I have started the new Ofsted online SEF, using Sarah's helpful notes and re-using what was there from last time (6 months ago).
I am finding it a tough job, I think I'd better just start again as it is so hard to fit things from the old sections into the new sections- I keep finding repetitions and finding myself going round in circles saying the same things in different ways.
I have copied it into Word so I can see I am at 9000+ words, I have loads more to say and still haven't started that new section on Outcomes. It is 20 pages in Word (with narrow margins and 12pt text)!

I am concerned this is too long to expect an inspector to read?
What length do you feel is acceptable?
I have loads to say but do not want to risk the inspector skimming it because it is too long.

I have spent hours on it already.

Any thoughts? any one else struggling with it too?

I've not updated the new one yet but since my last inspection 4+yrs ago I've added to it 2/3 times a year. At that last inspection, printed out it was 17 pages and the inspector said then it was too long. So I'm also concerned. Am dreading updating it but will let you know how I get on.

Do we know the recommended amount of words/pages?

I have started the new Ofsted online SEF, using Sarah's helpful notes and re-using what was there from last time (6 months ago). I am finding it a tough job, I think I'd better just start again as it is so hard to fit things from the old sections into the new sections- I keep finding repetitions and finding myself going round in circles saying the same things in different ways. I have copied it into Word so I can see I am at 9000+ words, I have loads more to say and still haven't started that new section on Outcomes. It is 20 pages in Word (with narrow margins and 12pt text)! I am concerned this is too long to expect an inspector to read? What length do you feel is acceptable? I have loads to say but do not want to risk the inspector skimming it because it is too long. I have spent hours on it already. Any thoughts? any one else struggling with it too?

I find I repeat myself within the 7 sections as I feel some of them overlap so the informations relevant in more than one section....

I've repeated myself loads off times. I should really print it out before I update it and read it through, but my Dh is forever moaning at the cost of ink cartridges! Would be hard to update without a hardcopy to flick through. May print it when he's out thursday evening.

I repeat myself as often I feel necessary - I was told once, that if you write something in A, that is relevant in D & G ( for example! ) then you write 'see Box A' in D & G ... but I'd rather write the same thing! I am no good at being concise either! I haven't looked at the new SEF yet ... that's a treat yet to come, :D but I'm going to keep what they put in the boxes, and add/amend as I see necessary!

mine also gets longer every time I do it, as rather than delete things, I put the date ( ie - sept/15 ) and then put any comments that are relevant now - ie - how I've changed something and why, or some training I've done or something! I think that way, the inspector can see what I'm doing/evaluating etc! and if they say its too long ... :huh:

I have started the new Ofsted online SEF, using Sarah's helpful notes and re-using what was there from last time (6 months ago). I am finding it a tough job, I think I'd better just start again as it is so hard to fit things from the old sections into the new sections- I keep finding repetitions and finding myself going round in circles saying the same things in different ways. I have copied it into Word so I can see I am at 9000+ words, I have loads more to say and still haven't started that new section on Outcomes. It is 20 pages in Word (with narrow margins and 12pt text)! I am concerned this is too long to expect an inspector to read? What length do you feel is acceptable? I have loads to say but do not want to risk the inspector skimming it because it is too long. I have spent hours on it already. Any thoughts? any one else struggling with it too?

Lol I thought when I first read your post jeez what she boring on about in her SEF then?! Only to go and do it myself and find in nearly at 7000 words and 18 pages long and I thought I'd only done the beginning!! Maybe I'll call it a day! :-)

Like Loocyloo I was told to cross reference but mines still long.

I am reading this thread and I am horrified!!

I understood that Ofsted was going to 'simplify' the SEF to make it more user friendly?

I hope that....since cms are spending so much of their precious time on the SEF... inspectors are reading it prior to inspection.

I am reading this thread and I am horrified!! I understood that Ofsted was going to 'simplify' the SEF to make it more user friendly? I hope that....since cms are spending so much of their precious time on the SEF... inspectors are reading it prior to inspection.

This is just my opinion but there are still the same amount of sections, still wanting the same information albeit reworded and moved in to different sections so from my point of view it's not simplified at all!!

This is just my opinion but there are still the same amount of sections, still wanting the same information albeit reworded and moved in to different sections so from my point of view it's not simplified at all!!

Thanks for that Mumofone

I did understand from Ofsted the sections were going to be re-adjusted to refer to CIF ...but it does not look like they have 'simplified' it by what I read here....that is such a shame.

For me, with Ofsted re-adjusting sections to refer to the CIF, it is resulting in me typing more to highlight that I am aware of new changes, what they are and how I'm going to implement them into everyday life in my CM environment. Plus some of the 'stuff' I've already mention in earlier paragraphs of my SEF, so I'm repeating myself just so they know I know there are changes. (Phew - I'm exhausted).

When I get the phone call I might mention that my sef is all ready to read. Hint hint - please don't ignore it Mr O.

My last one that I submitted in November just before my inspection was nearly 12,000 words, I got the call and hadn't finished it so I finished it off and then phoned Ofsted to ask them to let my inspector know that I had submitted it - I am convinced that she had read enough in my SEF to be satisfied that she was going to give me Outstanding and I just had to put it into practice on the day.

