I have read a few Ofsted inspection reports recently commenting on the messiness of the childminders floors when children are playing.

The reports say that the floors present trip hazards and the childminder should have encouraged / supported the children to tidy up more regularly.

My children sometimes make a dreadful mess when they are really engaged in what they are doing and I am loathe to interrupt them because they are learning so well and really concentrating.

Plus I have a little man who is a box tipper!!

So, I thought as part of my own CPD I'd ask you all what you think.

Is a tidy floor more important that children's deep, concentrated play?

Do you ever focus on the risk of a child tripping so it becomes more important than their learning?

Do you work like the Montessori schools and ask children to tidy up between each activity? How does this work with the little ones?

How would you meet the needs of box tippers who are compelled to put boxes on their heads or throw everything around and move it with their legs if you were constantly worrying about a messy floor?

Any other thoughts guys please?!? :D

One of those reports was mine! It is difficult as I don't have a huge space indoors so looks messy quite quickly. I think you need a balance. Whilst you don't want to interrupt something which is good for their learning you also can't allow the children to just tip boxes everywhere to the point where you can't see much of the floor!

I'm hoping with the nicer weather that we can go outside where there is more space and this hopefully becomes less of an issue.

I will be interested to hear other views on this too as I regularly look at my floor and think 'I'm sure there's a carpet under there somewhere!!' lol
I have a box tipper here too who doesn't want to play with the toys, just to use the box as a hat, car, boat etc

I don't have a lot of space, so do need to make sure the floor stays tidy. Nearly all the records in my accident book are for children tripping on toys, so it can be a real problem!

Our play goes something like this:

X (age 2) gets out the basket of headscarves and tips them all over the floor, B gets some cars off the shelf & C stands at the table playing.

X hunts through for her favourite headscarf & goes off to the dollies, so she can wrap her baby up. She leaves the rest of the scarves tipped out on the floor. I know her well. I know she only tipped the scarves out so she could find her favourite. I ask her if she wants any of the other scarves and she says no, so I say "should we put these away so no one slips on them?" She helps put them in the basket & I leave it near the dollies in case she wants a different one.

Y is 18mths old and enjoys pulling the toys off the shelf. He pulls them all off, then walks away, so when I know he's not going to play with them I put them back & he goes back later & pulls them off again. I do think that if I hadn't put them back he wouldn't be able to pull them off again, so perhaps I'm doing him a favour! He's also a tipper & transporter, so I have plenty of bags, baskets & boxes around that he can use to put anything in. He'll often get an empty bag, fill it with Happyland people, carry it round for a bit, then sit tipping them on the floor & putting them in the bag again. If the toys get spread too far round, I'll push them a bit closer to him. And if he wants to sit in a box or wear a basket on his head, there are plenty of spare ones about, so he doesn't need to tip toys out to get one.

Z is 3yrs old. He is playing with the magnifying glasses at the table. He goes backwards & forwards to the treasure basket, looking for things to investigate. When he's finished with each item, he drops it on the floor, most of them rolling away! I put a basket on the floor next to him & suggest he puts the ones he's finished with in there. It means he can still drop them on the floor when he's finished with them, but in a more controlled way.

If children have definitely finished with one activity, I do encourage them to tidy up before they get anything else out. We also have a big tidy up at snack time and lunchtime, although if the children are in the middle of a game I leave it out for them.

I also use colourful bathmats that I spread out on the floor. The children get to know to play on the mats. They might set out a tea party on a mat, or play with animals on a mat. It means they can spread out, but in a contained way. Having colourful mats down also acts as a marker to the others playing, ie. don't step on a mat because that's where someone's playing! And if I need to, I can move the whole thing, mat & activity, out of the way.

I do sometimes think I spend a lot of time following children round putting stuff away, or telling them to pack one thing away before they get out another, but part of that is necessity....part of that is my need for things to be tidy!

