...It's your first inspection? Is this true does anyone know?

No it's not true. There are plenty of people have got it on their first inspection.

The official line did used to be that it was 'unlikely' you'd get outstanding on your first inspection as you simply didn't have enough evidence to show how you worked. There were inspectors who turned up saying "I never give outstanding on a first inspection", but you could always challenge that. Our development officer told us that if you had an inspector who turned up and said that, or said that they didn't give outstanding to childminders, you could refuse to let them inspect you and ask for someone who hadn't prejudged you.

I think that, given the increased length of time between pre-reg and first inspection, many more childminders will get an outstanding first time round.

I agree with Mouse.

I got 'outstanding' on my first inspection. Mind you, if I get one on my 2nd inspection, I'll be taking a long, hard look at my practice to see what I'm doing wrong. AFAICS, it'll mean I'm spending far too little time on giving the children their right to a childhood, and too much on executing a misguided regime policy of 'school-readiness'. :(

I'd go so far as to say that, when I was inspected, Ofsted were excessively cautious over high grades for first-time inspections. My inspector said she'd be here 2 hours, then stayed the whole day. At the end she said she wanted to give an outstanding, but knew it would be queried and probably rejected by her manager if she did it in just the usual 2 hours. She also said she'd had to find fault and mark me down in one area as a matter of course, because she'd never have got an 'outstanding - all areas' past the quality assurance process. It's ridiculous.

I was lucky. The next CM in my village to be inspected was given 'good' and told exactly what you're saying: "we don't give outstanding on a first inspection; you can't possibly have enough experience" She protested that she'd actually re-registered after several years' experience and just a couple of years' break from CMing. Her inspector promptly came up with a different excuse, that it was too soon after the 2012 EYFS revision, so she'd not been doing it long enough to be fully compliant with the new regs. (So why inspect at all?) :huh: In fact, why not just flip a coin?

TBH the whole thing is a bad joke. I try not to bang on about my grade. The 2 main benefits I've had from it are:

I suspect it tends to offset some of the anti-male-CM prejudice I encounter.
It means I can say the inspection process is a farce without it just looking like sour grapes on my part.



I think a lot of settings tend to take an outstanding grade as proof they're great, and a low grade as proof that the inspector is rubbish, IYSWIM. Personally, I think CMs should have more regard for confidence in their own ability; and put the happiness of their mindees and clients above the fulfillment of regime policy. :thumbsup:

I was told that I was working towards outstanding but after only 6 months they can't say that my practice was embedded therefore I got a good. She really scratched around to give me something to improve on, which in the end was that I should have pictures of the babies families displayed to make them feel more secure. I look after 2 babies one of which is my nephew and tbh his family photos are everywhere! And the other family do not want to provide photos as they think it will upset their LO. I was more than happy with a good anyway :-)

I had a similar experience to Bunyip in my first inspection. Mrs O felt like she had to stay forever to justify giving a first timer 'Outstanding'. She said that she knew she would have to really be able to argue the case with her senior (ie someone who had never met me or seen my paperwork). She rolled her eyes as she explained that she had given someone Outstanding last week too and so would really be on their radar.

What does happen if you want to contest against the grade they give you? Do you have to say to mrs of there and then or is there an official procedure you go through?

I know of 2 local childminders who got Outstanding on first inspection - they had both worked previously in Nurseries so weren't new to childcare or EYFS.

I got Outstanding on my first inspection. She only stayed 2.5 hrs and I only had ONE, then 17 month old child on my books. But the inspector was hot on paperwork and I had also done my SEF. At the time (March 2010) I was the only CM in my county to have ever been given Outstanding at their first inspection.
It's not done anything for me. Still very quiet for work in my area and I will not get the same grade again. No way! But it was nice to be able to prove them wrong :thumbsup:

I haven't got outstanding, don't want to be, and absolutely agree with Bunyip, it's because I have little faith in the system due to inspectors alleged reasons for not complying with the same inspection regime that we strive to follow.

