So guys... what next?

[rosebud]

No... you are being helpful... you are helping me by pointing out other views which I can use to build into my thinking.

I know why it wouldn't work for me - and many others said it wouldn't work for them - and that's why I started the petition in the first place.

But that doesn't mean we are all right - it just means that in our areas, in our positions etc we have concerns.

I can see some benefits to an agency - esp for new minders - but not if I have to give them a high percentage of my income, wait for them to send work my way, rely on them for my inspection grading, use paperwork they produce, jump through extra hoops, have them turn up to make suggestions that are frankly silly...

do you see what I mean??

Absolutely Sarah. And all reasons why I would not use an agency either but its easy to forget how hard it is when you're just starting out and know nothing. (In my case absolutely nothing!)
Another thought - the report talks about not duplicating work by taking the emphasis away from LA's and that only Ofsted will do inspections and that accessibility to 2-3-4 year old funding will be based on Ofsteds ratings. However it seems to me that much of the work they want agencies to do is what LA'a are already doing - training, etc

[hectors house]

Sounds to me like the developemnt workers are at risk and with that the free or subsidised training we now enjoy.
This comes from the comments about ofsted being the bench mark for qualifying for drawing down funding which will free up money lea will no longer need to spend,

Development officers in Somerset are all being made redundant in the Summer - they are working on skeleton staff anyway as rest of them went in redundancies last year!

[loocyloo]

i wouldn't use an agency ...

my LA is very supportive with helpful, generally knowlegdable staff and good training frequently at weekends. i am acreddiated and have children on both 2 yr & nursery funding. ( i just had to have a level 3 and be good or outstanding to be accrediated ) my LA FIS & local childrens centres act like an agency in signposting parents to childminders. i am in a rural area with only a handful of childminders in a 10mile radius and then its probably up to 20 miles in some directions before you find another childminder. we are all busy, but only as busy as we want to be. i am outstanding and have 25yrs + of experience. whilst i am happy to share & support, i don't want MY grading boosting a weaker childminder, nor to i want to be told who i can look after and for how much! AND have to pay for experience! i couldn't afford to, not without putting up my fees!

i am concerned that ofsted could cope with what might be asked of it. after all, they couldn't even manage to get new certificates out to all childminders in time, yet we had to hit the ground running on the 1st sept 2012!

i'm horrifed about 2 yr olds being in school, bless, some of the reception children i know can't handle being in school!

and i don't know where they think all these children are!!! or what the parents are going to do jobwise! we don't all live in big cities!

being able to have 4 under 5 will help me, as i will be able to take on funded 2 yr olds and be able to offer them the hours/days that suit, rather than shoe horn them into odd spaces, rather than losing fulltime fees for a very part time child.

good luck sarah, making sense of what everyone is saying!

sorry its a bit rambled & garbled, my brain has heard so much today it is flitting around all over the place.

[nipper]

Development officers in Somerset are all being made redundant in the Summer - they are working on skeleton staff anyway as rest of them went in redundancies last year!

Same thing has happened here. Lots of people being 'moved around'. Infact just before Christmas we all received an email from a member of our local childminding team saying her job had been 'reassigned' and she was leaving. This particular lady was wonderful and spearheaded many of the courses that I attended. She said in the email that she was taking a long holiday down under and then would be 'setting up her own business' I think now, it sounds as if she knew what was about to happen.

[FussyElmo]

I can see this now being the end of the road for our do's. Yes we had to do more than ofsted expects to get accreditation but it stopped cms just turning up and not putting the effort in. We all know the cms who this applies too :-(

[hectors house]

Sarah - I don't really know what I want, so easier to say what I don't want -

I definitely don't want to work for an agency

I don't think nurseries should be allowed to double their ratios - even if their staff are better qualified than they are at present - nurseries should offer similar to childminders, a nuturing learning environment not just offer crowd control with tiny tots sitting at tables learning to read and write.

If nurseries are allowed to increase numbers and they do bend to Ms Truss's wishes and lower costs, I may struggle to get enough work - I tick along nicely with my current ratios.

I could manage 4 children if I was careful with their ages but certainly wouldn't want all little ones - managed to get out to a toddler group with a 13 month, 20 month and 2 1/2 year old today, but couldn't and wouldn't want another one under 2 as haven't got eyes in back of head and as you said in your starter thread it is all fine until something goes wrong or several children need your attention at the same time.

I am looking into doing funded spaces for 2 & 3 year olds but not sure I want Ofsted inspecting me for that

Thank you Sarah for organising the petition and for all your hard work at keeping us informed - you really are a star

[sharonmanc]

Agencies are my big worry too, especially if they deal with 2 and 3 year old funding and if this is how parents can access tax credits, then if i opt not to be part of an Agency as apparently it is voluntary ( but for how long) then I would virtually be dead in the water as I would be forced to sign with an Agency so parents could access this funding, and in the process loose my independence.

