Yr wages lol....

[Monkey1]

Deleating my post

[francinejayne]

as part of our CM training, our council send us on a 'business and accounting' course which was run by a tax accountant and was very useful!

the lady running our course advised us to go through our books and make sure we put in all of the little "ice cream" treats etc that we buy the children during the summer etc.

she also told us that if we attend training courses in our own time it is OK to put down our hourly rate multiplied by the number of hours on the course as an expense as that is what we charge when we are working.

her advice was actually that unless you were earning in excess of £20k a year then you should be able to find enough expenses etc in order to reduce your income sufficiently so that you don't pay tax, and if when you add everything up you are going to be paying tax then you should go back and find additional expenses to add on!

and before you have a go at me, I am only telling you what our tutor told us - I am not actually saying that I do this!

[Monkey1]

Very well said Francine! Totally agree with you. Let's face it,how many go of us all splurge on new resources ( that we probably dont need) in march just. Because it's the end of the tax year???

[rickysmiths]

as part of our CM training, our council send us on a 'business and accounting' course which was run by a tax accountant and was very useful!

the lady running our course advised us to go through our books and make sure we put in all of the little "ice cream" treats etc that we buy the children during the summer etc.

she also told us that if we attend training courses in our own time it is OK to put down our hourly rate multiplied by the number of hours on the course as an expense as that is what we charge when we are working.

her advice was actually that unless you were earning in excess of £20k a year then you should be able to find enough expenses etc in order to reduce your income sufficiently so that you don't pay tax, and if when you add everything up you are going to be paying tax then you should go back and find additional expenses to add on!

and before you have a go at me, I am only telling you what our tutor told us - I am not actually saying that I do this!

Sounds like a dangerous woman to me. You are not allowed to charge by the hour for any time other than the time you have mindees. So you can not charge by the hour for time spent on an evening or weekend course. This is what HMRC say. I think Mr Anchovy has confirmed this in the past.

It is all very well claiming so many expenses that you don't pay tax but to go back and invent some to get your bill down even more sounds dangerous to me.

I have had less income over the last year for various reasons and my expenses are down as well. I realise there are fixed costs regardless of the number for minded children you have but there are lots of variable ones as well like food and outings. Where my expenses have got down a lot is travel because a year ago I had two at pre-school and one at a school I had to drive to. These have all gone and for the last year I have had no car bases school or nursery runs.

I have always been told that a good guide is that your expenses are about 1/3 of your gross income.

I have just done some simple maths and if your Gross income was £20,000 you would need expenses of approx £11,000 to not pay any tax and to me that seems ridiculous. My expenses for this years tax return were about £13,000 but my gross income was way in excess of £20,000 and that was a high year because it included all my new Trofast, and other shelving following our extension and hiring a Porta Kabin to work in while the work was being done and some storage fees.

It amuses me this seeming obsession to get as many expenses as possible so you pay no tax. I don't understand. I don't like paying tax either but if I have earned a decent amount a year then I am glad to have earned it and I want to spend it on me not endless cm resources that I don't really need.

Also the tax man isn't stupid and if you are always claiming tons of expences then it will attract attention. If you have an investigation done you will have to account for every expenditure.

[EmmaReed84]

OK I may get a right kicking for this, so I apologise in advance if I offend anyone!

I am an honest person, I have never stolen anything in my life (intentionally). In fact I once walked out of a supermarket after buying shopping, with a load of dummies on the top of my pushchair not paid for, I got the the car founf them and was mortified, I went straight back to the counter and apologised and paid for them... everyone said I was mad, even the cashier said she doesn't know anyone who would have done that.

I do my accounts and I am really strict with what I put through as expenses. Yes I have bought nappies and wipes for my own child and put those through but I occasionally do use them on mindees I don't feel that would be an issue...(although someone might say that is wrong, if so I will stop)

People often moan about this country, taxes, job losses, less government help etc, well sorry but it is partly the publics fault in the first place, dodgy benefits cheats, dodgy large businesses and off shore accounts, dodgt deals with the large companies and the tax man... but also small businesses like ours trying to pull a fast one and claim expenses to aviod paying tax... Sorry but to me people who do that are no better than cheat.

