I have been wearing my Ofsted Big Conversation hat this morning in a meeting with Ofsted.

One of the things that came up for discussion was British values.

Ofsted are aware of some people buying 'British values' packs full of flags, banners, pictures of the royal family etc... this is OK for teaching children about life in Britain if this is your current theme BUT please understand that it has nothing to do with British values.

We need to be clear about British values which are already embedded in practice if you are following the EYFS.

You can find more information about British values from DfE here - Fundamental British Values in the Early Years | From pregnancy to children aged 5 (http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/2015/03/fundamental-british-values-in-the-early-years/) :D

Thanks Sarah. Useful post and link.

I understand it's not just about waving the flag and pictures of the queen. What still is not clear: are we 'allowed' to question and debate these so-called British Values?

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I appreciate the work you're doing on this. But it strikes me that any reasonable 'thinking person' would have a problem with blindly "promoting" these 'values' with children in our settings?

You don't have to be an awkward squad radical to realise that democracy without debate is no form of democracy at all.

Without even considering police and state abuses, 'the rule of law' is a difficult thing to blindly 'promote'. It makes 'bad guys' out of Rosa Parks, The Suffragettes, Nelson Mandela, and a whole host of people who sought and still seek change in society.

The requirement to promote British values is in the Prevent duty - which is law - and it is a requirement in the new inspection framework... I am surprised they haven't updated the Eyfs to include it yet tbh...

You can rail against it all you want privately - but if you fail to comply you might well have a problem at inspection.

You are doing it anyway when you cover PSED and other areas of learning ... it's embedded in good practice :)

I think we need to distinguish between what is the law...and therefore written by govt's Depts and what Ofsted have to do during inspections
Prevent is from the DfE not Ofsted

Ofsted MUST follow the law and reflect the EYFS when inspecting and writing their guidance.

Having said that the govt has really made these very simple 'Universal and human' values sound as if they belong only to the 'British'...no they are shared around the world.

I am not surprised that providers are buying and waving flags to evidence British values....what next...removing nursery rhymes and playing Rule Britannia.
I am appalled that posters are produced for providers to put on the wall...what for?

British values reflect human rights, compassion, freedom of speech and the rule of law....it is the govt that MUST lead by example and I hope Ofsted will raise that against a govt that does not reap what it sows.

Also the EYFS has embedded BV for a very long time...all the DfE had to do was to tweak the EYFS and bring it updated with all the changes instead of allowing a deluge of new guidance from Ofsted and nothing from the DfE itself

I think we need to distinguish between what is the law...and therefore written by govt's Depts and what Ofsted have to do during inspections
Prevent is from the DfE not Ofsted

Ofsted MUST follow the law and reflect the EYFS when inspecting and writing their guidance.

Having said that the govt has really made these very simple 'Universal and human' values sound as if they belong only to the 'British'...no they are shared around the world.

I am not surprised that providers are buying and waving flags to evidence British values....what next...removing nursery rhymes and playing Rule Britannia.
I am appalled that posters are produced for providers to put on the wall...what for?

British values reflect human rights, compassion, freedom of speech and the rule of law....it is the govt that MUST lead by example and I hope Ofsted will raise that against a govt that does not reap what it sows.

Also the EYFS has embedded BV for a very long time...all the DfE had to do was to tweak the EYFS and bring it updated with all the changes instead of allowing a deluge of new guidance from Ofsted and nothing from the DfE itself

British government and institutions following 'British Values' so far this month:-


Tory Party members registering to sabotage the Labour Party leadership election.......................democracy?
British drone assassinates British citizen in Syria in contravention of international law................. the rule of law?
Government proposes strike votes require a qualified majority (bearing in mind the Tory government has a 'mandate' of 24% of those registered to vote)........democracy?
Derbyshire police on suspension for assaulting an 8 year old...................rule of law?
Notts police convicted of grooming and sex with a minor..................rule of law?

the 'Brits' really have got an incredibly poor record when it comes to what we are now calling British values! I wont be flying union jacks , and my oh would probably walk out if I had a happyland queen in the house!!
But the values of respect and consideration for others I do teach , I aim to model , and I always did .. just without the silly label!

