I have emailed Ofsted about the new criteria - mainly that continuity of care is no longer mentioned in the revised EYFS - and thought I'd let you know their response.

The emails below are from 2 different people - this one was received on 23/4/12

Thank you for your query.

You ask first if you must still go through a variation process if you wish to care for more than one baby. You will still have to do so up until September 2012 when the new EYFS is implemented. After this date, you may decide yourself if you meet the circumstances set out in the EYFS that allows you to have more than one baby. Ofsted will not set any conditions relating to the numbers and ages of children you may care for, and you do not need to let us know where you care for more than one baby.

You also ask about the removal of the criteria for continuity of care. I can confirm the revised EYFS does not explicitly mention continuity of care and would appear to prevent you having more children if a parent of a child already with you wanted to extend their hours. The EYFS is not Ofsted's document. It is produced by the Department for Education and you may wish to check your understanding with colleagues there. We will also follow it up on your behalf and produce any additional guidance when we update our current factsheet on numbers and ages of children that childminders may have.

I hope this response is helpful.

and this one today

Thank you for your further correspondence.

From 1 September 2012, as per Statutory requirements childminders may care for a maximum of six children under the age of eight. Of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children, and there should only be one child under the age of one. Any care provided for older children must not adversely affect the care of children receiving early years provision. (3.39)

From 1 September 2012 providers will not have to seek variations to their numbers. Providers may decide for themselves if they meet the circumstances set out in the EYFS that allow them to have more than one baby. Ofsted will not set any conditions relating to the numbers and ages of children providers may care for, and they do not need to let us know where they care for more than one baby. They will be responsible for self-regulating their provision within the requirements of the new EYFS. New certificates will be issued to reflect this and generally no conditions will apply. From the information available at present any issues regarding continuity of care would need to be addressed within the requirements of the EYFS, (see above). If there are any exceptions or flexibility in the requirements, this has not yet been made known to us.

Ofsted will be briefing local authorities during June on the changes to the EYFS and you may find it helpful to raise your queries with them at this time as their role is to advise providers such as yourself. From the end of June/ early July we will publish key documents on our website so providers can read them and prepare. Ofsted will be following up enquiries in order to produce additional guidance to update current factsheets. I am sorry that I cannot give you an exact date when these will be available as the EYFS is not Ofsted's document and information is dependent on any developments resulting from DfE activity. I cannot name a direct contact person at the DfE but I hope that any response you receive to your independent enquiries is helpful.

I hope this is helpful
Best wishes

Both responses come from Ofsted's Quality Assurance National Team.

I have also emailed DfE but had no response yet (can take up to 15 working days according to their website).

Miffy xx

:rolleyes: thanks for sharing miffy, so from sept I 'could' have 3 little babies!(won't but possible for 2)

will watch this thread to see what they say!

So still as clear as mud :rolleyes:

With regard to continuity of care variations there been Ofsted inspectors and employees telling childminders that as of Sept they will not need to apply for variations for continuity of care as we can decide ourselves whether or not we fit the criteria. Other cms have been told we will still have to apply in the usual way.

It would perhaps be helpful if the whole of Ofsted could give out the same information :thumbsup:

Thanks Miffy - though Im non the wiser!
particularly like the bit where they say its not Ofsteds document - ask the DofE. If ofsted arent sure then G help the rest of us!!

The wording 'sibling babies' is also causing a lot of concern.

Do they mean baby twins... siblings who are babies?

Or do they mean the baby brother or sister (sibling) of a child already in our care?

Because if it's the second one then we will be ok to welcome new babies as they are a sibling of an older one...

If you talk to them again Miffy maybe you could raise it!!! :D

I have a 'continuity of care' variation just now. If I understand the following - I can confirm the revised EYFS does not explicitly mention continuity of care and would appear to prevent you having more children if a parent of a child already with you wanted to extend their hours. then will I need to give this child notice?
many minders thought the new eyfs meant that up to 6 could be early years - however it states that no more than 3 can be young children and we must decide ourselves as long as we stay within this! No flexibility whatsoever then?