I'm not criticising any outstanding childminders btw, I admire and recognize that your grade will have been hard earned, but for the minders that also fight for OS to be told -
QA won't let me
it's your 1st inspection
I have to find something wrong to mark you down on etc etc etc

is making a mockery of the whole grading system imo
You are either outstanding or you're not - with all of us following the same written criteria

Another reason I'm happy with not getting outstanding is the reason given - it was about planning - all my parents and particularly new ones, read my report and say so the only reason you didn't get outstanding is because of the way you did your planning - I can show them what I did do, and what I do now and just roll my eyes :laughing:

I think there is a little confusion regarding Outstanding at 1st inspection.
In the past providers did get that grade at 1st inspection

The grading of any setting has now changed because it is Ofsted Quality Assurance who decide on the grading...hence the reason providers are told to keep the grade awarded by the inspector on the day confidential until the have confirmation QA has approved it.
The criteria has also changed as there must be evidence of teaching, Leadership and Management, outcomes and so forth....it also include use of Pupil Premium which is being questioned.
The criteria is also to be updated when there is a common inspection framework with schools when Ofsted respond to the consultation.

In a recent Nursery World article Nick Hudson announced the change from 7 months to 30 months for 1st inspection...somewhere I have also read that he said they would not award outstanding at 1st inspection...I am trying to pinpoint the article

What is not clear is whether Ofsted intends NOT to award Outstanding after 30 months given that Ofsted has changed that 'to embed good practice'...I would say 30 months is enough to do that but also there are worries that 'bad practice' can embed in that time.

Due to the emphasis on the 'childcare market' many providers work hard to get Outstanding to compete...for some it may mean little but for others it is a recognition of their hard work if the grade reflects their good practice as evidenced on the day.

I think some of my clients and prospective clients are shocked when I tell them, in all honesty, I have every expectation of being downgraded next time around. In fact, I'm kinda hoping for it. I think a lot of 'good' CMs should give themselves a pat on the back for being too good to be graded outstanding :thumbsup:, IYSWIM. I really wish they didn't do grades at all: you're either fit to be a CM or unfit. Just some of my reasons:-


Whilst a lot of inspectors are very good, it's still the luck of the draw and anyone can get a bad one (or a good one having a bad day).
Even the best inspectors are stuck with the crazy target-culture of their managers and the machinations of political pressure and statistics-twisting that goes on.
It's a snapshot of your practice, not a long-term view.
When I was inspected, their was a big emphasis on paperwork, safety, etc. That's 2nd nature to me, coming from a railway background where everything has to be risk-assessed, logged and accountable. Now it's all about teaching. I'm not a teacher, and I think children deserve better than being regimented into school to serve the economy.
I had fewer children at the time, and didn't have Mrs B as assistant. Ofsted seem to think it's better to have one, shining 'star pupil' than to support 3 or more families who want a home-from-home for their lo whilst they have to go to work.
I still only worked 4 days a week, so had at least some chance of booking onto training courses.


I'm afraid too many parents lack any understanding of the inspections process and just take the grade at face value. They certainly have no idea when it comes to my local 'outstanding' school. The same one that left a group of 5 year-olds to organise a football tournament and has tried to have me collect a complete stranger's sick daughter from school. Again, it's like my time on the railways. Our station regularly hit 95%+ of "performance targets". The trains rarely ran on time and most of the ticket windows were closed when needed but, hey, the ticket machines took a lot of money, we issued a lot of penalty fares and the posters were always changed on time. :p

If they insist on me keeping the top grade then I probably don't have room for their child. One might say children just get in the way of running an outstanding practice. I won't be able to fit in the flexible/awkward hours they need. How can I accommodate their needs or break off from 'teaching' the others to go and collect their lo from preschool? Again, you can say the needs of genuine families get in the way of running an outstanding practice. They'll also have to take time off work so I can go and do training courses: and pay higher fees so I can afford to do those courses. My inbox currently contains an invitation to spend somewhere in the region of £200 on a 'PlayWorks' seminar. If I'm honest I have to say I've yet to find a mum who'll gladly lose a day's pay whilst subsidising me to spend a day with a box of Duplo. :( Then they'll have to agree to their lo's opportunity to have fun and a normal childhood being replaced with a series of lessons, as I desperately try to have them 'school-ready': ie. "sit down, shut up, and don't dare hold your pencil that way." They'll also have to agree to do all the 'homework' I'll need to set for them. Childhood gets in the way of running an outstanding practice.