I will promote British values through just teaching the children to respect each other, have manners, be polite and care for the environment.


I'm not really that proud to be British atm....What I might not teach them about these British values is that:

Bankers/politicians roll in money were as nurses and care workers work on low pay
Politicians have big pay rises...midwives had 1% payrise
We are all working our assess off to be taxed to death
We have to work longer as pension age gets longer and longer...we'll all be 80 before we can retire
Pensioners have to pay tax on their pensions
The rich get richer, the poor get poorer
Our government only helps countries who we can actually benefit from
Freedom of speech is getting lesser and lesser as we have to think about what we say before we say it in case of upsetting a different race or culture when we don't intend to

:D I'm having a bad day... lol

the 'Brits' really have got an incredibly poor record when it comes to what we are now calling British values! I wont be flying union jacks , and my oh would probably walk out if I had a happyland queen in the house!! But the values of respect and consideration for others I do teach , I aim to model , and I always did .. just without the silly label!

Here here!!! :-)

British government and institutions following 'British Values' so far this month:-


Tory Party members registering to sabotage the Labour Party leadership election.......................democracy?
British drone assassinates British citizen in Syria in contravention of international law................. the rule of law?
Government proposes strike votes require a qualified majority (bearing in mind the Tory government has a 'mandate' of 24% of those registered to vote)........democracy?
Derbyshire police on suspension for assaulting an 8 year old...................rule of law?
Notts police convicted of grooming and sex with a minor..................rule of law?



Well ...that is exactly what I meant Bunyip....thank you for such a good list.
For number 1, 2 and 3 on your list I have done my bit to voice my opinion...petitions may not be taken into account by this govt but it's a small step if we want to be heard

I have just signed the one against the govt trying to change the rules on striking which is being debated tonight!
As for the Tory members registering to sabotage the labour election...they failed in many ways....nasty as it was ....the likes of Toby Young got what they deserved.

Glad to report I was not 'purged' either and my vote got through :thumbsup:

I wonder if Ofsted will purge all the Scottish CMs who voted for independence. After all, not wishing to be part of Britain is hardly "promoting British values" is it?

There are just so many examples of why this high-sounding piece of legislation is completely unworkable at grassroots - that is, if we want to maintain any sort of integrity.

With Black History Month approaching, are we 'allowed' to tell the story of Rosa Parks or not? :huh:

Am I allowed to promote the Suffragettes' campaign as a strong women's movement for democracy (albeit a sham parliamentary democracy) or are they out of fashion for their terrorist methodology? :huh:

It's hard to avoid the obvious statement that, as an example of "the rule of law" it would be difficult to devise a more apt self-parody than the Prevent Strategy. :p

Hi Sarah707, I read in one of your blogs about British Values 'They learn about Christianity as the major religion of the country in which they live'.

Then again, today I've read in two newspapers about a Christian cross being removed from a crematorium to avoid offending other faiths?

The DfE Guidance Nov 2014 for promoting British Values addressed maintained schools.
Nothing in there mentioned Early Years
I think it is very clear what it is we need to promote when it comes to religions and other faiths especially in a multi faiths/cultural society....page 4-5 mentions respects and tolerance and acceptance that other people have different faiths


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/380595/SMSC_Guidance_Maintained_Schools.pdf

4 Children wrote their own document to help the EY sector and this is published on the Foundation Years website...this is their version and neither Ofsted nor DfE wrote the document
In that document it is stressed that we already have BV embedded in the EYFS

Removing a Christian cross is definitely against BV and tolerance/respect values breached....appalling.

Hi Sarah707, I read in one of your blogs about British Values 'They learn about Christianity as the major religion of the country in which they live'.