I have a 'continuity of care' variation just now. If I understand the following - I can confirm the revised EYFS does not explicitly mention continuity of care and would appear to prevent you having more children if a parent of a child already with you wanted to extend their hours. then will I need to give this child notice?
many minders thought the new eyfs meant that up to 6 could be early years - however it states that no more than 3 can be young children and we must decide ourselves as long as we stay within this! No flexibility whatsoever then?

This is what concerns me because I have a little boy and he will increase his days again and they want me to have little sister so I will either not be able to have them or I will have to give notice to other children to make room for them.

Thanks Miffy - though Im non the wiser!
particularly like the bit where they say its not Ofsteds document - ask the DofE. If ofsted arent sure then G help the rest of us!!

This is ridiculous! If Ofsted don't under the EYFS how can they possibly inspect us against it?!

It concerns me that no variations will be possible and those of us who already have one may not be able to use it in September!

Confused.com:blush: hopefully will become clearer in Sptember

Now I'm really confused. I have a variation for 4 children for 3 days
-tues 1x 10 month old, 1x 12 month old 2x 18month old
-Wed 1x 12 month old, 2 x 18month old, 1 x 2 year old
-thurs 1x 10 month old, 2 x 18month old, 1 x 2 year old

will this still stand or will i have to give notice to a parent:panic:

Confused.com:blush: hopefully will become clearer in Sptember

well I hope it becomes alot clearer soon because if we have existing variations in place based on a continuity of care exception then from Sept we may not be able to provide that care any longer, its may nearly - I think parents are going to want to be given as much notice as possible if they have to find alternative care.

OMG!!!!! Whatever next!!!! I am supposed to be having sibling of mindee in Sept. I have had a variation for 4 under 5's before. What do I do now? They really are trying to make it hard for us childminders. Now I know why there are so many unregistered childminders around. :rolleyes:

I shall be raising this question when I (and others who have had the pilot inspections) meet with Ofsted on 1st May.

I have the agenda for the day

12:45 - 1:30 What needs to change following the pilot?

Well I think I can raise the question then - I had 4 uder 5 present during the inspection -so Will I STILL be able to have the same children when I have my 'proper' inspection in 2013?

In answer to their question -what needs to change? a) guidance on what is meant by sibling babies b) what if a parent using our service needs more hours and we don't have availability?

And most interestinly

c) does the wording mean we could actually go up to six under 5's if we had no other children in our care - as it says in 3.40 If childminders can demonstrate to parents and or carers and inspectors that individual needs of all children are being met,then expections to usual ratio's can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies - so in extreme all 3 current children have a sibling or one has a set of triplet siblings

or on same theme in 3.40 it says about 4 year olds in school - and then says But in all circumstances, the total number of children under 8 being cared for must not exceed six.

Taken literally - if we can prove we are meeting all children's needs we can have up to 6 children (and could be all under 5!)


But on the other hand - how are we supposed to demonstrate to inspectors that we are meeting all individual needs - if there is no variation process!

Penny :)

If the guidance is yet to be written by Ofsted (being done now) how can we expect the help team to be able to answer these questions

I say wait for another month and it will all be in writing under their new guidance

If the guidance is yet to be written by Ofsted (being done now) how can we expect the help team to be able to answer these questions

I say wait for another month and it will all be in writing under their new guidance

I agree with that, but the problem is inspectors and the people answering the phone ARE giving out information on what is going to happen in Sept, or what they think is going to happen :rolleyes:

The Email I had from Ofsted today was a little confusing.

They agreed there was no mention of continuity of care and said that as the EYFS was not an Ofsted document that any queries should be raised with my LA. They then said however that it would be Ofsted briefing the LAs! Not sure what they're going to brief them on if they don't know the answer.

It also said that Ofsted would publish extra documents to help us prepare for changes in July.

So I'm still none the wiser although it doesn't look good for having 4 under 5 at all. :( I realise we may have to wait for an answer but I am concerned for those parents who may be expecting care in September and are potentially going to be let down at short notice :(

what about when you have an assistant? My registration specifies I can have more than 6 under 8 with an assistant - does this remain the same with thenew EYFS??