Not looking forward to re-doing it to fit their new :censored: headings!

the inspector I had here recently said when they print off our SEF it comes in page after page of block print and some details can get a bit muddled. She suggested that it is sort of done with short sentences or bullet points so the facts stand out more. Now whether that was because I do tend to ramble on or it was meant in general i'm not sure. Also I haven't looked at the new SEF so don't know if this would still work

the inspector I had here recently said when they print off our SEF it comes in page after page of block print and some details can get a bit muddled. She suggested that it is sort of done with short sentences or bullet points so the facts stand out more. Now whether that was because I do tend to ramble on or it was meant in general i'm not sure. Also I haven't looked at the new SEF so don't know if this would still work

Yes, I agree- you can not use bold or underlines or italics, and even a return at the end of a paragraph does not insert a space.
So I am using bullet points, double-return paragraph spaces, using dashes to make underlines and using capitals to highlight section headings.
Anything to make it easier for them to read.

I have spent hours too.I Don't think it is easier at all and agree that when u get to section 6 I do feel that I have already covered it. Answers do seem to overlap. I've used Sarah's notes and they were really helpful.I don't see how u can cover all the things she mentions,without spending hours and writing loads.they are'nt short answer questions. I have heard that some inspectors have arrived at settings and said that they haven't had time to read the sef. when I get the call,I'm going to say that I want mine read b4 they arrive at my house. I'm nervous about my inspection and it covers the detail that I may find hard to get across on the day. It's going to be the first question I ask once the inspector is in my house and if she hasn't read it I shall take her thru to my front room where she can!!! I really haven't got time to spend as long as I have,but I have made time,so will be furious if it isn't looked at.

Poppy321 I agree about spendint too long and risking it not being read. Let me know how you get on marching the inspector into your front room.

Ha yeah! I'm actually a bag of nerves and think my management and leadership head was going into overdrive. I will keep cool and remain polite at all times.

I have started the new Ofsted online SEF, using Sarah's helpful notes and re-using what was there from last time (6 months ago). I am finding it a tough job, I think I'd better just start again as it is so hard to fit things from the old sections into the new sections- I keep finding repetitions and finding myself going round in circles saying the same things in different ways. I have copied it into Word so I can see I am at 9000+ words, I have loads more to say and still haven't started that new section on Outcomes. It is 20 pages in Word (with narrow margins and 12pt text)! I am concerned this is too long to expect an inspector to read? What length do you feel is acceptable? I have loads to say but do not want to risk the inspector skimming it because it is too long. I have spent hours on it already. Any thoughts? any one else struggling with it too?


Moggy what happened with your SEF in the end? How many words are you at? I was at around 7k but finding now I've said most of what I need.?

Moggy what happened with your SEF in the end? How many words are you at? I was at around 7k but finding now I've said most of what I need.?

I can't remember now, about 12K maybe. All uploaded and forgotten now for another 6 months!!

Mumofone and Moggy - how do you know how many words you have done? Sorry for the stupid question. Clearly you can see how I'm spending my weekend :(

Mumofone and Moggy - how do you know how many words you have done? Sorry for the stupid question. Clearly you can see how I'm spending my weekend :(

Have you done it in a word document first? If so look in the corner of the doc (you may have to highlight the text first) and it should tell you :-)

That's on Microsoft word 2010 at least :-)

I say it as shouldn't, since I'm capable of worrying about anything, but .................................don't get stressed out over SEF.

I have had 2 graded inspections.

My first inspector said my SEF was the worst she'd ever seen. :p

My second inspector asked if I'd written my latest SEf in collaboration with Mark Thomas and the Monty Python team (and it wasn't even complete.) :laughing:

It doesn't seem to have affected my grade. :thumbsup:

I've got two more sections to go. Think I've said most things already. It's so hard to make sure that you don't just list what you do. I think I have done that a lot. Will see what I can tweak when (if) I read over it.

I Know on my last SEF I said that as a priority for improvement I would buy another shed just for childminding resources so that the children could safely select resources and pack them away. I still haven't done that. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I've got two more sections to go. Think I've said most things already. It's so hard to make sure that you don't just list what you do. I think I have done that a lot. Will see what I can tweak when (if) I read over it. I Know on my last SEF I said that as a priority for improvement I would buy another shed just for childminding resources so that the children could safely select resources and pack them away. I still haven't done that. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Oh goodness, that's all I've really done is list what I do!

I guess the sensible thing is to draw the inspectre's attention to the things they won't necessarily see during a 2-4 hour visit. F'rinstance, he/she/it is not going to follow you to toddler group, library, your CM group, that Disneyland trip (?:p?), etc.


Disclaimer: I make no personal claim to being sensible. :rolleyes:

I guess the sensible thing is to draw the inspectre's attention to the things they won't necessarily see during a 2-4 hour visit. F'rinstance, he/she/it is not going to follow you to toddler group, library, your CM group, that Disneyland trip (?:p?), etc. Disclaimer: I make no personal claim to being sensible. :rolleyes:

I was wondering this, if you claim that you go to toddler groups, cm groups, the library etc etc how do they actually know?!

I was wondering this, if you claim that you go to toddler groups, cm groups, the library etc etc how do they actually know?!

Photographic evidence plus I believe they chat to the children. I'll let you know, soon.

I was wondering this, if you claim that you go to toddler groups, cm groups, the library etc etc how do they actually know?!

In all honesty, they don't know and can't check 99% of what we say we do.

But, as moh says, it's good to providence evidence. You could also include such activities within your parent feedback questionnaires, especially as we're required to tell parents about the nature of activities in order to meet EYFS requirements. :thumbsup:

Photographic evidence plus I believe they chat to the children. I'll let you know, soon.

Thanks MOH :-)

They can surely check our PSED observations for when/how children relate to the outside learning environment and gain Confidence outside our setting's boundaries?....this has not changed for a long time!

What about consulting our CPPD for reflection...a list has to be based on your improvement target ....if any needed!