Next Q... Ofsted

[Pipsqueak]

I know what we all generally think of Ofsted but

Do you think that Ofsted has TOO much power?
Do you think they don't understand childminders?
Do you think that they don't know their own rules and regulations and/or that they move the goalposts to suit themselves?

Considering when Ofsted have to investigate a complaint.. do you think its wrong or right that they can force the immediate closure of a childminder and without telling them the nature of the complaint for instance


We have all experienced the inaccuracies and inconsistencies with inspections. We all know someone who has been put through hell with Ofsted?

We all know and I would think most of us ARE in favour of regulation but what changes do you think are needed/necessary in respect of Ofsted.

[nikki thomson]

Ok here goes, obviously providing childcare for someone else's children we have to be regulated/inspected, it happens in most fields/walks of life and no one likes having someone tell them there not doing things right etc but when some cm arn't inspected for 4/5 yrs how on earth do they really know what is going On?.
Also and I know people won't agree with this but these days there are many different settings which work completely different and do I think they should be inspected differently for example: you have a cm who has an assistant, house is set up like a nursery, has a dedicated playroom has quite a few children on there books and it is run pretty much like a nursery but in a home setting now that is very different from a cm like me who has one full time lo, she's like a part of the family we do lots of activities which mum would do if she didn't work like swimming every week, tumble tots etc I spend most of the time out the house with her, that's very different to the first example and so I think it's very difficult to be judged the same because we're not if that makes sense.
It's almost like ofsted penalise you if you only have one but I only want one, when my dh is on leave and it's school hols we go out as a family and lo comes with us it's just like having 4 children but ofsted don't get it.
I do think they move the goal posts and I also think you could have 5 different inspectors in your home and the outcome would be different each time which to me doesn't seem right?, ramble over. X

[Pipsqueak]

Great reply Nikki - whether anyone agrees with it or not! You have obviously thought about it:)

That is exactly what I want - how you think Ofsted SHOULD operate - how you think they SHOULDN'T operate etc

Who regulates Ofsted ?

[Kiddleywinks]

Could part of the problem be that for the majority of the time an inspector is visiting schools and nursery settings and then they get to a childminder setting and as such they're trying to fit us in with the system rather than allowing the system the flexibility to fit around us.... apologies if that doesn't sound right, I know what I mean lol

I know that logistically it's not going to happen, but if there were dedicated 'childminder' only inspectors that understand the differences, like the ones explained in Nikki's post between differing childminder settings, better consistency could be gained.

I'm new, it's late, I may be talking poo, but it makes sense to me :rolleyes:

[Kiddleywinks]

I know what we all generally think of Ofsted but

Do you think that Ofsted has TOO much power? Not in a position to judge this one myself, but looking at other posts I get the feeling that there are some aspects where they are the hand of god type thing
Do you think they don't understand childminders? No
Do you think that they don't know their own rules and regulations and/or that they move the goalposts to suit themselves?As with ALL large institutions the left hand rarely knows what the right hand is doing, and a lot of the rules and regulations seem to be very 'open to interpretation' which of course this will vary from one person to an other. Better training for the advisers can only help

Considering when Ofsted have to invhestigate a complaint.. do you think its wrong or right that they can force the immediate closure of a childminder and without telling them the nature of the complaint for instance
Hard one, if there is a belief children are at risk then of course they have to act swiftly - remember the recent case outside the school witnessed by a minder and staff of the school? To do so without informing of the nature of the complaint is outrageous

We have all experienced the inaccuracies and inconsistencies with inspections. We all know someone who has been put through hell with Ofsted?

We all know and I would think most of us ARE in favour of regulation but what changes do you think are needed/necessary in respect of Ofsted.Can I get back to you on that one lol

[PixiePetal]

I don't think Ofsted understand CM, we are not nurseries. Some inspectors just don't get it - you only have to read some of the comments on the forum to see their expectations are way off mark. Goalpost moving!

I would love it to be like it was in the 'old days' of pre Ofsted inspections - I was marked on me, how I was with the children and keeping them safe, well and happy. All the paperwork now just bogs me down.

I have been on the wrong end of a suspension (and cleared) It was the worst time of my life, I was in a worse state than when my dad died :( Actually Ofsted were quite good apart from not being able to tell me anything about what I was accused of. I know they had a job to do and children come first but not at the expense of my sanity. This is more of where I feel let down by lack of support from NCMA rather than Ofsted though :(:( If it wasn't for the forum I don't know where I would be now.

