Replies to my questions re 2 year olds in school provission

[Penny1959]

Maybe deregulating us and allowing us to take on more under 5s is the goverments way of getting us to take on the 2 year olds that get free funding.

In our area we are always full. The hourly rate for the funding is less than the going rate. So no one is going to take on a child for 15 hours a week at a lesser rate in place of a full time child full time.

Wenduwu - my head is buzzing with all the different bits of information that we have - and the synical side of me says - mmmm - it was all decided long ago (years) and while we have all been jumping through hoops the government have been planning to 'get rid' of us.


I hope I am wrong - very wrong because I would rather stand on my famous soap box and tell the world that I was wrong - than have a future were chldminders revert to being babysitters and two year olds are in school settings (because as we all know school nurseries are far too formal and large for 2 year olds)

Going to email a few people I know - who might know more

Penny

[mum26]

That would be good Penny - to have more information. I certainly do not want to be regarded as a 'babysitter' and, of course, have reduced fees for my services.

I have been on a briefing session last week regarding the 2 year old funding in our area. We have been told that it will only be available for disadvantaged 2 year olds - however they are expecting a big take-up over the next few years and we were told our local authority are wanting childminders to play a large part in this as they recognise that home from home care is ideal for this age group. To this end network childminders and also childminders who have a level 3 qualification will be able to access 2 year old funding, once they have been accepted onto the scheme. It was also said that the funding can now be taken as an extended offer - which means that pre-schools may consider opening in the holidays if they are able.

This all seems so confusing - on the one hand we are being told that we are highly regarded and then on the other hand there seems to be plans to completely alter the way we are able to operate.

[rickysmiths]

Poor children and poor teachers. Not only will they have more nappies to contend with but non talkers as well.


I think its like the original introduction of Nursery vouchers and then 3year old funding, the government see it as a way to give free childcare so mums can go back to work. The parents will go for it because so many pushy parents seem to think their children 'Learn' more at Day Nurseries than at a childminders, so if they are offered proper school they will be over the moon. They seem to think (around here anyway) that they want their children in an environment with lots of children and learning as early as possible because its good for them?

Less well off will go for it because its free and they know what school is.

I fear in a big way for this generation of forced children.

It saddens me that all the common sense seems to have gone out of parenting and hot housing is the in thing, my children's generation are suffering from the pressure from GCSEs through to the end of Uni if they go. Now we want to start the institutionalising from 2years old. Crazy.

I have had two two year olds in the last year who would be worn out by the end of a term and being stimulated so much would not be the right thing.

Why don't we let our children be children and get out and about and experience the world around them before we commit them to the same four walls everyday.

[blue bear]

we don't have school nurseries here, its all childcare on non domestic premises and as such they are all registered for 2-4 year old's or 1-4 year old's.

we live in a high poverty area and the take up of 2 year old places is predicted to be high.

When a two year old application goes to the board they make a decision on the type of provision would be best for the child, they tell us their preference is for childminders because of the low adult to child ratio and because many of these children need to sample 'normal' family happenings.

Unfortunetly there are not many childminders eligible to take on these two year old's as you need an nvq3 and take extra training provided lea. I am the only one in my town. Here you have to ring the lea and volunteer to be on the scheme apparently they don't contact you (they did me)

Work here is quite low with lots of minders and nurseries/pre schools with vacancies, its only going to get worse with lots of two year old's getting places in nurseries under the vulnerable two year old scheme.

Our LEA pay us higher than the going rate per hour and are very supportive, my experience has been positive.

[uf353432]

That would be good Penny - to have more information. I certainly do not want to be regarded as a 'babysitter' and, of course, have reduced fees for my services.

I have been on a briefing session last week regarding the 2 year old funding in our area. We have been told that it will only be available for disadvantaged 2 year olds - however they are expecting a big take-up over the next few years and we were told our local authority are wanting childminders to play a large part in this as they recognise that home from home care is ideal for this age group. To this end network childminders and also childminders who have a level 3 qualification will be able to access 2 year old funding, once they have been accepted onto the scheme. It was also said that the funding can now be taken as an extended offer - which means that pre-schools may consider opening in the holidays if they are able.

