I had my second Ofsted inspection this week. My last inspection, 3 years ago, resulted in a "good", which I was really happy with. The inspector at the time praised me on my warm, caring interactions with the children, my stimulating environment and my thorough paperwork.

This time round, nothing had changed in that respect. My interactions were still seen to be warm and caring. The children were said to be happy and settled. The environment was still safe and stimulating and my paperwork up to date. However, I ended up with "satisfactory" this time. Why? you may ask. Well, apparently I wasn't focussing enough on "teaching and learning" in my paperwork. I keep learning journeys full of observations and perform summaries of learning at short intervals. The two children I had, aged 18 months and 2 years, really enjoyed the Playdo we played with, but the inspector asked me what I expected them to have learned from that activity. Has the world gone mad?? Or have I completely missed the point of childminding? I feel very strongly that my job is to provide a safe HOME environment in which children have fun, feel cared for and enjoy and thrive. I am not a school or a nursery. I agree that children's development needs to be documented, to make sure they are doing what they should for their age. However, I do not fee it is my job to have written plans or formally assess children. And the parents I work with feel exactly the same. Has anyone else experienced this? I feel very disillusioned about the whole thing.

I am so sorry you did not have a positive inspection :group hug:

Ofsted are focussing on learning experiences and learning outcomes much more in the new inspections since the EYFS 2012 was introduced and this is something which a lot of childminders find very frustrating because they do not feel it is appropriate - just like you are saying in your post.

If you feel you have been judged wrongly when you read through your report then you should lodge a complaint. If you feel that parents won't give a hoot and will use you because you are brilliant at your job then put it behind you and carry on doing what you do.

Hugs xx

I'm sorry you didn't get the grade you deserve, I feel that parents use us as childminders because of the care we give the children not
what Ofsted grade us. I know my parents are not worried about the grade I get and recommend me to others so they are happy with
my service, and I have said this all along that my grade is just that, a grade, and parents are the real judge of the care we give. Sorry
Ofsted but that's my opinion.

This terrifies me! I know lots of parents won't mind what one person thinks after a few hours, but they'll have an opinion when I'm unable to provide funded places because I don't have a good grade! If the op had said something about fine motor skills practice, or a gentle intro to messy play for a child who doesn't really enjoy being dirty, would that have ticked the box? And surely sometimes they play to consolidate a previously developed skill? I'm due my first graded inspection any time now, and would be pleased with a satisfactory in many ways, but don't want to wait the years before I can have a chance to take funded children...

I gave her many things that children learn from Playdo, including fine motor skill development and being creative, not to mention language development. However, as I previously said, these are small children who come to my house to play. They inadvertently learn by playing, especially when there is an adult constantly present who is supporting and talking to them. I do not feel it is necessary, as a childminder, to write a plan in advance on what I hope they will gain from the play experience. A child of 18 months flits from one thing to another anyway, they spend less time on an activity that I would spend writing the plan!

What did you say in answer to the question and what was she expecting.?

Big hugs to you, that really does sound unjust.

I am frustrated for you. Can we stop analysing, judging, assessing blah blah just for a short while ? I know I am good with the children. Full stop. Ok yes we do not want kids sitting watching telly half the day while we drink tea. So hard to be judged for a few hours that then last for a few years.

This is driving me nuts too :mad: had my DO on monday and was also doing playdo with 2yr old and she said the same - what are you going to get out of this activity in relation to where lo is at re dev matters outcomes, she said there always has to be a reason why we do things - she explaiined as each activity needs a lesson plan and a learning outcome which links to the next stage of dev matters so you can show its completed and then next steps are the next one in dm - does that make sense?

my explanation of 'lo enjoys playdo and we are practicing colours' her answer where is that in dev matters and what is the purpose and learning outcome :panic::panic:

personally i think its too much and wonder if any other cm will feel like giving up because of this? im not a teacher

I had my second Ofsted inspection this week. My last inspection, 3 years ago, resulted in a "good", which I was really happy with. The inspector at the time praised me on my warm, caring interactions with the children, my stimulating environment and my thorough paperwork.