There must be a way to simplify things, remembering that we are usually lone workers and need support and guidance relevant to our situation. One size does not fit all!

It's late and I am probably talking poo too :), might be back with more to add tomorrow :D

[ajs]

It's funny talking to other minders who had complaints made and how badly they were treated by ofsted, I had the opposite ofsted were good with me, very apologetic that they had t come out again, supporting me and encouraging me in trying to get me to counter complain so they could investigate the complainant. I never did but do regret it now.
It was my own DO who I would like to see removed from her job ( useless waste of money she is) wouldn't know the truth if it bit her on her backside

[Roseolivia]

I know what we all generally think of Ofsted but

Do you think that Ofsted has TOO much power?Yes sometimes, i do believe we should be inspected to make sure we comply with the law.
Do you think they don't understand childminders?Depends on the different inspectors and the different telephone people you speak to.
Do you think that they don't know their own rules and regulations and/or that they move the goalposts to suit themselves?Yes, they all need to be saying the same thing.

Considering when Ofsted have to investigate a complaint.. do you think its wrong or right that they can force the immediate closure of a childminder and without telling them the nature of the complaint for instanceFor the safety of the children if it's a serious allegation they should close a minder down but i think it's wron that we aren't told what the allegation is.


We have all experienced the inaccuracies and inconsistencies with inspections. We all know someone who has been put through hell with Ofsted? My inspection came out as outstanding even though i didn't do the SEF, my friend got good and when she asked how she could get outstanding the inspector said complete SEF (along with a couple of other minor things). This was the same inspector i had:rolleyes:

We all know and I would think most of us ARE in favour of regulation but what changes do you think are needed/necessary in respect of Ofsted.They all need to say the same thing and have set guidelines to grade us on, not their opinion.

I have always had a positive relationship with Ofsted but do think things need looking at. With this new man in charge though do you think this will happen?

[PixiePetal]

It's funny talking to other minders who had complaints made and how badly they were treated by ofsted, I had the opposite ofsted were good with me, very apologetic that they had t come out again, supporting me and encouraging me in trying to get me to counter complain so they could investigate the complainant. I never did but do regret it now.
It was my own DO who I would like to see removed from her job ( useless waste of money she is) wouldn't know the truth if it bit her on her backside

My COs job was cut in the cut backs. Sad - NOT! No help to me what so ever.

As I said the Compliance Officer who came to me was great and looked me in the eye to say 'you can appeal if you want'. He said afterwards that he could not tell me to actually do it as it was my choice but was urging me to! He listened to me sobbing on his visits and on the phone too :o

[Carol M]

I used to have faith in OFSTED. I was of the opinion that I would welcome them into my house at any time and be more than happy to be inspected more often and unanounced.
Since Tribal and Prospects have taken over the inspections of Childminders evidence seems to say that they haven't got a clue, their inspectors seem to make judgements on settings which are inconsistant and sometimes way off the mark .
I am hopeful that when the revised EYFS comes out their inspectors are trained!
I feel with comments from Sir Michael, even tho the statistics were published, Ofsted will not want to "waste" money on training these inspectors so as they are all following a format for inspections of Childminders. The very uniqueness of Childminders will prove inspectors will still make wild and uniformed guesses.
I am all for Ofsted investigating but they MUST inform the Childminder of the allegation AND who it has come from. This may just stop the hundreds of malicious complaints Ofsted receive against Childminders. It may also save Ofsted a huge amount of money due to time wasted following up a malicious complaint.
That said, I agree they do have the power to close or suspend for serious issues but there MUST be a procedure for Childminders to respond and get things resolved quickly. Also to counter complain and sue. ( This is where we need a supportive Professional body) :thumbsup:
At the moment I am feeling that Ofsted would be rather glad if we didn't exist.
Carol xx

[The Juggler]

i think all inspectors should have a degree in early years

i think they should have extensive experience of minding or have been a minder themselves

i think they should appreciate that we will deliver the EYFS differently and have different levels of paperwork - we work alone and in our houses and have families (we don't have office time and planning time during the day like nursery and school staff)

i think they should appreciate we can't have 2 sinks, sep. nappy changes areas and all those other ridiculous things they ask for sometimes - we have to work within the confines of the structure and size of our house.