This all seems so confusing - on the one hand we are being told that we are highly regarded and then on the other hand there seems to be plans to completely alter the way we are able to operate.

I fully expect that to be the way it runs here as well - the notes suggest that we will be able to operate outside of the 38 weeks as well - which in essence is good for me - If I don't have capacity in term - I can then offer it in holidays. I can't imagine many of the preschools operating in school holidays round here - the nursery I can see will benefit as well as childminders

[sarahjane]

I think more childminders should become accredited so that parents don't have to go down the preschool route - because in my area lots of parents still value childminders all the way up to walking them into the first day at school.
.

I would love to be accredited, and indeed went through the whole process despite the fact my local authority only pay £3.10 per hour compared to my usual £4 per hour. I flew through the whole process with flying colours only to stumble at the last block when they decided that my Montessori Qualification which is equivalent to a Level 3 did not meet all their criteria!

I am now left with the option of doing my complete level 3 and paying for it myself as there is no funding or not becoming accredited. I can't afford to pay therefore that is the end of that. So they have lost someone with a good Qualification who is good at her job because they can't see past the red tape and be flexible.

[uf353432]

I would love to be accredited, and indeed went through the whole process despite the fact my local authority only pay £3.10 per hour compared to my usual £4 per hour. I flew through the whole process with flying colours only to stumble at the last block when they decided that my Montessori Qualification which is equivalent to a Level 3 did not meet all their criteria!

I am now left with the option of doing my complete level 3 and paying for it myself as there is no funding or not becoming accredited. I can't afford to pay therefore that is the end of that. So they have lost someone with a good Qualification who is good at her job because they can't see past the red tape and be flexible.

Thats ridiculous - see that is essence is the problem - GREAT childminders being prevented from adding to the supply because of tight LA restrictions - at least if they relax that a bit - then LA's can use their own local knowledge as to whom might be suitable rather than having a checklist.

[Heaven Scent]

we don't have school nurseries here, its all childcare on non domestic premises and as such they are all registered for 2-4 year old's or 1-4 year old's.

we live in a high poverty area and the take up of 2 year old places is predicted to be high.

When a two year old application goes to the board they make a decision on the type of provision would be best for the child, they tell us their preference is for childminders because of the low adult to child ratio and because many of these children need to sample 'normal' family happenings.

Unfortunetly there are not many childminders eligible to take on these two year old's as you need an nvq3 and take extra training provided lea. I am the only one in my town. Here you have to ring the lea and volunteer to be on the scheme apparently they don't contact you (they did me)

Work here is quite low with lots of minders and nurseries/pre schools with vacancies, its only going to get worse with lots of two year old's getting places in nurseries under the vulnerable two year old scheme.

Our LEA pay us higher than the going rate per hour and are very supportive, my experience has been positive.

I wonder how they can do that our LA pay £3.25 ph plus 20p ph for being flexible then 5p ph for having outstanding - I think they pay another 25p for having one of their recognised teaching qualifications but that is it they told us it was nationwide and there was no movement in it at all. I think someone was telling us porky pies and have been skimming off some of that money to subsidise another budget!!!

[Penny1959]

I wonder how they can do that our LA pay £3.25 ph plus 20p ph for being flexible then 5p ph for having outstanding - I think they pay another 25p for having one of their recognised teaching qualifications but that is it they told us it was nationwide and there was no movement in it at all. I think someone was telling us porky pies and have been skimming off some of that money to subsidise another budget!!!

You may be right HS - fro my expoerience they all pay a different rate! And nothing to do with 'going rate' in the area


Penny

[loocyloo]

North Yorkshire pay £4.85/hr for 2 yr olds, and its limited to the 15 hrs of term time weeks, although 'i think' i read/heard something about being able to spread that care out over the whole year , making it 11 hrs or something a week?

i know have been recommended for the children i have had, as being the right place to go, gently socialising, lots of support, experiencing family life etc, then at 3, they tend to move on to nursery. i'm waiting to see what my current mum wants to do when LO turns 3.

