Paying an assistant

[mummyof3]

I am about to start with my assistant next week and have set a wage to pay her daily. I am confused how to set this out in my accounts. Will this go down as an expense? Do I need receipts to prove this? My assistant is self employed so am I right in thinking she will pay her own national insurance and tax? I think I might have to think about paying for an accountant I'm feeling way out of my depth with all these numbers and worried I'll make a mistake!!

[loocyloo]

my assistant was self employed and used to invoice me for each month. i then paid her and put it down as an expense.

she was responsible for sorting her own tax & national insurance.

she only worked a couple of afternoons afterschool a week though!

[MrAnchovy]

HMRC usually view people that work under your supervision as employees - a self employed childminder working alongside you would usually mean that you were working as a partnership.

You don't need an accountant just to sort this out though - there are a number of payroll services that specialise in small employers; I'd suggest someone like PAYE for nannies, or you can register as an employer with HMRC yourself and they will provide you with tables and software that will enable you to manage the deductions.

You will need Employers Liability Insurance, check with your exisiting insurer whether they will provide this (and check with the other insurer in this market whether they will be cheaper!)

All the costs are part of your expenses; you will have the payroll paperwork to back this up.

[Mamma4Ya]

Those who are self employed are not paid a wage, only employees are paid wages. Anyone taking on an Assistant really need to speak to HMRC as they may view your assistant as an employee and not self employed and you do not want to find yourself being fined several months down the line for not informing them of taking on an employee.

If your assistant was finding her own mindees (contracted to him/her not you) and working from your home paying you rent, then they may view that in a different light.

[Andrea08]

hi, my assistant is my mum and lucky for me i only pay her her expences such as travel, meals, admissions to,, and coffee at soft play etc

im sure there is a section on assistants on the forum but ive noticed different views esp in different areas,

i would suggest that an assistant should be self employed as a free -lance child care assistant available to work in different settings with a CRB from your setting through ofsted (to cover you also remember insurance with ncma or MM)

agree a payment and get the assistant to invoice you as she is self employed and is charging you her fees, then put the invoice through your books as a normal expenditure,

your then self employed assistant can also attend training offered by your LA through you as nurseries send staff you can send your assistant but sometimes these will be charged... put the charges through your books as its you that want "This" assistant to be trained in a particular area eg first aid etc

good luck and enjoy the extra help xxx

[MrAnchovy]

If you are paying for their insurance, training, CRB check etc. there is no way that someone can be viewed as 'a freelance child-care assistant'.

BabySignTalk has it right.

[loocyloo]

If you are paying for their insurance, training, CRB check etc. there is no way that someone can be viewed as 'a freelance child-care assistant'.

.

when i had an assistant, i DIDN'T pay for insurance for her, i already had it within my insurance. i DIDN'T pay for her training, she attended some training with me and was included as part of my setting, but she could equally have gone along with the local preschool or other childminders. neither did i pay for CRB. Ofsted did, and she also used that CRB to help at local preschool. i know a couple of other childminders also had her to help them on occaison.

my assistant was free to work for anyone she wanted to, and when she came to me, invoiced me for the hours worked.

[MrAnchovy]

Here is HMRC's guidance on whether a person can be self employed.

[mummyof3]

My assistant is an ex-childminder who has all her own qualifications and training and crb. She will only be used on an ad-hoc basis as and when needed so she will invoice me for hours used. She is already registered as self employed as she works for her dads business as a freelance baby products agent so she completes a tax return and pays her own tax and insurance etc.

She will not be taking on children she will be assisting me with the care of the children I already look after. I am the childminder and she is the assistant.

I will ring HMRC for advice because I don't want to be an 'employer' and have all that responsibility. I just wanted someone to help me out with young children so I can get out and about easier!

[MrAnchovy]

Good luck, stress the points that it is ad hoc work that she can turn down on any particular occasion if it doesn't suit her (that makes a big difference and was not clear in your first post), and that she is already self employed (albeit in a totally different job).

Take a note of who you speak to, ideally get confirmation in writing (they may refer you to the Employment Status Team who will create a case number you can quote).

