. However its suprising how many cms in our area wouldnt go the extra mile to get accreditied. Too much paperwork - cant be bothered - didnt want to be part of the network because you had to agree to do 18 hours of training per year. I cannot speak from everyone perspective but from mine

[tori4]

As far as as any reports/statements yes you will be able to offer the funding as long as you are good or understanding without being part of an agency.

There has been nothing implied to say we can still get paid via tax credits.

Reimburse you - well nobody

Come on everyone yes the agnecy proposal is furher down than we thought BUT lets not give up hope. Get evryone you know to sign the petition - contact your mp. Lets not give up without fighting

Pls can u forward me to the correct links for petition, letter to MP and info for parents - will try n drum up support from local CM group too. ;-)

[FussyElmo]

Pls can u forward me to the correct links for petition, letter to MP and info for parents - will try n drum up support from local CM group too. ;-)

http://www.*****/en-GB/petition...s-ratios-alone

http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/fo...nders-etc.html

[justgoodfriends]

Like all legislation the Bill itself is a bit difficult to digest, so I have produced a summary - linked from Twitter, but reproduced below:

Childminder Agencies – is that it?

The Department for Education published the Children and Families Bill 2013 today. This Bill contains long-awaited details of the proposed “Childminder Agencies” – but of course these are buried in 191 pages of legal-speak. To cut through this Childminder Focus has prepared a summary of what the Bill sets out for childminders and agencies.

Registration

Childminders will be able to register with agencies instead of Ofsted.

Agencies will decide whether the requirements for registration are satisfied (i.e. they do the checks on CRB, qualifications etc.), and can impose additional requirements of its own. Unlike Ofsted they will not be obliged to register anyone who meets the requirements, they can pick and choose.

There may be regulations preventing someone from registering with more than one agency, or with an agency and with Ofsted.

Agencies

Anyone (including a company or other legal “person”) may apply to be an agency, and if they meet the requirements Ofsted must register them.

Ofsted may inspect individual childminders registered under an agency, but Ofsted’s report on an agency is only required to cover the services provided by the agency to the childminders registered with it and the quality of its leadership and management. Ofsted will not be required to report on the care provided by childminders registered under an agency. The implication of this is that the only sources of information about the quality of care provided by an individual childminder are the childminder themselves and the agency.

No Change

Ofsted will still be obliged to maintain the existing registers, inspect those on the registers, and admit anyone to the registers who is not disqualified and meets the conditions for registration – agencies will not be compulsory for anyone. Of course Ofsted may revise their fees for registration and inspection, but it remains to be seen how much an agency would need to charge to remain viable.

Agencies will not be allowed to provide childcare, individual childminders will continue to do that so the contract, and the payment, stays between the childminder and the parent with the agency not required to take any risk on either side (e.g. of replacement care in case of the childminder’s unavailability, or non-payment by parents).

So you might ask – is that it? The only change for childminders seems to be that they can register with “an agency” instead of Ofsted. It remains to be seen what advantages that might have.

Still doesn't answer whether the agency will provide graded inspections or just monitoring visits or even if agency minders will need to implement the EYFS. At least from that it looks like we can remain as self-employed which is something I suppose. Still very depressing reading for those of us that value our individual graded EYFS inspections.

[MrAnchovy]

Still very depressing reading for those of us that value our individual graded EYFS inspections.

Actually I don't think it is - this will be one of your key selling points as agency childminders will not have any independently graded inspections.