Then again, today I've read in two newspapers about a Christian cross being removed from a crematorium to avoid offending other faiths?

Could you offer us a link to these stories please?

There are a lot of urban myths and misunderstandings around this sort of thing, not to mention the odd "pc gone mad" story that gets completely made up.

Frinstance: Daily Star gets it wrong again with front page story about 'Muslim loos' | Media | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2010/sep/27/dailystar-pcc)

Actually, forget it, as I found the story. It's in the good ol' Torygraph. Naturally, the headline hides the full facts (but, tbf, they do publish the best crossword.)

The cross is available for funerals on request at Accrington crem, and it strikes me as pretty reasonable to me to be given a choice. Why assume everybody believes in a particular fairy tale or "deeply-held" irrational belief-system or any at all? :huh:

As it happens, the Revd. John Holland, Area Dean Of Accrington is entitled to his cliched opinion that it's "political correctness gone mad" (yeah, right, and clergy who abuse children is of course perfectly sane) but he's failed to mention that crem 'customers' are in any case stuck with the Bible quotation carved into the little altar whether they believe in Jesus, Allah or the Great Prophet Zarquon.

As a matter of fact, a lot of Christians would be "offended" by the crucifix shown in the Torygraph's first picture. My Sunday-School teacher was hauled over hot coals by the Church Committee for "flagrant Papism" and accused of being in league with the Antichrist for placing a crucifix on a table before us little innocents.

Anyway, IME, there isn't a lot else better to do in Accrington than being dead. :rolleyes:

Just got round to getting on the forum (spent hours yesterday and today doing stupid paperwork).

Sorry bunyip, I don't know how to do links but I've got the papers in front of me now. Yes, story was in the Daily Mail and The Sun on Thursday. Not sure why which paper it was in would matter. The cross had been on the wall for 60 years.

Actually, forget it, as I found the story. It's in the good ol' Torygraph. Naturally, the headline hides the full facts (but, tbf, they do publish the best crossword.)

The cross is available for funerals on request at Accrington crem, and it strikes me as pretty reasonable to me to be given a choice. Why assume everybody believes in a particular fairy tale or "deeply-held" irrational belief-system or any at all? :huh:

As it happens, the Revd. John Holland, Area Dean Of Accrington is entitled to his cliched opinion that it's "political correctness gone mad" (yeah, right, and clergy who abuse children is of course perfectly sane) but he's failed to mention that crem 'customers' are in any case stuck with the Bible quotation carved into the little altar whether they believe in Jesus, Allah or the Great Prophet Zarquon.

As a matter of fact, a lot of Christians would be "offended" by the crucifix shown in the Torygraph's first picture. My Sunday-School teacher was hauled over hot coals by the Church Committee for "flagrant Papism" and accused of being in league with the Antichrist for placing a crucifix on a table before us little innocents.

Anyway, IME, there isn't a lot else better to do in Accrington than being dead. :rolleyes:

I have to say it strikes me as pretty reasonable too. I haven't read the article so don't really know what the gist of it was, but think I can guess.

Bunyip, you can promote following the "Rule of Law" and teach them about Suffragettes and Rosa Parks too. Just ask them what they would do if a rule is wrong or not fair. Then you've also covered democracy (people can vote to change the unfair law, also debate about what they would do), respect and tolerance (people are all equal, so you can't prevent someone from joining in just because they're black/a woman/both...), etc.

I wonder if promoting British Values...which the govt is constantly reminding us we MUST do...also applies to the same govt who is ignoring the very values they want us to promote?

As it has been mentioned below we can promote the 'rule of law'...we do in our settings but not sure the govt does when it comes to 'international law'?

Respect and other values we teach without having to be 'spoon fed' by everybody is something this govt ignores all the time.
If we want to be preached by the govt ...let's remind them first...that values apply to ALL in society

Where is the mention of UN Children's Rights in these Fundamental BV?
Where is the removal of EHR in BV?
I haven't heard anyone complain about those not being mentioned.