Really??
wow , they would have a field day here then! 3 of mine are currently really into playing shops and birthday parties. one child sits on the sofa and receives every available toy bought from "the shop" as a gift! They are generally buried under them! Tidy up time takes forever but they do help once they have finished. To stop them from do this ,I think , would be detrimental to their imaginations so i would have to argue with ofsted on this. My playroom floor is generally covered in toys. Different ages and stages need different things to play don't they. So to have all 3 engaged solely in duplo for example isn't going to happen here!
I do keep a quiet tidy area, I'm lucky to have 3 rooms to work from. At tidy up time it's a general tidy and I ask whats still being used in play. The rest gets put away.
When I Worked in a playgroup ,. I was in the middle of doing an on the spot obs on a really quite distant child.i was trying to be discreat as always to not make him feel pressured. he was making a house from wooden bricks, taking up quite a large area. it had a garden, was near a park with swings and the path leading up to it etc. I only knew this as the people bricks were talking to the other people bricks. He came over to show me his people And along came a staff member saying " look at this mess lets tidy up a bit " and before I could shout stop, his creation was destroyed. I felt so sad for him. He didn't want to start again....
It wasnt end of the day , or snack time etc, she simply wanted to clean up the areas a bit.
So if you walk into my house and see a bombsite... It may well be just that, or hopefully it's child led play!

we have a two basket rule.

we get two baskets out and if they want another basket then a tidy up is in order. The los understand this quite quickly, it means they have to negotiate and make joint decisions. I do allow things out of a basket (but basket put back IYKWIM) when things are needed. The baskets all have picture and word labels on so it is easy to see what is inside.

we also regularly tidy up as we go along....play flows and i notice when things have been shoved to one side....we tidy that up etc.

we tidy up before a meal and if we are going to do a craft things at the table.


i only have my dining room so i need to be tidy. Los learn very quickly

sorry about rushed post.....cakes in the oven


wibble the baker x

We also have a tipper and a couple of little people that like to be surrounded by baskets/buggies...anything they can get hold of and they are in their own little cave if you can imagine what I'm trying to describe :) The tipper is only 19 months old and I'm hoping he'll grow out of it one day but meanwhile I must admit I do take some of the boxes out of my playroom when he comes :blush: The cave dwellers :cool: well you can't clean what looks like a mess up because to them it isn't!

We do have a 'tidy up time' before snack and lunch which they all help with and I have a sneaky tidy up in the playroom if they are all engaged outside.

What's important is to differentiate between 'untidy' and 'unsafe' ~ safety comes first before learning.

You can make as much mess as you need to here, tip out every box if it is needed. However doorways are not play areas though, and we walk slowly so we minimise risks and don't trip over things. How can kids learn fully if they are not given the chance to combine play sets, to sort and organise all the resources to suit their playing style, to stand on a lego block?
I see it as similar to knives and scissors. They can easily amputate a digit, but do we prevent children from using them? No, we educate, risk assess, and teach the kids to minimise the risks.
If an ofsted inspector tried to say having toys on the floor was harmful to childrens well being, I would be glad to educate him/her as to how to safely wind their neck in!

I don't have a lot of space, so do need to make sure the floor stays tidy. Nearly all the records in my accident book are for children tripping on toys, so it can be a real problem!

Our play goes something like this:

X (age 2) gets out the basket of headscarves and tips them all over the floor, B gets some cars off the shelf & C stands at the table playing.

X hunts through for her favourite headscarf & goes off to the dollies, so she can wrap her baby up. She leaves the rest of the scarves tipped out on the floor. I know her well. I know she only tipped the scarves out so she could find her favourite. I ask her if she wants any of the other scarves and she says no, so I say "should we put these away so no one slips on them?" She helps put them in the basket & I leave it near the dollies in case she wants a different one.

Y is 18mths old and enjoys pulling the toys off the shelf. He pulls them all off, then walks away, so when I know he's not going to play with them I put them back & he goes back later & pulls them off again. I do think that if I hadn't put them back he wouldn't be able to pull them off again, so perhaps I'm doing him a favour! He's also a tipper & transporter, so I have plenty of bags, baskets & boxes around that he can use to put anything in. He'll often get an empty bag, fill it with Happyland people, carry it round for a bit, then sit tipping them on the floor & putting them in the bag again. If the toys get spread too far round, I'll push them a bit closer to him. And if he wants to sit in a box or wear a basket on his head, there are plenty of spare ones about, so he doesn't need to tip toys out to get one.