(Edited to avoid the' theft of offence' - I'm in a charitable mood this morning. ;) )

I think some of my clients and prospective clients are shocked when I tell them, in all honesty, I have every expectation of being downgraded next time around. In fact, I'm kinda hoping for it. I think a lot of 'good' CMs should give themselves a pat on the back for being too good to be graded outstanding :thumbsup:, IYSWIM. I really wish they didn't do grades at all: you're either fit to be a CM or unfit. Just some of my reasons:-


Whilst a lot of inspectors are very good, it's still the luck of the draw and anyone can get a bad one (or a good one having a bad day).
Even the best inspectors are stuck with the crazy target-culture of their managers and the machinations of political pressure and statistics-twisting that goes on.
It's a snapshot of your practice, not a long-term view.
When I was inspected, their was a big emphasis on paperwork, safety, etc. That's 2nd nature to me, coming from a railway background where everything has to be risk-assessed, logged and accountable. Now it's all about teaching. I'm not a teacher, and I think children deserve better than being regimented into school to serve the economy.
I had fewer children at the time, and didn't have Mrs B as assistant. Ofsted seem to think it's better to have one, shining 'star pupil' than to support 3 or more families who want a home-from-home for their lo whilst they have to go to work.
I still only worked 4 days a week, so had at least some chance of booking onto training courses.


I'm afraid too many parents lack any understanding of the inspections process and just take the grade at face value. They certainly have no idea when it comes to my local 'outstanding' school. The same one that left a group of 5 year-olds to organise a football tournament and has tried to have me collect a complete stranger's sick daughter from school. Again, it's like my time on the railways. Our station regularly hit 95%+ of "performance targets". The trains rarely ran on time and most of the ticket windows were closed when needed but, hey, the ticket machines took a lot of money, we issued a lot of penalty fares and the posters were always changed on time. :p

If they insist on me keeping the top grade then I probably don't have room for their child. One might say children just get in the way of running an outstanding practice. I won't be able to fit in the flexible/awkward hours they need. How can I accommodate their needs or break off from 'teaching' the others to go and collect their lo from preschool? Again, you can say the needs of genuine families get in the way of running an outstanding practice. They'll also have to take time off work so I can go and do training courses: and pay higher fees so I can afford to do those courses. My inbox currently contains an invitation to spend somewhere in the region of £200 on a 'PlayWorks' seminar. If I'm honest I have to say I've yet to find a mum who'll gladly lose a day's pay whilst subsidising me to spend a day with a box of Duplo. :( Then they'll have to agree to their lo's opportunity to have fun and a normal childhood being replaced with a series of lessons, as I desperately try to have them 'school-ready': ie. "sit down, shut up, and don't dare hold your pencil that way." They'll also have to agree to do all the 'homework' I'll need to set for them. Childhood gets in the way of running an outstanding practice.

(Edited to avoid the' theft of offence' - I'm in a charitable mood this morning. ;) )

All very valid points which I hope you will feed to your local OBC but the OP was whether we can get Outstanding at 1st inspection

All very valid points which I hope you will feed to your local OBC but the OP was whether we can get Outstanding at 1st inspection

I noticed that too.

..............and I wouldn't say my post was any more or less on/off-topic than anyone else's.

The OP said nothing about "recognition" either, but that doesn't stop it being a valid point.

I noticed that too.

..............and I wouldn't say my post was any more or less on/off-topic than anyone else's.

The OP said nothing about "recognition" either, but that doesn't stop it being a valid point.

They are all valid points Bunyip but for anyone who is trying to find out whether outstanding is awarded at 1st inspection they are not giving the answer...somewhere in the Ofsted factsheets the answer will be there in black and white...it's just a question of going through them and finding the statement.

The answer to the question of whether we can get Outstanding at 1st inspection is in Conducting Early Years Inspections updated October 2014
Paragraph 93 says no

Ofsted | Conducting early years inspections (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/conducting-early-years-inspections)

The proof is in the pudding as lots of childminders have received an Outstanding on their first inspection.

The proof is in the pudding as lots of childminders have received an Outstanding on their first inspection.