Like I said sorry if I cause offense and my argument is not based on hardcare research, but it is just how I feel.

Plus if you do things properly then you will have no comebacks on yourself ever!

[francinejayne]

OK I may get a right kicking for this, so I apologise in advance if I offend anyone!

I am an honest person, I have never stolen anything in my life (intentionally). In fact I once walked out of a supermarket after buying shopping, with a load of dummies on the top of my pushchair not paid for, I got the the car founf them and was mortified, I went straight back to the counter and apologised and paid for them... everyone said I was mad, even the cashier said she doesn't know anyone who would have done that.

I do my accounts and I am really strict with what I put through as expenses. Yes I have bought nappies and wipes for my own child and put those through but I occasionally do use them on mindees I don't feel that would be an issue...(although someone might say that is wrong, if so I will stop)

People often moan about this country, taxes, job losses, less government help etc, well sorry but it is partly the publics fault in the first place, dodgy benefits cheats, dodgy large businesses and off shore accounts, dodgt deals with the large companies and the tax man... but also small businesses like ours trying to pull a fast one and claim expenses to aviod paying tax... Sorry but to me people who do that are no better than cheat.

Like I said sorry if I cause offense and my argument is not based on hardcare research, but it is just how I feel.

Plus if you do things properly then you will have no comebacks on yourself ever!

I am not aware that anyone on this thread has said they claim for things that they don't actually spend, other than Cara1235's comment which I read as in jest?

Prior to being a childminder I paid tax from my employment for 20+ years, I have never claimed benefits (other than child benefit), I currently earn about £12k from childminding, and I hold my hands up - I have no intention of paying tax - I think that I have enough expenses to justify not paying tax! And if HMRC want to come and investigate me they jolly well can do - I do not need receipts for anything less than £10 - end of! That is their rule and I am quite happy to stick to it! So if I decide to buy for example, £9 worth of ice cream from the ice cream van every day of the summer holidays then I will do! And I am in no way "no better than (the) cheat(s)" in doing this!

[kindredspirits]

seriously Emma?? seriously you think bumping up your expenditure to avoid paying tax is that bad?? when the MP's who were already on a good wage were claiming ludicrous expenses back, when huge companies with billions of pounds of profit avoid tax you resent a childminder trying to save herself a couple of hundred pounds, if that??

i've never even had enough income to pay tax so have not needed to make massive reciepts etc but i think your post is way off the mark.

[francinejayne]

seriously Emma?? seriously you think bumping up your expenditure to avoid paying tax is that bad?? when the MP's who were already on a good wage were claiming ludicrous expenses back, when huge companies with billions of pounds of profit avoid tax you resent a childminder trying to save herself a couple of hundred pounds, if that??

i've never even had enough income to pay tax so have not needed to make massive reciepts etc but i think your post is way off the mark.

well said!!!!

[Chatterbox Childcare]

seriously Emma?? seriously you think bumping up your expenditure to avoid paying tax is that bad?? when the MP's who were already on a good wage were claiming ludicrous expenses back, when huge companies with billions of pounds of profit avoid tax you resent a childminder trying to save herself a couple of hundred pounds, if that??

i've never even had enough income to pay tax so have not needed to make massive reciepts etc but i think your post is way off the mark.

I think that buying unnecessary items to avoid paying tax is a stupid idea, if you need them it is a different matter. You don't get the whole amount of the items purchased as a tax deduction, just the percentage of it

I am with Ricky and Emma here, if I have earnt the money I am happy to pay the tax and I look at it as in "if I pay tax I must have taken the money"

[~Chelle~]

I am not aware that anyone on this thread has said they claim for things that they don't actually spend, other than Cara1235's comment which I read as in jest?

Prior to being a childminder I paid tax from my employment for 20+ years, I have never claimed benefits (other than child benefit), I currently earn about £12k from childminding, and I hold my hands up - I have no intention of paying tax - I think that I have enough expenses to justify not paying tax! And if HMRC want to come and investigate me they jolly well can do - I do not need receipts for anything less than £10 - end of! That is their rule and I am quite happy to stick to it! So if I decide to buy for example, £9 worth of ice cream from the ice cream van every day of the summer holidays then I will do! And I am in no way "no better than (the) cheat(s)" in doing this!