This time round, nothing had changed in that respect. My interactions were still seen to be warm and caring. The children were said to be happy and settled. The environment was still safe and stimulating and my paperwork up to date. However, I ended up with "satisfactory" this time. Why? you may ask. Well, apparently I wasn't focussing enough on "teaching and learning" in my paperwork. I keep learning journeys full of observations and perform summaries of learning at short intervals. The two children I had, aged 18 months and 2 years, really enjoyed the Playdo we played with, but the inspector asked me what I expected them to have learned from that activity. Has the world gone mad?? Or have I completely missed the point of childminding? I feel very strongly that my job is to provide a safe HOME environment in which children have fun, feel cared for and enjoy and thrive. I am not a school or a nursery. I agree that children's development needs to be documented, to make sure they are doing what they should for their age. However, I do not fee it is my job to have written plans or formally assess children. And the parents I work with feel exactly the same. Has anyone else experienced this? I feel very disillusioned about the whole thing.

I feel really sorry for you. Thats sad. If that happens to me on my next inspection then i will give up childminding because i completely agree on everything you say.:( Next time I will look properly into what is required before I take on a job as I had no idea all this :censored: was necessary.
Its so hard not to get upset by it all so i send you big hugs xx

What did she say you had to do to get a good? She must have gave you some feedback!!

I really feel for you it's totally crazy

If you are not happy then don't let it go ,you have nothing to lose have you

Hope you are ok

Angel xx

Like Kermit1977 I think the world has gone mad. I am confident in my setting, have a good grade and my parents and mindees seem to love me but this post especially is making me feel very disillusioned about childminding.

I have been childminding for 19 years and I am not due an inspection for a couple of years but I'm not sure how long I will want to carry on if this is the present thinking what will they have come up with by the time I am inspected again!

I agree we need to monitor children's development but when having fun is not a good enough reason to do something, and every activity has to be justified it makes me think this is no longer the job for me.

:group hug: for Kermit1977

I also feel for you, its insane the pressures we are supposed to put on such small children. What is the world coming to that each activity has to have an "outcome". What happens to children that stay at home with mum, are they going to be classed as disadvantaged?

On one hand the government are hinting that we can have more children to make it cheaper for parents, and the next say we have to have detailed educational programmes for each child..

.... on top of the cooking, cleaning, general paperwork, changing nappies, settling upset children, working towards being fully degree educated as it isn't good enough to have common sense! and of course we can all do this cheaply!!!

Hi hope you are feeling a bit better about your grade, as you say its what the parents think about you that matters. I have been childminding for nearly 30 years and have seen many changes over these years. I love my job and caring for the children in my home and have some wonderful relationships with the parents, I am like you not a teacher and my house is not a nursery, I have always said to me the most important part of being a childminder is offering them a loving caring place to come to and which their parents are happy to leave them and go to work happy knowing that their children are happy in. I do have all policies in place and do observations and next steps, and where a child is at the time within their development, but should we really being doing anymore than that. I am not always good at answering the questions that the inspector asks me when put on the spot, does that make me a bad childminder ? I know I am good at my job and parents of the children I have always been happy, and that is all that matters surely. So just remember that you are good or the parents would not leave their precious children with you. Anyway once again I say hope you feel a bit happier today

This is driving me nuts too :mad: had my DO on monday and was also doing playdo with 2yr old and she said the same - what are you going to get out of this activity in relation to where lo is at re dev matters outcomes, she said there always has to be a reason why we do things - she explaiined as each activity needs a lesson plan and a learning outcome which links to the next stage of dev matters so you can show its completed and then next steps are the next one in dm - does that make sense?

my explanation of 'lo enjoys playdo and we are practicing colours' her answer where is that in dev matters and what is the purpose and learning outcome :panic::panic:

personally i think its too much and wonder if any other cm will feel like giving up because of this? im not a teacher

In answer to your question, yes I have felt like giving up. I am a qualified teacher and stopped teaching after having my second child. I do not feel that what is expected in a classroom of 4 year olds is appropriate for a 1 1/2 year old or 2 year old. If I wanted to start planning activities and setting learning objectives again, I would go back into teaching and (I'm not being funny) earn a lot more money! I do this job because I believe strongly that a small baby/ child is better off with a childminder when they cannot be with their parents than in a nursery. I think my opinion on this may change though if these expectations carry on. I used a childminder for my own son when he was a baby and all I wanted for him was that he was cared for in a safe, friendly environment, spending time with someone who plays with him. I did not want him to be 'taught'.