Recently or pre EYFS 2012?
If that is so then it is worth challenging the Ofsted document that says otherwise
My personal view is after 30 months it should be awarded

Recently or pre EYFS 2012?
If that is so then it is worth challenging the Ofsted document that says otherwise
My personal view is after 30 months it should be awarded

No Idea? Lol...I don't have time to read all the Ofsted waffle

The answer to the question of whether we can get Outstanding at 1st inspection is in Conducting Early Years Inspections updated October 2014
Paragraph 93 says no

Ofsted | Conducting early years inspections (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/conducting-early-years-inspections)


It say most unlikely not no.

Especially now with the changes to the first inspection being changed from within 6 months to 30 months.

I get if a minder had been minding for 5 days and had an inspection they would find it hard to give outstanding.

Minders on the fb page have been reporting back of outstanding on first inspections :D

It say most unlikely not no.

Especially now with the changes to the first inspection being changed from within 6 months to 30 months.

I get if a minder had been minding for 5 days and had an inspection they would find it hard to give outstanding.

Minders on the fb page have been reporting back of outstanding on first inspections :D

I would agree with you that after 5 days it is unlikely to be awarded an outstanding but after 2 and half years a provider should be able to show evidence of outstanding practice
If outstanding has been awarded at 1st inspection then I would suggest Ofsted reword their document...maybe those awarded it were inspected before the 30 months changed in November...only their statistics will tell us in the end and those will not be in the current figures just released

JCrakers...I don't know what we should call the Oftsed fact sheets but they certainly change the rules to suit their needs as and when :thumbsup:

They are all valid points Bunyip but for anyone who is trying to find out whether outstanding is awarded at 1st inspection they are not giving the answer...

Well to be fair, Bunyip did point out that he got OS on his first inspection, so that answered the OP's question - it is possible - or at least, it was possible until the rules of when a new minder could expect a first inspection changed

OP, I apologize for going off tangent, but several people had confirmed that it is indeed possible as it had happened to them or people they know, but as ever, I feel, it depends on the inspector not the rule book, which kind of makes a mockery of the whole thing :panic:

Well to be fair, Bunyip did point out that he got OS on his first inspection, so that answered the OP's question - it is possible - or at least, it was possible until the rules of when a new minder could expect a first inspection changed

OP, I apologize for going off tangent, but several people had confirmed that it is indeed possible as it had happened to them or people they know, but as ever, I feel, it depends on the inspector not the rule book, which kind of makes a mockery of the whole thing :panic:

Yes I have got that message Kiddleywinks...many Cms are saying they did get OS at 1st inspection....I know that too.
My understanding is YES you could get it until very recently...with the recent changes Ofsted has been very confusing with this

It is obvious no one can say for sure and no point really in quoting Facebook to me as I do not go anywhere near that.

Yes I did get Bunyip was awarded OS at his 1st inspection he did not say the year or specify....so not really a reason to be fair or me being unfair?
I did ask if cms were being awarded it pre 2012 or now but got no reply...that should be the clue
I hope the OP has some idea of what to expect or not

As per usual I have noted it and will certainly try to clarify at the next OBC meeting for my own information...anyone who would like to find out if Ofsted are keeping to what they state in their factsheets or not ...or indeed if it is fair....can also do the same and contact their OBC rep and put the question there

Once again thank you all for your very useful replies
Happy Christmas

The answer to the question of whether we can get Outstanding at 1st inspection is in Conducting Early Years Inspections updated October 2014
Paragraph 93 says no

Ofsted | Conducting early years inspections (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/conducting-early-years-inspections)

I've just had a read of that and get the feeling that paragraph 93 has been added without anyone from the Ofsted factsheet team reading paragraph 94 :rolleyes:
I understand that under the old time scale for inspections it would have been more difficult (although not impossible) for a any setting to receive outstanding on a first inspection as they couldn't show progress etc, but you do have to be very concerned if Ofsted don't expect settings to be able to show that after 30 months!!

Post-registration inspections
93. Inspectors carry out inspections of newly registered childminding or childcare within 30 months of registration. These inspections do not differ from any other inspections of the Early Years Foundation Stage.
94. It is unlikely that providers will be able to demonstrate rigorous self-evaluation, a sustained capacity for improvement or the progress children make over time at a post-registration inspection, and this will have an impact on the grades awarded. Unless the provision has had to re-register because of a change in its legal status, it is most unlikely that the provision will achieve an inspection grade of outstanding.