[boxtree7]

is it easier for tax purposes to co childmind rather work with an assistant

[ryanna]

I was told by a very snotty woman at NCMA that they will not give me employers liability insurance for my self employed assistant because I can't give them an Employers reference number. Apparently they now need this number for any assistant who earns £503 a month or more. I told her my assistant is self employed and she told me that if she's earning more than £503 a month surely she should be a registered childminder herself, and then she hung up!

Do NCMA actually have a clue????? Needless to say I'm not renewing my membership with them.

I called MM who said their employers liability insurance is included in the public liability insurance automatically whether or not you even have an assistant, so they don't need to ask specifics.

[sandy64]

hi isnt it funny how different people get a different answer from people i have empolyers insurance from ncma the lady i spoke to was great i said she was with me fulltime and selfemployed she said no problem. i also have spoken in great lengths to hmrc as sarah adviced me thanks and they have reasured sure me that is fine for my assistant to be self employed in her own rights and take a percentage from my earnings. she pays her own national insurance and does her own tax return. and i put her percentage through my books as expenditure

[MrAnchovy]

I was told by a very snotty woman at NCMA that they will not give me employers liability insurance for my self employed assistant because I can't give them an Employers reference number. Apparently they now need this number for any assistant who earns £503 a month or more. I told her my assistant is self employed and she told me that if she's earning more than £503 a month surely she should be a registered childminder herself, and then she hung up!

Do NCMA actually have a clue????? Needless to say I'm not renewing my membership with them.

I called MM who said their employers liability insurance is included in the public liability insurance automatically whether or not you even have an assistant, so they don't need to ask specifics.

If your assistant is self employed, you don't need employers liability insurance because it covers you for your liability as an EMPLOYER, so NCMA have got this bit right when they spoke to ryanna but not when they spoke to sandy.

If you do have an employee but they earn less than £102 per week (or £502 per month), you don't have to register as an employer with HMRC (so you won't have a reference number) - but you STILL NEED EL INSURANCE. You also need a certificate specifically for the EL cover (which must be for at least £5m) which you must display at the place of employment - more details at Business Link.

What you do need to do, whether you are being assisted by an employee or someone self-employed, is to make sure your PUBLIC LIABILITY cover will cover you.

Sandy I hope you have a note of who you spoke to and when at HMRC and exactly what you told them and what they said, because in the circumstances you describe you are generally required to register as a partnership.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

My employers liability covers volunteers too and I am with NCMA

[ryanna]

Arrrrgh!! MM told me I had to have employers liability whether my assistant is employed or self employed!

Who do we go to for the actual legal facts? HMRC for the employment status thing obviously but what about the insurance? I'm so tired of being told different things by different people.

[Mamma4Ya]

I was told by a very snotty woman at NCMA that they will not give me employers liability insurance for my self employed assistant because I can't give them an Employers reference number. Apparently they now need this number for any assistant who earns £503 a month or more. I told her my assistant is self employed and she told me that if she's earning more than £503 a month surely she should be a registered childminder herself, and then she hung up!

Do NCMA actually have a clue????? Needless to say I'm not renewing my membership with them.

I called MM who said their employers liability insurance is included in the public liability insurance automatically whether or not you even have an assistant, so they don't need to ask specifics.

The reason you can not have employers liability for someone is is self employed is the fact they are not your employees.

[Mamma4Ya]

From what I gather from speaking to insurance companies is that you cannot be responsible for someone who is self employed or not your employee therefore employee liability will not cover them.

[ryanna]

The reason you can not have employers liability for someone is is self employed is the fact they are not your employees.

Well that's what I thought but NCMA and MM both told me I still had to have it, but only MM could offer it.

[ryanna]

Right, I found this....

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse40.pdf

Which basically says it doesn't matter whether they are employed or self employed for tax purposes, but there are a set of (similar) criteria to help you decide whether you need ELI or not.

Interestingly it also says you probably don't need it if the people working for you are mainly family. At least that's how I read it, please do correct me if you disagree though!