So guys... what next?

[Tazmin68]

I read the info from the nursery world website which also did not say that is was optional so I really think we need clarification on will it effect all funding and optional or not but if we are going to be left out in the cold by not joining ie support and training then it looks like there might be any option but to join. I cannot see us being able to opt out and carry on as normal somewhere down the line it will end up in or out!!!!!!

As I have funded children I will have no option if that happens and my fees will go up to cover agency fees.

[Tazmin68]

I read the info from the nursery world website which also did not say that is was optional so I really think we need clarification on will it effect all funding and optional or not but if we are going to be left out in the cold by not joining ie support and training then it looks like there might be any option but to join. I cannot see us being able to opt out and carry on as normal somewhere down the line it will end up in or out!!!!!!

As I have funded children I will have no option if that happens and my fees will go up to cover agency fees.

I have read through it again and yes it does state the agency is optional. It does state that the agency will deal will gov funding ie 2,3 and 4 year olds. I cannot see them letting both agency and non agency minders both care for funded children it would defeat the object.

[Kiddleywinks]

That's interesting. Where have you seen that as I can't find anything that says only cms linked to an agency will be eligible for tax credits etc. That's my fear at the moment as that would give me very little choice about whether or not to join an agency.

Don't think it says anything about the tax credits eligibility only being available to agency minders Mouse, just people's gut feelings as to where it could be heading.

Government want to cut costs

Independent minder charges an average of £4 per child per hour x 6 children = £24 per hour
If those 6 children were subsidised by the government just on tax credits @ 70% they're forking out £16.80 an hour for parents to use an independent minder

Now, say (for arguments sake)
Agency minders are paid £10 per hour (for upto 6 children)
Plus £5 (a 50% cut) for the agency for costs
Makes the same care £15.00 an hour

Now if the government are still funding 70% of that, it will only cost them £10.50, saving £6.30 an hour

Doesn't take a genius to figure out where the government are going to head with this one

and trust me, I am no genius.

I do however have a maths GCSE and one in English - maybe I should go after 'her' job


Yes, joining an agency is optional, but I doubt it will take long for it to not be a viable option - one simple change in the law of where tax credits and/or vouchers can be used and it's game over!

[Mouse]

Don't think it says anything about the tax credits eligibility only being available to agency minders Mouse, just people's gut feelings as to where it could be heading.

Government want to cut costs

Independent minder charges an average of £4 per child per hour x 6 children = £24 per hour
If those 6 children were subsidised by the government just on tax credits @ 70% they're forking out £16.80 an hour for parents to use an independent minder

Now, say (for arguments sake)
Agency minders are paid £10 per hour (for upto 6 children)
Plus £5 (a 50% cut) for the agency for costs
Makes the same care £15.00 an hour

Now if the government are still funding 70% of that, it will only cost them £10.50, saving £6.30 an hour

Doesn't take a genius to figure out where the government are going to head with this one

and trust me, I am no genius.

I do however have a maths GCSE and one in English - maybe I should go after 'her' job


Yes, joining an agency is optional, but I doubt it will take long for it to not be a viable option - one simple change in the law of where tax credits and/or vouchers can be used and it's game over!

But 6 children could only include school children, so not a typical hourly rate other than in holidays & after school. In general, during the day it would be a maximum of 4 young children @ £4 and hour = £16. 70% of that is £11.20
If you're assuming an agency would pay £10 an hour for all the children, add in their £5 fee, making £15, of which tax credits could pay £10.50...a saving of 70p!

That's why plucking figures out of thin air is meaningless. You cannot compare what an agency might possibly charge when we have no idea at all about how they're going to work.

If it was a set rate of £10 an hour I'd jump at the chance...and only look after 1 child! Brilliant pay for 1-2-1 care!

[Kiddleywinks]

But 6 children could only include school children, so not a typical hourly rate other than in holidays & after school. In general, during the day it would be a maximum of 4 young children @ £4 and hour = £16. 70% of that is £11.20
If you're assuming an agency would pay £10 an hour for all the children, add in their £5 fee, making £15, of which tax credits could pay £10.50...a saving of 70p!

That's why plucking figures out of thin air is meaningless. You cannot compare what an agency might possibly charge when we have no idea at all about how they're going to work.

If it was a set rate of £10 an hour I'd jump at the chance...and only look after 1 child! Brilliant pay for 1-2-1 care!

I see what you're saying (plucking figures is pretty meaningless at this stage ), but the gist of where things look like they're heading remains the same.
I do 'get' that it's all if's, but's, and maybe's, but at the moment that's ALL we have.
I'm all for changes to help parents, but not at the risk of damaging my own way of life. I LIKE being self employed. I LIKE being able to choose parents that I feel comfortable with, I LIKE the fact that parents have chosen ME, I LIKE the fact that I can bend the rules a little because I feel like being nice/kind with no one else's approval to be sought, (parent overslept last week, should have charged, but didn't. It didn't take me over my numbers, I only had to answer to myself, and I knew parent had been working overtime so must have been shattered as she is NEVER late.)