[loocyloo]

Actually I don't think it is - this will be one of your key selling points as agency childminders will not have any independently graded inspections.

but for how long before we have to pay for them? and how much?

and how will they decide when you are due an inspection? it is now 52months since my last inspection ... my DO enquired on my behalf ( and a couple of other minders with similar waits ) and was told that since EYFS 12, a new inspection cycle has begun, starting with satisfactory, moving to good & then outstanding minders and it could conceivably be towards the end of the 4 year cycle before i am inspected !!! now, i know i'm still working the same, if not better, and i have regular DO visits! but i do wonder if ofsted will ever visit again!!! so what will you do? phone and book an inspection appointment? what if you try and book and they can't accomodate you?

it will still end up a 2 tier system

[lisbet]

Thank you for that summary, Mr Anchovy. What Truss said in Nursery World today seemed to be significantly different though! And I imagine Truss' version is where they hope the bill will end up after amendments etc ::

From Truss' article in Nursery World:

"Someone who is interested will be able to go along to a local agency which will check out their premises, provide training, and – if they’re good enough – give them the stamp of approval. The agencies will also deal with government funding, market services, place children, collect fees from parents and offer cover if a childminder falls ill. The agencies themselves will be regulated by Ofsted."

So, the agencies have all the power, but there is no mention of fair wages, paid annual leave and sick leave or pensions? If agencies are "placing" children with us, controlling government funding and tying us into THEIR Ofsted grading for better or worse, then it seems like all the good points of being a self employed early years provider are removed without any of the benefits of a contract of employment!

[SammySplodger]

This is SO depressing! I was a CM for 3 years before my youngest started school, had an 18 month break (moved house, looked for other jobs..) realised I really missed being a CM and, last Sept started the re-training and re-registering process...

So, while I've been working my socks off training, adapting my home and preparing for Ofsted, paid out £650 (no return on that yet) all merry hell appears to have broken loose!

I'm currently busy finding clients (plenty of calls!) and due to start properly on 25 Feb.

BUT I'm now wondering where I will be in another years time? I'm horrified at the thought of losing my independence and having to give an agency money for dubious 'services'. I'm seriously worried that the alternative is probably paying out £££ for the 'pleasure' of inviting Ofsted round to interrogate me every few years.

Wondering if this really was such a good idea after all... bet I'm not the only one... :-((

Why can't the Tories just leave us alone?

[SammySplodger]

Does anyone know: can you 'hedge your bets' by joining an agency AND also taking on clients independently?

What if (like myself) Ofsted have only recently visited and approved you (thus removing the need for the agency to check you out).

???????

[MrAnchovy]

Does anyone know: can you 'hedge your bets' by joining an agency AND also taking on clients independently?

This is not yet fixed, although it seems unlikely (the Bill doesn't prevent it, but allows regulations to prevent it).

What if (like myself) Ofsted have only recently visited and approved you (thus removing the need for the agency to check you out).

???????

It is up to the agency to decide policies for its own inspections (and its own registration depends on the quality and implementation of its policies). I would imagine any agency would want to have as little cost and effort associated with taking on a new CM as possible, so if you have a recent Ofsted it's policies may say it doesn't need to inspect you for a while. But none of this has been worked out yet.

[MrAnchovy]

BUT I'm now wondering where I will be in another years time? I'm horrified at the thought of losing my independence and having to give an agency money for dubious 'services'.

In another year's time nothing will have changed. All this new legislation does is allow agencies to exist alongside direct Ofsted registration, there is a lot more detail to sort out. Liz Truss has declared that she wants a "pilot scheme" of agencies to start in September 2013. She does not have a good track record of meeting self-imposed deadlines. The idea is that there will be a "full launch" in September 2014.

[SammySplodger]

Thank you Mr Anchovy

Have just finished preparing new client contract and other paperwork (note time of posting)...

[MrAnchovy]

Thank you for that summary, Mr Anchovy. What Truss said in Nursery World today seemed to be significantly different though! And I imagine Truss' version is where they hope the bill will end up after amendments etc h dear:

No, the Bill just allows agencies to exist, it doesn't say how they will work - that is not how primary legislation works. Think of it like the Childcare Act and the EYFS - the Childcare Act sets out the absolute requirements (e.g. maximum of 6 children per childminder) and the EYFS fleshes out the detail (1 under 1, 3 under 5).