I think they need to better appreciate our working alone, We don't have a chef /cook so children will to some extent have to sit and wait whilst meal prep is done

I think they need to better appreciate it is our homes, I don't want it head to toe in posters and displays but I do display and what I have will have to do :p


I think they need to weigh off the amazing sensory rooms, equipment nurseries have with our advantages - the ability to be sooo flexibile in our planning, our ability to know our children inside out, to do impromptu outings or baking activities to change menus whenever we like.


I don't think they have too much power but I think some inspectors think they are God and nothing will ever be good enough for them. I think the training is completely insufficient for them to understand what we do.

I think the inspections are completely non consistent and one CM will get satisfactory for doing exactly the same things or not having the same things as an Outstanding one sometimes because they get an ogre of an inspector.

I think that they are getting more sensisble in terms of investigating complaints - especially malicious ones but I think the dimwits on the helpline numbers often give completely unknowledgable advice.

there you go, that's my rant over :laughing:

[PixiePetal]

Fantastic rant Juggler :clapping::clapping::clapping:

I can ditto all of it!

[loocyloo]

my father in laws partner is an ofsted inspector and has said she could do childminder inspections, but won't as she has no real knowledge of how a childminder works. ( although i think she would be fair and sensible ) my first inspector told me she had never inspected a childminder before, only schools, with nurseries attached :eek: but she was lovely and 'got' childminders!

Do you think that Ofsted has TOO much power? in a way, as their doesn't seem to be anyone regulating them!
Do you think they don't understand childminders?not really! and the new man at thew top doesn't have a clue
Do you think that they don't know their own rules and regulations and/or that they move the goalposts to suit themselves?yes. i think the people who answer the phone just say what they think, or they put keywords into the pc and give whatever answer that tells them, without actually listening to the question.

Considering when Ofsted have to investigate a complaint.. do you think its wrong or right that they can force the immediate closure of a childminder and without telling them the nature of the complaint for instancein a serious complaint then i accept them closing a childminder down, but the childminder must be told why, but i think ofsted need to move faster in sorting situations out.


We have all experienced the inaccuracies and inconsistencies with inspections. We all know someone who has been put through hell with Ofsted?

We all know and I would think most of us ARE in favour of regulation but what changes do you think are needed/necessary in respect of Ofsted. they need to understand that we are not nurseries, that we work at home, often on our own. we don't have the same resources avaialable as a nursery, but on the other hand, we can change our plans rapidly with the children so if a childs interest is sparked by buses for example, we could right there and then, go out and watch and ride the bus!

i agree with what everyone else has written too

[karensmart4]

Right, now then, hu hum where shall I start ..... deep breath :blush:

Personally I think ALL Ofsted inspectors need consistency and as they blatantly do not have any.... they all need training. I think they should have cm inspectors... Nursery/Infant/Junior School Inspectors and Senior School Inspectors, all specialising in their chosen area.

I think they ALL should treat us with respect and as individuals as we do with the children in our care.

I think they should respect that this is our homes, we live here!

I think they should stop telling us to do more and more paperwork........ Why should we be the ones to approach and pester other settings to encourage them to work in partnership with us.

I had a look around our local Children's Centre yesterday...I was at our drop-in and the manager came in, I introduced myself and asked about the shared care we do with 3 children and how we can communicate, so she showed me around and gave me their lj's to look through. They DO NOT DO NEXT STEPS.. they only do 2 LINE OBSERVATIONS...they do not do themes, topics or individual planning unless the child is sen!!!!!!! They have an Outstanding grade....... WHY are we told we must do these things plus more !!!!!

I'm going to have a cup of tea now and chill out :blush:

[sarah707]

I think we are all basically saying very similar things - consistency and understanding are key...

Plus fairness - they are the only body I know of which can accuse you of something and call you guilty until proven innocent - and not even have a legal obligation to tell you why! How on earth can that be right? :(

They also often don't follow their own guidelines and literature and that makes me cross - the goalposts change without telling us too. Who else has to sit an exam without the correct guidance and preparation notes?