I've just had a read of that and get the feeling that paragraph 93 has been added without anyone from the Ofsted factsheet team reading paragraph 94 :rolleyes:
I understand that under the old time scale for inspections it would have been more difficult (although not impossible) for a any setting to receive outstanding on a first inspection as they couldn't show progress etc, but you do have to be very concerned if Ofsted don't expect settings to be able to show that after 30 months!!

Post-registration inspections
93. Inspectors carry out inspections of newly registered childminding or childcare within 30 months of registration. These inspections do not differ from any other inspections of the Early Years Foundation Stage.
94. It is unlikely that providers will be able to demonstrate rigorous self-evaluation, a sustained capacity for improvement or the progress children make over time at a post-registration inspection, and this will have an impact on the grades awarded. Unless the provision has had to re-register because of a change in its legal status, it is most unlikely that the provision will achieve an inspection grade of outstanding.

Well thank you Mouse for reinforcing what I said below....in different words but exactly the same...makes me wonder why others did not get my meaning???


many will remember that Hudson made a few policy announcements via Nursery World and then the factsheets were updated once again very quickly to reflect the sudden rethink

Unfortunately for me ...and boring as it maybe ...I do read the Ofsted waffle and had read the particular paragraph you mentioned several times.... sometimes it does makes sense when one wants to argue valid points with the inspectorate.

Thanks again.

Post-registration inspections
93. Inspectors carry out inspections of newly registered childminding or childcare within 30 months of registration. These inspections do not differ from any other inspections of the Early Years Foundation Stage.
94. It is unlikely that providers will be able to demonstrate rigorous self-evaluation, a sustained capacity for improvement or the progress children make over time at a post-registration inspection, and this will have an impact on the grades awarded. Unless the provision has had to re-register because of a change in its legal status, it is most unlikely that the provision will achieve an inspection grade of outstanding.[/QUOTE]


So any new childminder who has been in operation for say 24months is unlikely to get an outstanding? Or have I read it wrong?

Yes I have got that message Kiddleywinks...many Cms are saying they did get OS at 1st inspection....I know that too.
My understanding is YES you could get it until very recently...with the recent changes Ofsted has been very confusing with this

It is obvious no one can say for sure and no point really in quoting Facebook to me as I do not go anywhere near that.

Yes I did get Bunyip was awarded OS at his 1st inspection he did not say the year or specify....so not really a reason to be fair or me being unfair?
I did ask if cms were being awarded it pre 2012 or now but got no reply...that should be the clue
I hope the OP has some idea of what to expect or not

As per usual I have noted it and will certainly try to clarify at the next OBC meeting for my own information...anyone who would like to find out if Ofsted are keeping to what they state in their factsheets or not ...or indeed if it is fair....can also do the same and contact their OBC rep and put the question there

Once again thank you all for your very useful replies
Happy Christmas

Apologies Simona if I offended you with my 'to be fair' comment, I say that alot and no offence was meant :thumbsup:

I actually find the conversation rather interesting, and whilst I appreciate you don't personally 'do' facebook, I have just posted a poll on the IC group about whether OS providers were awarded OS before or after EYFS 2012, or indeed, if any have been awarded since the introduction of the 30 month rule
It may make for interesting reading ;)

Well thank you Mouse for reinforcing what I said below....in different words but exactly the same...makes me wonder why others did not get my meaning???


many will remember that Hudson made a few policy announcements via Nursery World and then the factsheets were updated once again very quickly to reflect the sudden rethink

Unfortunately for me ...and boring as it maybe ...I do read the Ofsted waffle and had read the particular paragraph you mentioned several times.... sometimes it does makes sense when one wants to argue valid points with the inspectorate.

Thanks again.

Simona

I know you are very helpful on here along with Sarah....where would we be without you :D
But a lot of us (well...me anyway) don't have time to read through page after page of things that Ofsted, D of E, Nursery World, Pacey etc etc publish. Especially when they change things from week to week. I know everyone on here, including yourself works long hours and when 6pm comes along I'm off......to bed......lol

As long as I keep up to date with regular courses and new info, make sure the kids are happy and developing well and I do all the relevant paperwork then I'm a happy bunny. I'm not into reading all the gumf published.
If I was paid more than the £6.30ph I receive then I might have the incentive to read through every bit. But some of us don't have the time.