What a nightmare. I am going to need a continuity of care variation when one parent goes to uni in September. Nevermind the one I already have in place. :panic: :censored:

Out of interest, does anyone know how the current EYFS document words it? Does it specifically mention variations for continuity of care? I've had a quick flick through, but can't find anything. I don't mean the Ofsted fact sheet, I mean the actual section in the current framework that corresponds to 3.40 in the new one?

i am just getting more confused! think ofsted are too!

i currently have a variation for 4 LO for 3 days a week... am i going to have to tell one mum that she can't go to college anymore? or other mums that i can't cover their working hours? there is no alternative care for any of my children :(

to be honest, if i COULD have 5 under 5 occaisonally, that would make one of my mums* life ALOT simpler, and i wouldn't have a problem providing this care! and if i could do it without endless discussion with ofsted that would great!

*every 3 months mum has to attend training on a day that i already have 4 LO. dad has to take the day off to care for LO.

Out of interest, does anyone know how the current EYFS document words it? Does it specifically mention variations for continuity of care? I've had a quick flick through, but can't find anything. I don't mean the Ofsted fact sheet, I mean the actual section in the current framework that corresponds to 3.40 in the new one?

Any continuity of care or variation reference is conspicuous by its absence in the revised EYFS.

This is why Miffy and a few others are following it up with Ofsted.

However it appears that Ofsted don't know the answer either... :D

Any continuity of care or variation reference is conspicuous by its absence in the revised EYFS.

This is why Miffy and a few others are following it up with Ofsted.

However it appears that Ofsted don't know the answer either... :D

Yes, that's why I wondered what it said in the 2008 version. Was it specific in that, or was it as vague as this one is now? ie. did we have the same worries at the time, or was it clear from the beginning?

I'm hoping it's something they haven't thought through properly and will amend once it's been highlighted as a problem...always the optimist me :laughing:

Yes, that's why I wondered what it said in the 2008 version. Was it specific in that, or was it as vague as this one is now? ie. did we have the same worries at the time, or was it clear from the beginning?

I'm hoping it's something they haven't thought through properly and will amend once it's been highlighted as a problem...always the optimist me :laughing:

Continuity of care is specifically mentioned in the 2008 version of EYFS - it's o page 51 (part 14).

Miffy xx

Yes, that's why I wondered what it said in the 2008 version. Was it specific in that, or was it as vague as this one is now? ie. did we have the same worries at the time, or was it clear from the beginning?

I'm hoping it's something they haven't thought through properly and will amend once it's been highlighted as a problem...always the optimist me :laughing:

Part of the worry is that they made a rising 5s error in the new Welsh standards and it took nearly a year to get it sorted... we don't want that to happen here :panic:

We need to keep the pressure on so they do something about it sooner rather than later.

xx

I emailed my local council about this and was advised the following by my contact there:

Much of the content of your email is in the hands of Ofsted and xx will be attending a meeting in London in June when we expect to hear about Ofsted's revised regulation and inspection docs and their expectations of how the Revised EYFS will best be delivered to achieve high quality. We are already aware of the issues you have raised, and as often is the case, wording can be easily misinterpreted or people can interpret it differently from each other and agree clarification is needed


Therefore its likely that they need to clarify the new inspection docs after the meeting xx is attending in order to deliver it to the local councils in June. I dare say is xx is raising it as a point of reference they may already have the answers for the local authorities in June - but if they don't then my local authority will certainly be addressing it with them. I'm sure we'll get clarification as soon as the left hand knows what the right hand is doing. Hopefully in enough time to ensure parents are not completely put in the poo!

Part of the worry is that they made a rising 5s error in the new Welsh standards and it took nearly a year to get it sorted... we don't want that to happen here :panic:

We need to keep the pressure on so they do something about it sooner rather than later.

xx

Thank you Miffy, that's what I was looking for.

I agree Sarah, it needs sorting out as a matter of urgency, not least because I have variations for 4 most days and have no intention of getting rid of anyone!

I have rattled off an email to my LA. I suppose if enough people are bringing it up it will have to be looked at...fingers crossed :thumbsup:

Well [I] phoned ofsted today as i need a variation for Friday (child with me two days a week and parent wants me to have him 3 days this week, on the extra day i will have 3 under 5 already) Ofsted said I know longer have to let them know/ask for a variation and I was to do a risk assessment and if i feel I am able to do it etc etc that is fine.I also said it was not worded for continuity of care in the document and she said it should of been where the sibling bit is!. So all in all I can have 4 under 5's.