Z is 3yrs old. He is playing with the magnifying glasses at the table. He goes backwards & forwards to the treasure basket, looking for things to investigate. When he's finished with each item, he drops it on the floor, most of them rolling away! I put a basket on the floor next to him & suggest he puts the ones he's finished with in there. It means he can still drop them on the floor when he's finished with them, but in a more controlled way.

If children have definitely finished with one activity, I do encourage them to tidy up before they get anything else out. We also have a big tidy up at snack time and lunchtime, although if the children are in the middle of a game I leave it out for them.

I also use colourful bathmats that I spread out on the floor. The children get to know to play on the mats. They might set out a tea party on a mat, or play with animals on a mat. It means they can spread out, but in a contained way. Having colourful mats down also acts as a marker to the others playing, ie. don't step on a mat because that's where someone's playing! And if I need to, I can move the whole thing, mat & activity, out of the way.

I do sometimes think I spend a lot of time following children round putting stuff away, or telling them to pack one thing away before they get out another, but part of that is necessity....part of that is my need for things to be tidy!

Good advice and good tips there :thumbsup:

i make little paths between the toys with my feet or with the toy sweeping brush if it's startign to present a tripping hazard. If there is lots out and say the childrne want to dance or do a floor puzzle we then have a tidy away of the blocks etc. Or if all the smallworld has come off the table we pop it all back up but not every second only say before lunch, before dance/story time.

How are they supposed to engage and revisit play if you are constantly tidying up after them :panic:

How are they supposed to engage and revisit play if you are constantly tidying up after them :panic:

This is my main question Juggler - on the one hand we want to promote child initiated deep play... on the other we are nagging at them to tidy up, be safe, put things away...

I know we need a good balance - and all of you thank you for your thoughts and suggestions - but I do worry for those childminders who are new or not confident at arguing their corner with Ofsted.

Any more ideas guys please? Keep them coming :D

When you have limited space I think it's not a case of constantly tidying up after them, it's a case of finding ways to allow them to play so it's safe for everyone. That might mean putting away the bits they're not playing with, or moving their play away from the middle of the room to the side of the room.

For example, I had one after school child who loved building quite intricate structures with bricks. It was a bit of an obsession with him. Every day he had to build, and every day he had to leave it to show his mum when she came to collect him. He would normally start off building in the middle of the room then get very upset if anyone knocked his building, or pinched his bricks (as the little ones would do). Every day I had to remind him to move to an area where he wasn't in the way and where the los couldn't reach. Sometimes he'd build at the table, other times in another room where he was by himself.

I don't think it does children any harm to learn to think about where they're playing. They should be free to spread everything out on the floor if they want to, but help them chose a suitable area of the room to do it in. As with most things, it's a case of finding a compromise. My brick builder could build as much as he wanted, but he had to do it in a suitable place.

For new childminders I think it would be a good idea for them to understand the importance of allowing free play, but at the same time letting them know it is OK to tidy up after children if the toys are becoming a hazard.

I have a sign outside my house which a friend gave to me saying 'Please excuse the noise and mess, the children are making happy memories.'
This was a very appropriate gift for me as my house is usually 'messy' during work hours and immaculate on evenings.
To me, its organised mess, and I would hate to have a spotless clinical house where children are playing. Of course theyre going to make mess, but I do understand the safety issues this raises. I usually let them have, say, an hours play with any toys they like then we put on our 'Tidy Up' CD (just a nursery rhyme CD to see if we can put all the toys away before a certain song ends'
Mrs Ofsted didn't have an issue with how tidy my home was, in fact she said 'Oh it looks like we're having fun in here' when she came in. I usually tidy up as we go, or I will be picking up stray toys at childrens meal times or nap time to keep my house from looking like a total bomb site! The children are at my house to have fun, and yes, learn some skills like tidying up but I wouldnt want them thinking 'oh we must be tidying this up' while doing messy activities, I want them to be enjoying it:laughing:

When I had my local authority grading one of the things I got right was 'activities are not routinely tidied away' . Confused why ofsted would be different as my DO said the categories were taken from EYFS

I do encourage the children to tidy up after themselves but equally it can look like a bomb site quite often before tidy up time as the children will often have more than 1 box out and mix it all up - after all the children are exploring: experimenting and learning and I have no problem with this :-)

Interestingly, I have a friend that has always worked in childcare and when we meet up with the children she gets very funny about her lo playing with more than one type of toy (such as happyland/ cars etc) and often says 'that doesn't go with that, put it back in the box". I have found it quite interesting seeing how we all do things and love to learn from others but I do think mixing toys up and exploring makes for a better learning experience (sorry went off on a bit of a tangent there!).