[The Juggler]

as part of our CM training, our council send us on a 'business and accounting' course which was run by a tax accountant and was very useful!

the lady running our course advised us to go through our books and make sure we put in all of the little "ice cream" treats etc that we buy the children during the summer etc.

she also told us that if we attend training courses in our own time it is OK to put down our hourly rate multiplied by the number of hours on the course as an expense as that is what we charge when we are working.

her advice was actually that unless you were earning in excess of £20k a year then you should be able to find enough expenses etc in order to reduce your income sufficiently so that you don't pay tax, and if when you add everything up you are going to be paying tax then you should go back and find additional expenses to add on!

and before you have a go at me, I am only telling you what our tutor told us - I am not actually saying that I do this!

i have head people say this again and again, but what is the point of running a business for years if you never make any money - surely the tax office would question that and come inspect you not having a dig at you francine just the advice from the course

[francinejayne]

i have head people say this again and again, but what is the point of running a business for years if you never make any money - surely the tax office would question that and come inspect you not having a dig at you francine just the advice from the course

I will be making money, I will be however earning below the tax threshold (hopefully) which therefore means I will (hopefully) not be paying tax.

The point of me running my childminding business in this way is that I get to spend time with my family, I get to be my own boss, I get to have lots of fun and get immense job satisfaction at the same time. And I also intend to buy resources etc in March if it means it will save me paying tax - why should my business and the children I care for not benefit?

I am very fortunate in that my husband has a reasonably well paid job which covers our bills, my earnings pay for the nice things in life. I turn down work if the hours don't suit me - I know I am privileged to be in this position. I do not need to earn mega bucks!

I can and do hold my head up high despite the fact I aim to not pay tax!!! And I reiterate, if the tax office want to come and investigate me they can do, I have nothing to hide!

[EmmaReed84]

I am not aware that anyone on this thread has said they claim for things that they don't actually spend, other than Cara1235's comment which I read as in jest?

Prior to being a childminder I paid tax from my employment for 20+ years, I have never claimed benefits (other than child benefit), I currently earn about £12k from childminding, and I hold my hands up - I have no intention of paying tax - I think that I have enough expenses to justify not paying tax! And if HMRC want to come and investigate me they jolly well can do - I do not need receipts for anything less than £10 - end of! That is their rule and I am quite happy to stick to it! So if I decide to buy for example, £9 worth of ice cream from the ice cream van every day of the summer holidays then I will do! And I am in no way "no better than (the) cheat(s)" in doing this!

Two scenarios.

You actually DO buy £9 worth of ice cream everyday (weekdays) of the summer, say for example 6 weeks holidays that is £270 to bump your expenses... seems a bit 6 of 1 and half a dozen of another to me... spend £240 on ice cream to bump expenses or have that as taxable income.

2nd scenaios is you don't ACTUALLY buy the ice cream, you just say you are... so technically you are lieing?

either scenario seems pointless to me. Don't get me wrong if I get a few bits from the shops and spend £20 and my mindees have used some of it as well then I put the whole £20 through as expenses I don't sit and calculate what was expenses and what was personal, however I will NOT under any circumstances out and out lie about spending lots of £9 to avoid tax.

Would also like to add that I have put my DS's xmas gifts through as expenses, even though they were not bought for the sole purpose of minding, they are actually used during minding... I am not saying people who buy resources in March which WILL be used, cheats, I am saying people who LIE about it are...

ALSO I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE HERE ARE LIARS, SO PLEASE DO NOT TAKE ANY OF MY COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXTS PLEASE. I am merely stating my opinion x

[Monkey1]

Right.... This is exactly why I deleated my post yesterday cause I'm suck of people jumping in the bandwagon , what that lady said about imaginary ice cream van should be taken by a pinch of salt as it was probably ment as a joke. Don't crutisise others for the way they run THEIR business! It's exactly that.... Their business! It pains me that people on here can be so judgemental. We are supposed to be here for support for each other not to rip each other apart!
I buy stuff totally for my mindees .... So therefore it goes through at 100% . I allow so much per month towards washing powder, toilet paper etc that the mindees use. I have my hubby moan at how much I spend, but to be fair I want my mindees to benefit from my setting, parents are happy knowing that a percentage of what they pay be benefits their child.
My children are 19, 16 and 13 so nothing I buy is for them, if in the future I am lucky enough to have grandchildren and they use any of my resources then only a percentage will be put through
What Francine said she was told, was what I was told to, do don't be so judgemental ladies!