I, for one am so grateful for this forum and the info I get from it :thumbsup: and am grateful for people like you and Sarah who do read through it all and relay it back to us.

It seems to me that they hastily revised point 93 following the remarks by Hudson in Nursery world , but failed to notice that this change should also be reflected in point 94!!

And back to the original point , I got outstanding after 5 months , but that was in 2010. A friend got outstanding at 1st inspection just a few months ago. So it can be done...but as is so often the case the inspectors vary so much in their application of the requirements. If they are following the guidance in 94 without applying their own logic then I can see why they may be reluctant to give the grade.

Personally I think getting outstanding suggests no need for improvement where as they want us to continually reflect and show how we can improve so the two don't go together. I personally am not worried about getting outstanding as think the only way to go from there is down. My furst inspection I had an inspecter who was well known to only give satisfactory to newbies hence my grade. My childminding support worker however said I'm working well above this at good with outstanding elements so explain that. They accepted me on enhanced provision which you need a good grade normally for so must be happy. Due ofsted now but off on maternity leave so looking like it will be at least 41/2 years between inspections as overdue now

I also didn't answer the OP question accurately then as I got OS before 2012.

We all go off topic (well I certainly do) and in doing so hopefully raise lots of other valid points. x

Oh dear......... :ohdear:.............. I went on a message board and a riot broke out around me. (Familiar concept.)

1) In an attempt to remain on-topic, the OP asked:-


I was told you can't get outstanding if...It's your first inspection? Is this true does anyone know?

After 30-odd posts, I think we can now reply definitely, categorically, absolutely, er, not sure, dunno, maybe "yes" or maybe "no". :p

But at least we had a good time and raised some valid (if off-topic) points along the way. :clapping:


2) In an almost-on-topic sense, I wonder................ does anybody want a forum where all OPs' threads have to be answered with a straight "yes" or "no" without further (sometimes off-topic) debate? (And can anybody tell me if I put the apostrophe in the right place in that sentence?) :huh:

Please answer "yes" or "no". :rolleyes:

3) In an off-topic-but-somebody-brought-it-up sense....... a maths test for the over-5's.

Posit: A forum-user (for the sake of argument, let's call him "Bunyip") lists on his username header that he has been a "registered childminder since November 2011". At that time, all newly-registered CMs were required to undergo inspection within 7 months of registration (not to mention Ofsted getting in a lather to do them all early before we all went on our summer holidays and they got a backlog before the new regs came in.) Calculate which side of September 2012 the aforementioned Bunyip was inspected.

1 point for a correct answer, and you pass SATs with flying colours. (And remember the inestimable value of education, qualifications, training and the cry for all childcare workers to have a good working knowledge of maths.)

You don't have to be the greatest CM ever born to figure this out.............................

..........but it helps. :cool:

Ha ha, I love this forum for the banter and the fact that many posts do go very off track from the original posts, always interesting reading and usually very helpful too ;-)

Oh dear......... :ohdear:.............. I went on a message board and a riot broke out around me. (Familiar concept.)

1) In an attempt to remain on-topic, the OP asked:-



After 30-odd posts, I think we can now reply definitely, categorically, absolutely, er, not sure, dunno, maybe "yes" or maybe "no". :p

But at least we had a good time and raised some valid (if off-topic) points along the way. :clapping:


2) In an almost-on-topic sense, I wonder................ does anybody want a forum where all OPs' threads have to be answered with a straight "yes" or "no" without further (sometimes off-topic) debate? (And can anybody tell me if I put the apostrophe in the right place in that sentence?) :huh:

Please answer "yes" or "no". :rolleyes:

3) In an off-topic-but-somebody-brought-it-up sense....... a maths test for the over-5's.

Posit: A forum-user (for the sake of argument, let's call him "Bunyip") lists on his username header that he has been a "registered childminder since November 2011". At that time, all newly-registered CMs were required to undergo inspection within 7 months of registration (not to mention Ofsted getting in a lather to do them all early before we all went on our summer holidays and they got a backlog before the new regs came in.) Calculate which side of September 2012 the aforementioned Bunyip was inspected.