From Truss' article in Nursery World:

"Someone who is interested will be able to go along to a local agency which will check out their premises, provide training, and – if they’re good enough – give them the stamp of approval. The agencies will also deal with government funding, market services, place children, collect fees from parents and offer cover if a childminder falls ill. The agencies themselves will be regulated by Ofsted."

I think that the only place agencies like that will ever exist is inside Liz Truss's head. Inspection of premises, training, registration, marketing maybe, but what parent is going to want their child "placed" by an agency in someones home? The legislation doesn't envisige this, it says "An [agency] may arrange for prescribed information held by the agency in relation to [childminders] to be made available for the purpose of (a) assisting parents or prospective parents in choosing [a childminder]..."

Collecting fees from parents - maybe: expect to pay a minimum of 2% for this service. Cover if a childminder falls ill - maybe, if they have someone on their books who is unpopular enough to be available. Independent childminders need to show parents how many days they have had off ill in the last few years to help parents judge just how valuable it is to parents to know that if your childminder is ill, and if there is anyone available, then the agency will wheel in someone they have never met to look after their kids.

[lisbet]

No, the Bill just allows agencies to exist, it doesn't say how they will work - that is not how primary legislation works. Think of it like the Childcare Act and the EYFS - the Childcare Act sets out the absolute requirements (e.g. maximum of 6 children per childminder) and the EYFS fleshes out the detail (1 under 1, 3 under 5).


I think that the only place agencies like that will ever exist is inside Liz Truss's head. Inspection of premises, training, registration, marketing maybe, but what parent is going to want their child "placed" by an agency in someones home? The legislation doesn't envisige this, it says "An [agency] may arrange for prescribed information held by the agency in relation to [childminders] to be made available for the purpose of (a) assisting parents or prospective parents in choosing [a childminder]..."

Collecting fees from parents - maybe: expect to pay a minimum of 2% for this service. Cover if a childminder falls ill - maybe, if they have someone on their books who is unpopular enough to be available. Independent childminders need to show parents how many days they have had off ill in the last few years to help parents judge just how valuable it is to parents to know that if your childminder is ill, and if there is anyone available, then the agency will wheel in someone they have never met to look after their kids.

Thank you for this explanation, Mr Anchovy - nice to have some reassuring info on the issue for a change!

[justgoodfriends]

Agencies will not be allowed to provide childcare, individual childminders will continue to do that so the contract, and the payment, stays between the childminder and the parent with the agency not required to take any risk on either side (e.g. of replacement care in case of the childminder’s unavailability, or non-payment by parents).

So you might ask – is that it? The only change for childminders seems to be that they can register with “an agency” instead of Ofsted. It remains to be seen what advantages that might have.

This seems to imply that we can remain as self employed? Can anyone point me to where in the Children & Families Bill it says this as I'm struggling to verify this.
Thank you

[MrAnchovy]

This seems to imply that we can remain as self employed? Can anyone point me to where in the Children & Families Bill it says this as I'm struggling to verify this.
Thank you

There is no legislation that refers to the employment status of childminders, including this Bill. Employment status is a matter of fact, based on a number of factors derived from case law including badges of trade, mutuality of obligation, right of substitution, right of control etc. If the parents contract with the agency then I think there would actually be a good case that the childminders would be employees - this would of course blow the whole agency idea out of the water: agencies are not going to be viable if they are burdened with the obligations of an employer, they can't make the numbers work on nursery ratios so won't stand a chance on childminder ratios. Also I cannot see that any insurer would quote an affordable premium either for employers liability or public liability where the employees are providing childcare in premises for which the employer is not responsible - in fact this would make childminders homes a place of business for the agency, implying a change of planning use, business rates, Disability Discrimination Act adaptations, the list goes on.

And anyway the Bill doesn't allow agencies to provide childcare, so they can't enter into a contract with a parent to do that.

It's a brilliant point though, I bet there are many people that have made assumptions and not thought this through.