Like Kermit1977 I think the world has gone mad. I am confident in my setting, have a good grade and my parents and mindees seem to love me but this post especially is making me feel very disillusioned about childminding.

I have been childminding for 19 years and I am not due an inspection for a couple of years but I'm not sure how long I will want to carry on if this is the present thinking what will they have come up with by the time I am inspected again!

I agree we need to monitor children's development but when having fun is not a good enough reason to do something, and every activity has to be justified it makes me think this is no longer the job for me.

:group hug: for Kermit1977

i am getting worried ... my last inspection was almost 4 1/2 years ago ( ! ) and sometimes we do something just because that is what the children want to do! like this morning - LOs decided they wanted to go & feed the ducks. so we did. ... yes we talked about ducks/lake/environment/seasons/weather/water, we attempted to count the ducks & sang 3 little ducks, we tore the bread into little bits ( discussing 'little' ) and practised our throwing. but we didn't go to feed the ducks to cover anything in particular, we went because we wanted to!

I've read quite a few Ofsted reports over the last few weeks and have to say that I'm not surprised by this, but by no means do I agree with it. I got Outstanding at my last inspection 3 years ago, but would be amazed it I received this grading again. That's not because my practice has changed for the worse, if anything it is a vast improvement on what I was doing 3 years ago but what I think has changed is that I have become very disillusioned with childminding and childcare in general. Quite frankly what we are expected to do now is just ridiculous and if you have your own family and any sort of life outside of childminding, practically unachievable. It's sad that we no longer feel we can do activities just for enjoyment. This week I took my four mindees round to my parents house, there were four adults there and my four mindees, each child got quality time, playing and interacting with adults and having fun, but this would no longer be considered acceptable as there was no planned learning outcomes. I could tell you exactly what the children got from the experience, but I hadn't taken them round with anything preconceived in mind. Recent training has suggested that I should be doing letter and sounds activities with my under 2 mindees:panic: How ridiculous, surely I should be talking and interacting with them, taking them out to explore and enjoy the big wide world before focusing on letters and sounds. I've got to the point now where it doesn't matter to me what an Ofsted inspector grades me as. I know I work hard, parents know I work hard and they can see their children progressing. Most important of all the children though is that the children enjoy coming to me. Sadly, I can't see me being a childminder much past another 3 years. By this time my youngest will be at the top end of junior school and hopefully I would have finished my degree. If I could play and have fun with the children I'd consider staying (learning along the way I might add), but this doesn't seem to be the priority in childcare anymore.

Cathy x.
Pre-school Play (http://www.pre-schoolplay.blogspot.com)

Oh dear! My last (first) grading was good, which I was happy with but also felt deserved! I would be gutted if they came and as I'm more experienced and doing more with the children they grade me adequate. Childminding sure isn't easy, there are lots of loops to jump through and I think if you have your own children you must get that balance right too. Being with the children, providing safety stimulating activities and outings... Not enough?

I've read quite a few Ofsted reports over the last few weeks and have to say that I'm not surprised by this, but by no means do I agree with it. I got Outstanding at my last inspection 3 years ago, but would be amazed it I received this grading again. That's not because my practice has changed for the worse, if anything it is a vast improvement on what I was doing 3 years ago but what I think has changed is that I have become very disillusioned with childminding and childcare in general. Quite frankly what we are expected to do now is just ridiculous and if you have your own family and any sort of life outside of childminding, practically unachievable. It's sad that we no longer feel we can do activities just for enjoyment. This week I took my four mindees round to my parents house, there were four adults there and my four mindees, each child got quality time, playing and interacting with adults and having fun, but this would no longer be considered acceptable as there was no planned learning outcomes. I could tell you exactly what the children got from the experience, but I hadn't taken them round with anything preconceived in mind. Recent training has suggested that I should be doing letter and sounds activities with my under 2 mindees:panic: How ridiculous, surely I should be talking and interacting with them, taking them out to explore and enjoy the big wide world before focusing on letters and sounds. I've got to the point now where it doesn't matter to me what an Ofsted inspector grades me as. I know I work hard, parents know I work hard and they can see their children progressing. Most important of all the children though is that the children enjoy coming to me. Sadly, I can't see me being a childminder much past another 3 years. By this time my youngest will be at the top end of junior school and hopefully I would have finished my degree. If I could play and have fun with the children I'd consider staying (learning along the way I might add), but this doesn't seem to be the priority in childcare anymore.