[rickysmiths]

I'm sorry but this is a rather pointless exercise.

Why would you spend potentially several thousand pounds on resources that you probably don't need and dare I say buy lots of £9 worth of ice cream (you must have a lot of children) just to save a few hundred pounds on a Tax bill?

It sounds nuts to me!!!

[francinejayne]

I'm sorry but this is a rather pointless exercise.

Why would you spend potentially several thousand pounds on resources that you probably don't need and dare I say buy lots of £9 worth of ice cream (you must have a lot of children) just to save a few hundred pounds on a Tax bill?

It sounds nuts to me!!!

each to their own!!!

[onceinabluemoon]

Would also like to add that I have put my DS's xmas gifts through as expenses, even though they were not bought for the sole purpose of minding, they are actually used during minding...

I think you may find this is fraud honey, you bought the things for your own child not for childminding. You could argue that your carpet is used during minding time so are your pots and pans but you can't put them through expenses either (unless they are used solely for minding, I guess maybe you could then). I'm not some expert accountant or anything but honestly cannot see how you can legitimately put your own child's xmas presses through your books.

Is Mr A reading this, could he shed some light on it?

[EmmaReed84]

Right.... This is exactly why I deleated my post yesterday cause I'm suck of people jumping in the bandwagon , what that lady said about imaginary ice cream van should be taken by a pinch of salt as it was probably ment as a joke. Don't crutisise others for the way they run THEIR business! It's exactly that.... Their business! It pains me that people on here can be so judgemental. We are supposed to be here for support for each other not to rip each other apart!
I buy stuff totally for my mindees .... So therefore it goes through at 100% . I allow so much per month towards washing powder, toilet paper etc that the mindees use. I have my hubby moan at how much I spend, but to be fair I want my mindees to benefit from my setting, parents are happy knowing that a percentage of what they pay be benefits their child.
My children are 19, 16 and 13 so nothing I buy is for them, if in the future I am lucky enough to have grandchildren and they use any of my resources then only a percentage will be put through
What Francine said she was told, was what I was told to, do don't be so judgemental ladies!

I am not being judgemental, how people run their business is up to them. I am commenting about the situation as a whole. not singling out a person, but just having my opinion, to which I am entitled, sorry if I have offended anyone. But MY OPINION is anyone (not a single person, but anyone in general) who makes up expenses under £9 in order to duck under the threshold, is technically lieing.

[EmmaReed84]

I think you may find this is fraud honey, you bought the things for your own child not for childminding. You could argue that your carpet is used during minding time so are your pots and pans but you can't put them through expenses either (unless they are used solely for minding, I guess maybe you could then). I'm not some expert accountant or anything but honestly cannot see how you can legitimately put your own child's xmas presses through your books.

Is Mr A reading this, could he shed some light on it?

Toys that have been bought for my children that I have expressly said are NOT to be used while I am working, that are to be kept out of the way during minding hours have NOT gone through as expenses, however toys that have been bought for my children that join my resources and are available for ANYONE to play with those are the ones that have gone through, so in my eyes they are still used for minding.

Although clarifcation on this would be appriciated...

[Monkey1]

Toys that have been bought for my children that I have expressly said are NOT to be used while I am working, that are to be kept out of the way during minding hours have NOT gone through as expenses, however toys that have been bought for my children that join my resources and are available for ANYONE to play with those are the ones that have gone through, so in my eyes they are still used for minding.

Although clarifcation on this would be appriciated...

My comments were not aimed at you Emma,, if we did keep receipts for every little thing ie stamps , ice cream you would be under a sea of paperwork. Fir everyone's information... I keep my receipts for everything I can.... Joint receipts ... Things are highlighted....
What I was criticising is the way people on here are quick to label others on here and some people really need to wind their neck in where it comes to being judgemental..