If the govt had not destroyed the EYFS 2008 by replacing it with Gove's journalistic waffle BV would have been very clear then...the reason people are asking 'how we teach' BV is because they have not understood the topic at all.

The fact that providers are being trained on BV is rather disturbing to say the least when there was no need for this until EYFS 2012 appeared.
The fact that some providers have actually bought posters and flags to 'evidence' BV is also extremely naïve and controversial...so now we have Ofsted running around telling us we do not need to have flags.

Which other countries tell their workforce to promote 'French, Swedish, Finnish etc etc' values

lets be honest about all this and recognise why this has been shoved down our throats....did anyone see BBC Sunday TV yesterday...no sign of BV there?

As said below also ...we can vote to change the unfair law...yes we can...but we should not have 'unfair laws' in the first place

So to end ...we all teach VALUES...they do not belong to the British or the French or anyone else...they are UNIVERSAL HUMAN values....putting British in front has made it all very controversial...and many outside of this forum agree with that.

The Torygraph is no better at this than the Sun or the Star...they are the gutter papers...mostly run by a lunatic who has no respect for BV himself.

in addition to this I have read somewhere we need to teach Christianity...or similar?...can anyone point me to where it says that please because if true I will be the first one to raise as a concern to both DfE and Ofsted?

Bunyip, you can promote following the "Rule of Law" and teach them about Suffragettes and Rosa Parks too. Just ask them what they would do if a rule is wrong or not fair. Then you've also covered democracy (people can vote to change the unfair law, also debate about what they would do), respect and tolerance (people are all equal, so you can't prevent someone from joining in just because they're black/a woman/both...), etc.

The point is that people who achieved any real sort of change have always had to break the law. But the emphasis on BVs is that we teach children to blindly follow the rule of law.

We are still ruled by plenty of the very same people who supported (and still support) the likes of Pinochet and the Apartheid government in South Africa. We are "informed" by daily newspapers which lauded the German Nazi government, backed by institutions such as the British monarchy. Worth remembering that Hitler was "democratically" elected and confirmed by "democratic" plebiscite.

The likelihood of changing an unfair law is infinitesimally small. Take for example, Treason (I can still legally be transported for speaking out against the queen). Let's say I wanted that particularly piece of rubbish removed from the statute book. Do please tell me where I should've put my cross last time round to get that done? :huh:

Or how do I go about ensuring our own regime follows the 'rule of law' by stopping illegal wars, and illegal murder by drones, not to mention revising our law on child-beating to encompass international agreements on the rights of the child? Which party should I vote for? :(

Democracy? You can't even have a 100% peaceful protest in the streets of Manchester without the regime positioning state-sanctioned marksmen on the roofs to subdue the masses. :panic:

I can't recall any childcare issue that has aroused such fierce debate as BV ...at least we are debating and that is good.

I truly cannot reconcile what is happening in the political world with BV and the posturing of the govt....we must do as told but don't follow our example....truly against democracy.

Bunyip what we saw yesterday was truly appalling....snipers at a conference?...walls built to protect the attendees...from what? a crowd demonstrating against cuts?

The protest was a democratic right...ok a few did some spitting which is totally unacceptable and has been condemned...but...the guy who was pelted with a rotten egg should have thought before ...apparently...waving a photo of the Iron Lady in front of peaceful but vocal crowds...some saw red!!

We should have a 'politics' section here to debate more!

I wonder how much outcry there would be if they dropped the "British" from BV? I just find it really snooty and superior sounding, but I bet the media would be screaming "PC gone mad!!" If it were ever changed. The entire thing seems really misguided to me, and a little scary. :S

Edit to add: And I think the removal of the cross in the crematorium sounds quite reasonable. There are many faiths/absence of faith that exist and it would be pretty great if everyone got a choice on what symbols (if any) that they wanted to be present at their (or a loved ones) funeral. *shrugs*