If I wanted to be employed, I'd have sought work at a nursery, a preschool etc

Ratio's this time are remaining the same 1:6, but a small change of having 2 under 1's, and 4 under 5's.
Next time, which there will be, as this change has 'worked so well' maybe the powers that be will change it so that we and nurseries are on the same ratios...?

The government are looking at cutting costs, we all know that the tax credits system as it stands isn't the most reliably monitored in it's current form.
Introduce a route (agency) where the direction of funds is more accountable, kills two birds with one stone - saves the government money, and allegedly saves parents money too.
It's what happens to the independents like you, me and others here that bothers me with this introduction, and no, I realise it won't happen today or tomorrow, (it's going to take some time to put everything in place for this agency model) but in 5 years time where will we be?
It may well be that a choice of agencies means we can opt for one that doesn't change our individuality too much - an LA one for example, might work much the same way as a network does now, so yes, we will have to wait and see what form/s it takes, however I personally still feel very uneasy about where I suspect things are heading - I sincerely hope I'm very, very wrong

[FussyElmo]

Heres a scenario.

20 cms join a agency - they pay a percentage of what they earn to the agency or the parents pay more for the privedge of using said agency. However there is only enough work for 10 cms. Do the cms who have work pay more to the payments for 10 who dont. Will the fees go up for the parents to cover the shortfall.

Not such a widely imaginative scenario I have two cm friends who are in 5 mins distance of me we have 8 under 5 spaces between us but only 2 are filled. I know of others who are exactly the same

The government can increase the ratios all they want but that still wont make the jobs for people to go to available.

Nothing I have read suggest that tax credits etc wont be paid to independent childminders in fact if the government were to do so you could actually present a case that the market is being cornered and there has to be competition.

[Mouse]

I see what you're saying (plucking figures is pretty meaningless at this stage ), but the gist of where things look like they're heading remains the same.
I do 'get' that it's all if's, but's, and maybe's, but at the moment that's ALL we have.
I'm all for changes to help parents, but not at the risk of damaging my own way of life. I LIKE being self employed. I LIKE being able to choose parents that I feel comfortable with, I LIKE the fact that parents have chosen ME, I LIKE the fact that I can bend the rules a little because I feel like being nice/kind with no one else's approval to be sought, (parent overslept last week, should have charged, but didn't. It didn't take me over my numbers, I only had to answer to myself, and I knew parent had been working overtime so must have been shattered as she is NEVER late.)

If I wanted to be employed, I'd have sought work at a nursery, a preschool etc

Ratio's this time are remaining the same 1:6, but a small change of having 2 under 1's, and 4 under 5's.
Next time, which there will be, as this change has 'worked so well' maybe the powers that be will change it so that we and nurseries are on the same ratios...?

The government are looking at cutting costs, we all know that the tax credits system as it stands isn't the most reliably monitored in it's current form.
Introduce a route (agency) where the direction of funds is more accountable, kills two birds with one stone - saves the government money, and allegedly saves parents money too.
It's what happens to the independents like you, me and others here that bothers me with this introduction, and no, I realise it won't happen today or tomorrow, (it's going to take some time to put everything in place for this agency model) but in 5 years time where will we be?
It may well be that a choice of agencies means we can opt for one that doesn't change our individuality too much - an LA one for example, might work much the same way as a network does now, so yes, we will have to wait and see what form/s it takes, however I personally still feel very uneasy about where I suspect things are heading - I sincerely hope I'm very, very wrong

I'm afraid I just can't get myself worked up about things that might, or might not ever happen. It's just my nature to always look on the bright side. I don't waste any energy on worrying about what might be. I prefer to wait until I know what is actually going to happen, then put all my energy into fighting for what I don't think is right. The thought of agencies concerns me, but certainly doesn't panic me & I won't lose any sleep over it yet. That might change when the actual plans are known, but I don't see the point in considering all the 'what ifs' now

[Kiddleywinks]

I'm just a born worrier lol

I used to work for British Rail, I worried about the privatisation when it was first announced it was a possibility
I worked for a training company, I got worried when we started to go down to 20 trainees, then 12, then 6, when we closed for 6 weeks (great for me as it was the school holidays lol) I REALLY started worrying, 4 months later the company went pop

[AgentTink]

I'm afraid I just can't get myself worked up about things that might, or might not ever happen. It's just my nature to always look on the bright side. I don't waste any energy on worrying about what might be. I prefer to wait until I know what is actually going to happen, then put all my energy into fighting for what I don't think is right. The thought of agencies concerns me, but certainly doesn't panic me & I won't lose any sleep over it yet. That might change when the actual plans are known, but I don't see the point in considering all the 'what ifs' now

I am with you on this one Mouse. I am not concerned by agencies because lets face it, no one is going to agree to work for such low pay, so how on earth would any agency sign up childminders if there wasn't a win-win situation for all involved (childminder, agency and parent)

I think some agency's may actually benefit some areas if they are run by the LA or a Local School. They could raise the profile of childminders for example. But until an agency is actually set up and running then everything is just what-if's right now.