1 point for a correct answer, and you pass SATs with flying colours. (And remember the inestimable value of education, qualifications, training and the cry for all childcare workers to have a good working knowledge of maths.)

You don't have to be the greatest CM ever born to figure this out.............................

..........but it helps. :cool:

No Bunyip...no riot broke out just because you went off for a short while
the posts here are relevant as was my question but you chose to add cold sarcasm and rather personal offensive remarks

your point would be very valid if people like me ...who you are clearly referring to in your roundabout sarcastic and offensive response...had the time to check every member's history, their date of joining and then sit here and work out when they could possibly have been 1st inspected?
Sorry I really do not spend that much time here for that type of research....I am surprised to hear you are really a fairly new CM and yet that give you the right to judge people you hardly know ??

Your last line is totally reflective of the tone you set ....the greatest Cm has not been born yet but some strive to offer the best we can against your constant attack on professionalism, qualifications, unhappiness at the fact we get graded in the 1st place, LAs' lack of any support and so forth...it can be quite depressing

Sorry Bunyip you are incredibly arrogant, discriminatory and your comments often offensive for no reason whatsoever and very targeted

Going off topic is something that happens often...it is a reasonable thing to do when you want to...sometimes....expand and use freedom of speech to express views
but only here in this forum members are told off and hands smacked and offensive roundabout remarks posted...it is very sad that it happens and is allowed to happen in the first place

Does it really have any place in this forum? is it really necessary and what examples does it show new cms?
I think we respect your views on everything you post...try to do the same without offending...I remember clearly the upset you caused a CM a while back ...she tried to tell you but you would not have it or accept you had upset her...I have never seen a post from her again
I do not intend to sit here, being bullied and take that rubbish from you and I do not fear whatever action the management may take either.


it is the season of goodwill after all...oh and I will not expect any 'likes' to my comment
I am sure you will come back with your lengthy reply but I would not worry Bunyip

Happy Christmas everyone

Oh dear... :( :rolleyes:

I love this forum because I can come on here for loads of info. If I've got a problem someone will help me out and I can always get an answer to some weird question I've asked.
And I also love this forum because people like Bunyip make it a fun place to come. They lighten the mood (well...obviously not this time) :laughing:

It a place to come where you can freely speak and as well as helping we can also have a bit of a laugh.

But if someone answers wrongly then they shouldn't be shot down with facts and figures....sometimes its taken a bit too seriously :rolleyes:

It's Christmas-time. You sometime get what you don't expect. 'Like'. ;)


Btw, if anyone out there is listening, I still want:-

Snow
World Peace
A weathergirl.


Yes, Santa, I know you're out there; I know you get my letter every year; why am I still waiting...........:mad:

It's Christmas-time. You sometime get what you don't expect. 'Like'. ;)


Btw, if anyone out there is listening, I still want:-

Snow
World Peace
A weathergirl.


Yes, Santa, I know you're out there; I know you get my letter every year; why am I still waiting...........:mad:


Perhaps you haven't made it onto the nice list yet? :p :laughing:

It's Christmas-time. You sometime get what you don't expect. 'Like'. ;)


Btw, if anyone out there is listening, I still want:-

Snow
World Peace
A weathergirl.


Yes, Santa, I know you're out there; I know you get my letter every year; why am I still waiting...........:mad:

Thank you Bunyip...you did not disappoint!!

I had every intention of 'letting this lie' ever since the rather dismissive post #13. However, I've received some off-forum messages (and 1 very supportive PM) asking me to respond to one allegation in particular. I shall save time by not responding to the usual tired, old, misplaced personal comments but (since I've been asked) I shall put the record straight on this point:-


I remember clearly the upset you caused a CM a while back ...she tried to tell you but you would not have it or accept you had upset her...I have never seen a post from her again


The implication seems to be that I hounded some sweet, innocent new CM/member off the site, when nothing could be further from the truth. Unfortunately that predates the available archive of posts so I'm unable to look it up (circa May 2014 IIRC.) In any case, that CM's threads were removed at the time, for reasons which will become clear.