Cathy x.
Pre-school Play (http://www.pre-schoolplay.blogspot.com)

I said exactly that to a childminder friend of mine this week. I do as much paperwork as I can and I'm not prepared to do anymore. I know my LJ's will let me down at my next inspection but tbh I don't care. I know the children I care for. I know what stage each of them are at. I know they love coming to me and I know their parents are very happy with the service I provide. I know they are cared for, safe and are having fun. That's all that matters to me. I work an 11hr day 5 days a week and I'm just not prepared to put anymore time in to do anymore paperwork.

Rant over :blush:

xxx

personally i think its too much and wonder if any other cm will feel like giving up because of this? im not a teacher

I had my DO around yesterday afternoon just to see how I'm getting on and where I'm at as I'm due my first graded inspection any day now. As I'm a bit of a perfectionist I'd got myself into a tizz and wayyyy behind trying to do and re-do the learning journeys and paperwork to get it 'just so'.

Do you know what she said to me, she said 'you're not a teacher and you're not paid enough to do all this'.

She's right. What I'm paid for a day, teachers get per hour.

I had my DO around yesterday afternoon just to see how I'm getting on and where I'm at as I'm due my first graded inspection any day now. As I'm a bit of a perfectionist I'd got myself into a tizz and wayyyy behind trying to do and re-do the learning journeys and paperwork to get it 'just so'.

Do you know what she said to me, she said 'you're not a teacher and you're not paid enough to do all this'.

She's right. What I'm paid for a day, teachers get per hour.

Exactly!!! I totally agree, this is what I keep saying. We are not teachers and definitely don't get the pay / holidays of teachers, yet it's seems we are increasingly expected to work as teachers. Even the govt. recognise that we get paid less than the minimum wage but still keep expecting us to do more and more.

It is very unfair but Ofsted favour people who can speak ' academicese' ie playing with playdough strengthens their hand muscles in readiness for writing and holding a pen

It is so narrow minded. Obviously if the children choose to play with an activity it's because it's the right thing for them in their development. They are the best judge of what they need next. Our role (now) is to be able to back it up with the eyfs.
It's so sad that they put knowledge of the eyfs and ability to spout jargon above how the cm interacts with the children,
But generally it looks like we need to have a really good knowledge of each level the child is at - to be able to justify ' learning outcome' at our new inspections.

It is so sad that things have changed so much from what ofsted expects of us. If all these expectations had been there 30 years ago dont think I would still be childminding now.

It is very unfair but Ofsted favour people who can speak ' academicese' ie playing with playdough strengthens their hand muscles in readiness for writing and holding a pen

But from what Kermit1977 says, it doesn't sound like this is enough anymore. It seems like you need specific learning outcomes for each child, not just an understanding of the potential learning contained within each activity.

And what about child-led learning. What if a child decides to take an activity in a different direction from the learning outcomes you have meticulously planned!
I think if you provide children with a loving and caring environment they will learn and develop, even if you don't plan learning outcomes for every activity, however, if there is no loving and caring environment, it doesn't matter how well you plan activities and learning outcomes, the children are not going to learn and develop, or it they are, it will be at a much slower rate.

Cathy
Pre-school Play (http://www.pre-schoolplay.blogspot.com)

But from what Kermit1977 says, it doesn't sound like this is enough anymore. It seems like you need specific learning outcomes for each child, not just an understanding of the potential learning contained within each activity.

And what about child-led learning. What if a child decides to take an activity in a different direction from the learning outcomes you have meticulously planned!
I think if you provide children with a loving and caring environment they will learn and develop, even if you don't plan learning outcomes for every activity, however, if there is no loving and caring environment, it doesn't matter how well you plan activities and learning outcomes, the children are not going to learn and develop, or it they are, it will be at a much slower rate.

Cathy
Pre-school Play (http://www.pre-schoolplay.blogspot.com)

To be fair this is one particular ofsted inspectors view. I myself and a few other have posted posted positive inspections.

Yes inspector asked why I was doing a particular activity but accepted it was because I knew from my observations of the child he enjoyed it.

I certainly dont do hours of paperwork in fact once the door is shut cming is forgotten about. My family become priorites.

There always been discrepancies between inspectors and if the op so wants she csn challenge the grading.