[sarak31]

Agencies are my concern too although I would question how sustainable the model they have put together is. My concern is I think although they are saying they are voluntary in order for them to work they will have to try to push us towards them otherwise they will just have two systems operating alongside each other which clearly can't be their intention. I suspect what will happen will be that all funding, training, support, accreditation etc will only be available if you are part of the network. Therefore effectively freezing those that aren't part of the network out. They may say that if you choose to remain outside of the network you choose to remain a self employed sole trader and as such will be responsible for all your own training, support costs etc etc.

I have no idea how they are intending to run the networks paying childminders a 'wage'. I think the idea of paying a percentage, whilst a better (but still bad) idea than a wage, just isn't going to work - if networks have the power to send business to which ever childminder they want then the percentage of earnings can be open to abuse - it isn't transparent enough for a local council approach they will want something less open to favourtism. Therefore I think they will offer a 'wage' to childminders which I can't see how this will work - if someone has 1 child will they be paid the same as someone with 3, will someone be able to say they only want to fill one space or will they be required to fill all available spaces? I just can't see how they can work the payment part of the networks in a sustainable way so a little bit of me is thinking we are worrying about nothing as I just can't see how it will work.

I also see the networks as failing as they can't possibly shut down independent businesses like childcare.co.uk where lots of us get our business direct. So many of us will still be operating and speaking with parents directly, the network just won't get much business and those that are part of the network will either be forced to leave and go it alone or will fall apart. I certainly know that the FIS in my area doesn't get much business - I can't remember the last parent that came to me via there, it is all direct through websites like childcare.co.uk - and the children's centers also rarely get enquiries.

The only way I can see the networks working is if they let childminders operate as independent self employed entities still and offer support and quality improvement - as some networks do now - but in a more focused way and make it compulsory and force a percentage of wage payment for this support. (which I would equally dislike but can see how it would benefit new childminders as there is a lack of information out there for them and this would be great for them). The way they have set it up now just isn't going to be sustainable though and won't last 2 minutes I am sure!

Re the ratios - I think in principle I am neither for or against - I would appreciate the flexibility in my own setting where there is a cross over in ages for under 1s for example for a month as I don't care for over 5s so would always be under my numbers but my ratios need flexibility sometimes iyswim. The continuity of care is ok but doesn't cover new business where you might want a 11m old and then take on a 6m old but you have still got that month before the 11m is out of your under 1s. But I wouldn't change my numbers ultimately on a permanent basis I don't think. I think where they have got this wrong is they have linked it to qualification only - I think it should be 2 fold. I think the requirements should be qualifications plus a good or outstanding ofsted OR 5 years experience and a good or outstanding childminder. You can have all the qualifications in the world but be a rubbish childminder and vice versa - you can be a brilliant childminder but not have the qualifications they have decided they want this year (as it seems to be an ever moving feast at the moment!)

For what it's worth I think they have pretty much made their minds up about agencies and time will tell over the next 6 months or so how it will all work and what the implications are on us.

[Tazmin68]

It is the fact that parents will not longer pay but pay the agency that I find the issue. Parents have already told me that they want o pay me not an agency and that contract is with me not agency. La don't always pay childcare fees on time for examp 2,3 and 4 year funding. I have had a child on placement with me now for 10 weeks with ss and I still have not been paid. If I had to pay a fee I would prefer it done on direct debit basis and parents pay me for childcare first.

[loocyloo]

just thought, what doesn't seem to have been thought about is that childminders are (generally) not doing this job for a hobby, or a bit of pocket money! it is our fulltime job and what we do to earn a living. we can't hang around waiting for weeks for agencies etc to get round to paying us, or make mistakes, as need to pay bills/mortgages/food etc!

[TooEarlyForGin?]

Agree with pretty much what everyone else said.

Agencies worry me - although currently not mandatory - we all know what will happen if they go ahead!

Children starting school at 2

I am fed up of doing double work for OFSTED and the LA, I have just filled in tonnes of paperwork for them to justify me carrying on being accredited. I have all my own paperwork to show, but they wanted it filled in on their forms, so I would actually welcome a change that all childminders have to meet the same accreditation levels for funding, as it varies so wildly from LA to LA, it is unfair on families.

Us having 4 - I think that treated reasonably its something we all can utilise, to help current families and give us more flexibility, but concerns already saying "so if we can have 4, can we have 5 if we do a variation". It will be the unscrupulous that will take on as many as possible.

I have already had one parent concerned I will just take on extra business, I have assured her I won't. I will only go to 4 for current families, children I know and when it is safe to do so. She said it would negate the reason she uses a childminder. If anything she mentioned the ratios of nurseries. I understand your point Sarah that it may start a price war, but she is horrified that one person would be in charge of 6 - 2 year olds. She said what if they had staff off sick, it would be a potential nightmare and would now not ever use a nursery, so maybe a good sales point for us.

[justgoodfriends]

Would we still be required to implement the EYFS if we are regulated by agencies?

[LauraS]

Would we still be required to implement the EYFS if we are regulated by agencies?

Of course, and no doubt the agency will stick their oar in regarding HOW we implement it too.