She was a relatively new CM forum member. She raised a question with regard to her practice and a dispute she was in with a client. No need to go over all the details again here. Suffice to say, a considerable number of members took the time, care, and trouble to reply with good advice born of their extensive experience, much wisdom and sound knowledge of the regulations: all in the best interests of the enquirer. In short, she was told, politely, by dozens of members that she was wrong and various posts endeavoured to offer advice on a way out of the hole she'd dug for herself. The matter was somewhat confused by the CM having run a parallel debate over at least 2 threads, seemingly starting a new thread when things were not going her way on the original thread. It was also confusing because her posts were frequently contradictory and the 'facts' seemed to change with every new post of hers. I recall having only minimal input as it went on: the thing was so bizarre I became convinced it was nothing more than a wind-up-thread (but I was wrong in that regard.)

Despite the generous advice of many members, given out of the goodness of their hearts over something like 70+ posts IIRC, the CM 'took offence', purely because it was not what she wanted to hear. She accused members of taking sides against her and that they didn't know what they were talking about. She responded with ever-increasing rudeness. Still, some members with far more patience than I and unquenchable kindness, tried to caution the CM for her own good, whilst her responses grew even more unkind.

Finally, rightly or wrongly, my patience snapped and I waded in to tell it like it is (was?) I stated that I thought she was being selfish, ungrateful and unnecessarily unpleasant to people: totally undeserving of the time and trouble so any members had taken to help her.

I never saw her final response because the whole thread was taken down. It was later explained to me by someone 'in the know' that the CM's Parthian shot before quitting the forum for good was filled with some of the most horrible and nasty invective: toward the very people who'd tried to help, and toward me for highlighting her selfish ingratitude.

I make no apology in this matter, and stand by my decision to defend a host of dedicated members against that one selfish individual who popped up on the forum, acted in an ungrateful and nasty way, only to disappear as suddenly as she appeared. If I or indeed,the dozens of other members upset her then good: she deserved to be upset - in fact she probably needed to be upset for her own good if she was ever going to start to see sense. And I should do the same again if the need arose. This is too good a site for CMs to be shouted down in that way.

How about we all move on now guys, the original thread has been lost and I need more people trying to help me find an answer to my car seat dilemma - see my post from earlier please and HELP ME :thumbsup:

How about we all move on now guys, the original thread has been lost and I need more people trying to help me find an answer to my car seat dilemma - see my post from earlier please and HELP ME :thumbsup:

Oh dear. As a non-driver, I'm in no position to help. :(

Mind you, I loved the James May programme on French cars last night. The old ones where you didn't get a child seat, but could remove all the seating to enjoy a roadside picnic in comfort. :idea:

Im seeing quite a few reports where providers who were "good" are being downgraded to "satisfactory" and "requires improvement" on second inspections, is this a new drive to increase standards across the board? Infact did I read somewhere that the grades are all changing?

Im seeing quite a few reports where providers who were "good" are being downgraded to "satisfactory" and "requires improvement" on second inspections, is this a new drive to increase standards across the board? Infact did I read somewhere that the grades are all changing?

I have seen settings go from good down to a lower grade due to a single issue- like a DBS problem with an adult in the household, or an incident not reported properly, or some other single event/issue that is seen as serious enough to put the whole setting down a grade or two.

Standards have been raised, the say, in this inspection cycle- new emphasis on 'teaching' etc

As for all grades changing- no specific plans have been announced, but the inspection system for EY is being reviewed and they are looking at aligning childcare more with school EYFS class inspections I think.

This doesn't directly answer the OP's question, but some useful information in here re: first inspections.

Link: Changes to Ofsted inspections for new settings | From pregnancy to children aged 5 (http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/2014/11/chnages-to-ofsted-inspections-for-new-settings/)

This doesn't directly answer the OP's question, but some useful information in here re: first inspections.

Link: Changes to Ofsted inspections for new settings | From pregnancy to children aged 5 (http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/2014/11/chnages-to-ofsted-inspections-for-new-settings/)

Ah, that is interesting, I had not linked the 2012 'removal of condition of registration' to the new 30-months until first 'post-registration' inspection.

Ah, that is interesting, I had not linked the 2012 'removal of condition of registration' to the new 30-months until first 'post-registration' inspection.

Linked it...? :confused:

I hadn't even understood it. :D