That said, there have been times when I have thought "this is getting a trip hazard and someone is going to get hurt" and at that point have encouraged tidying away a certain amount of what is out.

Interestingly, I have a friend that has always worked in childcare and when we meet up with the children she gets very funny about her lo playing with more than one type of toy (such as happyland/ cars etc) and often says 'that doesn't go with that, put it back in the box". I have found it quite interesting seeing how we all do things and love to learn from others but I do think mixing toys up and exploring makes for a better learning experience (sorry went off on a bit of a tangent there!).

That said, there have been times when I have thought "this is getting a trip hazard and someone is going to get hurt" and at that point have encouraged tidying away a certain amount of what is out.

Continuing the tangent :o, I went to our LA childminding conference yesterday and one of the keynote speakers, Helen Moylett, was talking about how it is important to let the children use the resources in their own way, so if they want to make a trail of beads all the way through the house, into the sandpit and around the flowerpots, then we should let them - So we can all tell Mrs O she said so. ;)

With the nursery children I used to work with, with my own children and with mindees, I let them investigate and combine resources according to their own ideas - as long as I can see that we could all leave in a hurry if need be, and if not, then like pp I will say that we need to make a clear path for walking.

Thanks for the tip re inspections, Sarah - I may make a point of talking about ^ in front of Mrs O! :thumbsup:

Continuing the tangent :o, I went to our LA childminding conference yesterday and one of the keynote speakers, Helen Moylett, was talking about how it is important to let the children use the resources in their own way, so if they want to make a trail of beads all the way through the house, into the sandpit and around the flowerpots, then we should let them - So we can all tell Mrs O she said so. ;)

With the nursery children I used to work with, with my own children and with mindees, I let them investigate and combine resources according to their own ideas - as long as I can see that we could all leave in a hurry if need be, and if not, then like pp I will say that we need to make a clear path for walking.

Thanks for the tip re inspections, Sarah - I may make a point of talking about ^ in front of Mrs O! :thumbsup:

LOL, i was at a training session yesterday with Katharine Finkill ( who is a friend and colleague of Helen Moylett ) who said pretty much the same thing :D

what happened to continuous provision? my lo are allowed to take toys from one area to another and yes on the way may make a mess I will pick up some things but the children are having fun and learning so would be a shame to spoil it.:)

LOL, i was at a training session yesterday with Katharine Finkill ( who is a friend and colleague of Helen Moylett ) who said pretty much the same thing :D

Lol! :laughing: :thumbsup:

I think we need to lock a certain government minister in a room with these true early years experts and not let her out until she's actually understood what children need to flourish!

I guess I am lucky as we have a through lounge/diner which leads into a large conservatory, but we have LOTS of toys out. I generally tidy a few away as we go and the littlies help to tidy before snack and meals but I dont restrict what or where they play. Guess it will be another thing to argue, oops sorry, mean discuss with Mrs O on my next inspection

This Is an interesting thread.
Ive just recently put all my resources into my dining room and turned it into a playroom and everyday it is a total tip. I did it this way so the children could have access to whatever they wanted but they don't play with one specific thing!! everything gets pulled out and its everywhere.
It was definitely less messy having the resources stored in the garage and bringing out a couple of boxes a day.
I don't think I can win really and would dread Mrs O coming. She would have to climb over everything on the floor lol

I aim for safe walkways through the "mess", keeping the really hard/sharp objects out of the newly sitting babys "fall zone" and otherwise I let them crack on! If toys are being stepped on, I ask the child to move themselves or the toy. One time we had a cushion bus in the hallway. Too late, I realised my fire escape route was blocked...that bus had to make a brief detour and the thread of the play was lost, such a shame, but two lessons learned...don't interfere unless you have to, but redirect if you need to!!