To be fair this is one particular ofsted inspectors view. I myself and a few other have posted posted positive inspections.

Yes inspector asked why I was doing a particular activity but accepted it was because I knew from my observations of the child he enjoyed it.

I certainly dont do hours of paperwork in fact once the door is shut cming is forgotten about. My family become priorites.

There always been discrepancies between inspectors and if the op so wants she csn challenge the grading.

I think you have hit the nail on the head! There seem to be major discrepancies. Someone I know had not done the legally required course within the 6 month period of starting and was still given satisfactory as she said she could not afford it yet!

I wander what someone does who minds say a 3 year old, a 1 1/2 year old and a baby of 6 months. Do they plan activities for each child? Which child do you spend time with to ensure the learning objectives are being met? Or maybe you flit back and forth with your observation paper and pen to make sure you catch it all? would that be classed as spending quality time with a child? And how many activities in a day does ofsted want us to plan? Is a child allowed any unplanned time at all, when they can just play because they want to?

Yes, I could challenge the grade, but honestly what is the point. If that is a requirement, then she was right, I am not doing it. And I don't agree that it needs to be done!

My DO said that the kind of learning we are talking about here is meant for the children who are over 3yrs old.

i am so confused reading all of this. I thought they said we should be doing less paperwork, but it sounds like we need to do a lot more. I have never done much written planning - my planning was from the next steps, and fairly spontaneous, and child led, and weather led etc as I expect it is for most of us. I personally feel I am capable to do my job, but I am not able to commit even more time to do the sort of paperwork that a teacher does.
It seems to me that they are judging childminders a lot more harshly than nurseries.
If the latest possible changes happen where they expect us to have even more children in the EYFS range I can't see how we can all cope with the extra paperwork required as there just wouldn't be enough time. I love my job, but it is a job, I have a life outside of my job.

In a day a child may do 20 activities - surely we don't have to have a written learning outcome planned for each of those activities. One of mine today has done drawing, played with cars, trains, looked at books, looked at a lego and book set his parents asked me to do with him,shape sorting and many other things, and been outside, had a sleep, nappy changes, 2 snacks and lunch as well as 2 school runs. I can't write a plan for all of that.

In a day a child may do 20 activities - surely we don't have to have a written learning outcome planned for each of those activities. One of mine today has done drawing, played with cars, trains, looked at books, looked at a lego and book set his parents asked me to do with him,shape sorting and many other things, and been outside, had a sleep, nappy changes, 2 snacks and lunch as well as 2 school runs. I can't write a plan for all of that.

Kermit, I am sorry for your result, and for not saying that in my earlier post, I got a bit selfish there, sorry. I hope you are a bit comforted by these posts, there are lots of us who are confused and I can only imagine how frustrated you must be. Hugs.

I do wonder whether those of us being inspected earlier in this new EYFS are going to suffer from being the guinea-pigs....I couldn't agree more with Vals.

Nurserys and schools put out a range of activities for any of the their children to do, not every child will need the same planning, but they won't be excluded just because the learning outcome doesn't fit their current needs!

Surely so long as we plan and try to execute at least one activity in a session/week with a specific aim, then the rest can be childrens choice? Sure we can guide and suggest and try to lead, but as the saying goes, you can less the horse to the water but you can't make out drink!!

To be fair this is one particular ofsted inspectors view. I myself and a few other have posted posted positive inspections.

Yes inspector asked why I was doing a particular activity but accepted it was because I knew from my observations of the child he enjoyed it.

I certainly dont do hours of paperwork in fact once the door is shut cming is forgotten about. My family become priorites.

There always been discrepancies between inspectors and if the op so wants she csn challenge the grading.


That's good to hear FussyElmo. Fingers crossed I get a reasonable inspector:)

Cathy x.

I don't think it is a question of paperwork.
From what people have said it's the inspector talking to you while the children do an activity that maybe they chose.(ie child led)
If there is an outcome that is not on the list they are hardly going to penalise us! They know the eyfs list is not exhaustive! Like Sarah says! It is a guide and there can be similar or parallel outcomes that aren't spelled out.
As long as you talk about what the child is doing in the context of where they are at and with a clear knowledge of the next steps (on the development matters list or not) I don't see how they can fault you.
Like I said... Sadly it seems like they want you to use the right jargon.