It's sad, I'm frightened that I'm going to stop being self employed with the freedom to run my business according to my own judgement and philosophy, and become a contractor working to someone else preferences. It would mean combining the worst elements of home working and SE with the worst elements of being trapped working for a nursery.

If.it happens like that, I'll be going back to my old profession and I know some other cms wouldn't want to work like that either. They may well struggle to recruit anyone beyond those who want to make some extra pocket money imo.

[SammySplodger]

I choose to be a Childminder because I wish to offer good QUALITY childcare and I already voluntarily stay well below the existing ratio. I do not subscribe to the 'pile them high' mentality. My parents are happy to pay me slightly more than the going rate locally because I only ever have 3 children maximum. I will not be taking on more children, although I would consider two unrelated babies under 12 months. To be honest, I do not understand why I can't already do this, as toddlers can be harder to keep tabs on than babies.

So, I'm not taking on any extras and I won't drop my rates either.

As far as agencies go, I want nothing to do with them. I am SELF employed, perfectly capable of finding clients and I cannot see any benefit in using an agency - surely they can't make this compulsory?

Part of me would love to never have to deal with Ofsted ever again, but I can see that registration inspections give us credibility. I'd welcome more thought on adapting the existing Ofsted system, to cut costs, but only if it can also truly benefit us. Not sure how exactly... Maybe making inspections less time consuming and some evidence being online, over the phone or paper-based, so that the actual visit only lasts about an hour?

[SammySplodger]

Sorry if I'm being thick - but do we have a Union? Does anyone belong to one? How do we go about representing opposition to Agencies properly? I'm more concerned about that part of the issue than the ratios, as I'm worried about Agencies being linked to Parents claiming tax benefits. So depressing...

[rosebud]

Agencies are my big worry too, especially if they deal with 2 and 3 year old funding and if this is how parents can access tax credits, then if i opt not to be part of an Agency as apparently it is voluntary ( but for how long) then I would virtually be dead in the water as I would be forced to sign with an Agency so parents could access this funding, and in the process loose my independence.

I would like reassurance that if I choose to remain self-employed (I do not want to join an agency) that I will still be able to offer funded places and that parents will still be able to use tax credits and voucher schemes to assist with paying me. This has not been made clear and is a big concern for me. If the only way that parents can claim such assistance or use funded places is to go through an agency then I will have no business. In 9 and a half years I have only had one family who has not had some kind of financial support -either through tax credits or voucher schemes or the child has been funded by the LA. I need to be able to offer this to stay in business.

[Tazmin68]

What concerns me is that is sounds that only the minders linked to the agencies will be able to have children whose childcare is paid for through tax credits, childcare vouchers, 2,3 and 4 year old funding. That will cover the majority of us. I have two families using tax credits, I currently provide childcare for 2 and 3 year old funded children so I would be forced to become linked to an agency.

[nipper]

I also see the networks as failing as they can't possibly shut down independent businesses like childcare.co.uk where lots of us get our business direct. So many of us will still be operating and speaking with parents directly, the network just won't get much business and those that are part of the network will either be forced to leave and go it alone or will fall apart. I certainly know that the FIS in my area doesn't get much business - I can't remember the last parent that came to me via there, it is all direct through websites like childcare.co.uk - and the children's centers also rarely get enquiries.

I agree wholeheartedly with this as well. I mean come on, in this day and age with the internet what do you do if you need something or you want to shop around ...you Google it. I cannot honestly see many parents using childcare agencies when they can do their own research. Childcare.co.uk affectively cuts out the middleman and I for one will continue to use it as most of my mindees have come about as a result of its existence.

[Kiddleywinks]

I would like reassurance that if I choose to remain self-employed (I do not want to join an agency) that I will still be able to offer funded places and that parents will still be able to use tax credits and voucher schemes to assist with paying me. This has not been made clear and is a big concern for me. If the only way that parents can claim such assistance or use funded places is to go through an agency then I will have no business. In 9 and a half years I have only had one family who has not had some kind of financial support -either through tax credits or voucher schemes or the child has been funded by the LA. I need to be able to offer this to stay in business.

That is also my biggest concern with the introduction of an agency system. I feel longer term plans will 'downgrade' independent childminders in that parents will not be able to access government childcare relief systems (tax credits, vouchers etc) to pay for our fees.

To me, an agency would just a glorified nursery system and there are enough nurseries to choose from as it is, they will also be able to increase their numbers under a new system so why have an agency?

[Mouse]

What concerns me is that is sounds that only the minders linked to the agencies will be able to have children whose childcare is paid for through tax credits, childcare vouchers, 2,3 and 4 year old funding. That will cover the majority of us. I have two families using tax credits, I currently provide childcare for 2 and 3 year old funded children so I would be forced to become linked to an agency.

That's interesting. Where have you seen that as I can't find anything that says only cms linked to an agency will be eligible for tax credits etc. That's my fear at the moment as that would give me very little choice about whether or not to join an agency.