If there is a lot of mess which I thought was a tripping hazard and children were engrossed in play I would probably say to the children that I was going to have a little bit of a tidy up and I would put the main bits that were causing a problem away. I think its ok for children not to be involved in all the tidying up if they are playing, I generally keep on top of things so the mess does not get to a point where children cannot play....

No ideas to add but with two dumpers (one my own son) and a wandering dumper I feel like I'm forever picking up. I'm trying to get the children to help and to contain it but my word, it's hard! I'm going to try and take some of these suggestions on board :)

My wandering dumper won't concentrate on anything for more than 20 seconds. She's like this at home too apparently so that's something else I'm trying to work on.

PS Helen Moylett is my new favourite childcare person (I lurve her) and (shock horror) she may even be replacing Sarah707 in my affections!

My floor generally looks like a small whirlwind arrived, had a quick look round and left again about 1/2 after the children arrive! If I think it is dangerous I will tidy some things away that aren't being played with and before lunch we usually 're-group' the toys, i.e all the books back in the box, cars on the car mat etc. The children like this as they know that toys aren't being put away and will still be out to play with after lunch.
About 15 minutes before the last child/ren leave I get the boxes out and each child helps to put something specific away, usually what they have scattered. It works well for me and the children.
I love mouse's idea of the coloured bath mats, I might try that!

I have all toys in my garage room so the children choose from photographs what they want to play with each day - I used to let each child choose 2 boxes/activities but that meant possibily having 6 toy boxes out - so now they each choose one box and if they want to swap after lunch they have to tidy up everything that goes in the box they want to put away first. I do have quite a large lounge but especially if they have had the treasure basket out there may not be much floor left - the 15 month old is walking a few independent steps at home, but I haven't seen him do it here - maybe he has done a risk assessment and thought better of it!

I agree with wibble.

In my last house all toys were in playroom and children could help themselves. Playroom in this house not as big and soon becomes cluttered. So wooden kitchen, box of books, large trucks, pram out all the time. Other toys are in bedroom and children choose 2 or maybe 3 boxes at a time.

I find this works better as children actually play with what is out, have more space on the floor and very importantly (to me) few toys are stood on and broken.

I really dont mind my house being messy but just before we do lunch time school run everyone helps to tidy up (toys back in boxes etc). Same happens 15mins before end of day

Mmmmmm what can Ofsted say about messy floors look at their Parent Poster :rolleyes:
Loads of good comments given

I've got two girly girls who love playing with the dolls (of which there are many!) and the accessories/clothes that go with them. I very rarely see my carpet when they're playing as they ALL have to come out of the boxes/bags etc they're in. The girls do ask me if this is ok bless 'em (they're both almost 4 years old). I always say that I don't mind them tipping it all out, but they must remember when they've finished, they will also need to put it all away again (and yes when the time comes they moan and take forever, but they do it eventually!) I don't mind a messy floor, but sometimes it does get a bit much, when they also have all the playfood out "for their babies" at the same time. As long as everyone's happy and safe and there's a clear pathway (somewhere among the 'mess') then that's good - let 'em get on with it I say :)

While they are engaged in play I tidy up anything random that they arent playing with that could cause a trip, I do it discreetly and dont say anything , I dont think they even notice

when its snack/story/lunch/time to go out , then its tidy up time , they all help and everything goes away, I encourage and instruct but avoid doing it for them

This is my main question Juggler - on the one hand we want to promote child initiated deep play... on the other we are nagging at them to tidy up, be safe, put things away...

I know we need a good balance - and all of you thank you for your thoughts and suggestions - but I do worry for those childminders who are new or not confident at arguing their corner with Ofsted.

Any more ideas guys please? Keep them coming :D

Im still pre reg but have 5 of my own one who has ADHD. As my son had attention problems he couldn't cope with too many toys around him as he became over stimulated. I found if he had a couple of things out then he could enjoy them and focus. This is something I continued with my later children.

My Ofsted inspector commented on the fact that I encourage the children to tidy up between activities - she was impressed and liked that I did it - I did it because my play space isnt very big and didnt want the children falling over while she was there :D