[SYLVIA]

Am I reading this wrong. Are 2,3&4 year olds all getting 15 hours free. If so will we not be able to charge for those hours if we drop and collect, Because thats what I do now. Or are they going to be there all day? I AM GETTING SO CONFUSED with all this information!

[Monkey26]

I offer funding to 2, 3 and 4 year olds... The only children to have ever accessed this are 3 year olds who have already been in my care for several months/years. I have never had a child come to me specifically because I offer funded places and I haven't been approached at all regarding 2year old places so hmmmmmm is all I have to say at this point x

[loocyloo]

3&4 yr olds get 15 hrs of nursery grant (ie FREE to parents - nursery/CM get paid by LA) a week, termtime.
disadvantaged 2 yr olds WILL get 15hrs of funded sessions ( again FREE to parents - nursery/CM get paid by LA) a week termtime. but not all 2 yr olds. the families need to match certain criteria, which i think is linked to children being eligible for free school meals, child or parent having a learning disability, and i can't remember the rest i'm not sure when this is rolling out nationwide, might be this september, but i'm in north yorkshire and my area have been piloting the scheme for the past year, and i know scarborough have been piloting for the past 2 years, along with other, mainly inner city areas.

if i had a mindee who i had before & after nursery, who was accessing their funded sessions, i would still charge whilst they were there.

[Penny1959]

National roll out for 2 year olds (still disadvantaged) is from September. New code of practice out any minute - expecting to be able to offer over an extendedperiod of time - but not full year - again from September.

Also expected that 'organisations' will be able to tender to LA to provide the framework for offering the FE - so a group of cm's could form an orgnisation and have their own network offering the FE - of course the LA will still decide if tender is approved - so it may not be as easy as it sounds - but would fit in with the agency model - and them accessing the FE for the cm's in the agency.

Penny

[miffy]

Very interesting penny but not sure cm's should rush to form an organisation or the powers that be might think we're coming round to their agency idea

I have been told that in Notts alone 600 places are needed but it's not clear where they will arise.

Miffy xx

[Penny1959]

Very interesting penny but not sure cm's should rush to form an organisation or the powers that be might think we're coming round to their agency idea

I have been told that in Notts alone 600 places are needed but it's not clear where they will arise.

Miffy xx

Indeed Miffy - however if we are quick we could form the sort of agency idea that I have in my head - and beat ET to it.

Waiting for code of practice to be out before going ahead with anything more than outline ideas - but lets just say individual inspections would stay and agency fees would be just to cover costs

Penny

[wendywu]

You see where we are 30 min direct line to London my parents all work up town.

So its a 50 to 55 hour week , they earn too much to get any funding and even if they did they would still have to find a minder to cover the remaining 40 hours per week. If i covered this i would still want paying for the full 55 hours.

I think to get the 2 year old funding parents have to earn less than £16000 per year per couple.

So they would only want to use a minder for the 3 free hours per day. They would not be able to afford any extra hours. With out being mean not really viable.

That is why not many minders are taking the funding up in surrey.

[miffy]

Indeed Miffy - however if we are quick we could form the sort of agency idea that I have in my head - and beat ET to it.

Waiting for code of practice to be out before going ahead with anything more than outline ideas - but lets just say individual inspections would stay and agency fees would be just to cover costs

Penny

Not sure I'd want to jump before I was pushed BUT cake inspections sound highly preferable to what ET's suggested so far - will read your plans with interest Penny

Miffy xx

[md0u0131]

I guess we'll see what Wednesday brings. I have to say I don't have a good feeling about it

[Roseolivia]

We had a childminders meeting last week and were told there is currently funding for deprived 2yr olds to access NFE (not sure how many hours). From Sept 2013 it will be open to all 2yrs old whether they're from a deprived area or not (i think this is what DO was saying). Our local childcare team are really good with us childminders and are pushing for us to have the 2yr olds.