Nowhere in the offical document does it state that only agency workers will get funding for 2, 3 and 4 year olds, so for now i will just carry on with my day job and wait to see what information gets released by the government in due course.

[AgentTink]

I read the info from the nursery world website which also did not say that is was optional so I really think we need clarification on will it effect all funding and optional or not but if we are going to be left out in the cold by not joining ie support and training then it looks like there might be any option but to join. I cannot see us being able to opt out and carry on as normal somewhere down the line it will end up in or out!!!!!!

As I have funded children I will have no option if that happens and my fees will go up to cover agency fees.

I believe the quote you have read is the following for nursery world:
"So the idea is that if you want to be a childminder you register with the agency, they would do things like sort out your training, your insurance, they would market your services to parents, they’d deal with Government funding, collect money from parents and you as a childminder would be paid as part of that."

This statement was in the context of the question of getting more childminders to join the field, as apparently so many had left in the last 10 years due to not liking all the paperwork. All it states is that if you did join a agency they would do everything for you such as deal with government funding. In my opinion this does not say that only agency childminders will get funding.

In the report it goes as far to say that actually it will be Ofsted's rating of childminders/nurseries that will dictate whether we can give funding and we wont have to jump through so many LA hoops to offer it, like some do at the present time.

[sarah707]

I have read every reply ... and I want to thank every one of you!

I now have 2 pages of scribbles that I am going to put into some semblance of order

Thank you xx

[justgoodfriends]

Originally Posted by justgoodfriends

Would we still be required to implement the EYFS if we are regulated by agencies?

[QUOTE=LauraS;1204149]Of course, and no doubt the agency will stick their oar in regarding HOW we implement it too.

Given that Sir Wilshaw made it clear that he thinks childminders are 'not using the EYFS properly' and Liz Truss has said last year that she doesn't think we should have to, it's not inconceivable that agency childminders would be exempt from implementing it is it?

On the info given on the NCMA website about the proposals it says
The Minister has made clear at recent consultation meetings and in media articles that the model is now being considered as an option for childminders who could also choose to remain independent and inspected as individuals by Ofsted if they preferred. In particular Ms Truss has said she sees the model working best for childminders new to the profession, those struggling to fill vacancies or run a business. It still remains unclear whether the agency would or would not be required to operate within the EYFS framework.

http://www.*************/news/campai...ncy_model.aspx

[lisbet]

1. No to agencies and group inspections

I am lucky and my LA provides a fab childminding support team already, without curtailing child minders autonomy. Also, there are 3 children's centres near me, but I would only be happy about being linked to one of those for the purposes of agency/ group inspections.


2. No to increasing the number of children each adult can care for in a nursery setting.

I used to work in a nursery that strove to give responsive care to each baby and child, and it was challenging enough under current ratios, regardless of our level of education and expertise. I think more children per adult will damage the quality of relationships and early years experiences, and have an especially negative impact on the most vulnerable children.

3. No to the 'schoolifcation' of the early years!!!

Getting children into school environments from 2yrs old and 'traditional' nursery classes teaching young children to read and write is just not developmentally appropriate and shows a disregard for all the ways that the EYFS currently supports children's learning and development across the range of areas.

[lisbet]

[QUOTE=justgoodfriends;1204533]Originally Posted by justgoodfriends

Would we still be required to implement the EYFS if we are regulated by agencies?

Of course, and no doubt the agency will stick their oar in regarding HOW we implement it too.

Given that Sir Wilshaw made it clear that he thinks childminders are 'not using the EYFS properly' and Liz Truss has said last year that she doesn't think we should have to, it's not inconceivable that agency childminders would be exempt from implementing it is it?

On the info given on the NCMA website about the proposals it says
The Minister has made clear at recent consultation meetings and in media articles that the model is now being considered as an option for childminders who could also choose to remain independent and inspected as individuals by Ofsted if they preferred. In particular Ms Truss has said she sees the model working best for childminders new to the profession, those struggling to fill vacancies or run a business. It still remains unclear whether the agency would or would not be required to operate within the EYFS framework.

http://www.*************/news/campai...ncy_model.aspx

I noticed that in ET's report it defined nurseries as providing 'education and care' and child minders as providing 'care'.

Think they are trying to turn the clock back to how things were before the EYFS 2008 was introduced to promote equal status for all early years providers.

[bunyip]

Sarah - don't make too much work for yourself right now.

You do realise that in a few months time we'll all be begging you to fill the free downloads section with resources for teaching quantum physics to 2yo's.