Very interesting answers so far guys! :D

[gegele]

i think they should have a childminder unit, with inspector who only inspec childminders so they can have a training and get a better understanding of a childminder's work and their magic :D

i must admit that it must be difficult for someone who visit nursery and school to suddenly rate a childminder... you do get your habits in your job and it can be really difficult for them as well as for us BUT we're the only side suffering from it.:(

they should recruit ex minder, train them to inspect. it would be a lot better and fairer as they would know the other side of the coin...

the hours we work and the fact that we are alone HAS to be a bigger factor. My paperwork keeping is shocking!!! I know it's all about organisation but i have a busy week and i can't seem to catch up with housework, i'm so late in my washing it's ridiculous my washing is going to need its own bedroom soon!!!! i have 2new lo settling and work really long hour...
anyway they should take more in consideration the fact that you have to carry the kids to their cars because they don't want to leave rather that the beautiful planning that is not worth the paper it's written on....

i would be happy to become an inspector :-)

[Pipsqueak]

i think they should have a childminder unit, with inspector who only inspec childminders so they can have a training and get a better understanding of a childminder's work and their magic :D


this is a great idea Gegele:clapping:

i must admit that it must be difficult for someone who visit nursery and school to suddenly rate a childminder... you do get your habits in your job and it can be really difficult for them as well as for us BUT we're the only side suffering from it.:(

Excellent point

they should recruit ex minder, train them to inspect. it would be a lot better and fairer as they would know the other side of the coin...

yes i agree I do think that to inspect a minder they should have some sort of background in minding....

the hours we work and the fact that we are alone HAS to be a bigger factor. My paperwork keeping is shocking!!! I know it's all about organisation but i have a busy week and i can't seem to catch up with housework, i'm so late in my washing it's ridiculous my washing is going to need its own bedroom soon!!!! i have 2new lo settling and work really long hour...
anyway they should take more in consideration the fact that you have to carry the kids to their cars because they don't want to leave rather that the beautiful planning that is not worth the paper it's written on....

i would be happy to become an inspector :-)

oh yes Giggles for Inspector - you'd be welcome at mine!:thumbsup:

[gegele]

oh yes Giggles for Inspector - you'd be welcome at mine!:thumbsup:

i need to buy a suit:D

[The Juggler]

i need to buy a suit:D

no come in your jeans and t-shirt and join in the messy play :p

[Pipsqueak]

i need to buy a suit:D

no..... your 'scrubs' will be just peachy!

[The Juggler]

no..... your 'scrubs' will be just peachy!

yeah she can be a minging hag with us Pip :laughing:

[Pipsqueak]

yeah she can be a minging hag with us Pip :laughing:

yep!:laughing:

[stardust]

Pipsqueak you have inspired me to set up a petition for fairer inspections xx

[Pipsqueak]

Keeping this bumped....

keep those thoughts a-coming please everyone

[JCrakers]

I think changes to inspections are very much needed. Having just been inspected by a lady from Prospect who said "Its easier for nurseries to be outstanding because they have bigger networks and SEN children" FINE...but why are you comparing me with this info when you should be inspecting me as a childminder. You should be comparing me to a childminder only and not a nursery in town.... I cant compete with a nursery and shouldnt have to as I am a totally different setting.

Inspections are not consistant, what one inspector thinks is an outstanding setting another may pick many faults. It all seems to depend on the individual inspectors personality and not actual checklists.

My inspector didnt seem to have any knowledge of how childminders work otherwise wouldnt have made such a statement

I havent been in the unfortunate place of having a complaint made against me and hope I never am as it seems Ofsted can shut us down without even an explanation which I feel is wrong. We are very vunerable and although children do need to be protected firstly, the strain and stress on trying to keep business afloat for a number of weeks because someone has reported you must be awful. Closing a childminder down with no for-warning or even an explanation is wrong and means the childminder can have no income for weeks and then all the mindees have found alternative care leaving you with nothing and a bad reputation to climb out of. :(

[snufflepuff]

I agree with the juggler!

[Pipsqueak]

Gosh you all love Ofsted that much?????

:D

[sillybeans]

I've not had much dealings with Ofsted but having just had my inspection;

Understanding and flexibility in inspectors are key - although my inspector was nice the more I think about some of her comments the crosser I get.

I got 'satisfactory' in working in partnership -
I have no LO's attending another setting or who have special needs, therefore have different practicioners involved.
I do have a letter of introduction template in place for when and if this happens, the releveant permissions from parents and also have conducted a inclusion audit (thanks Sarah 707)

The inspector said she couldn't give me higher as I have no evidence - i'd rather it have been ungraded in this area due to circumstances

One of my recommendations is to involve parents in my planning and hold 'parents evenings' -
I argued that I had excellent communication with all my parents and listed them *Daily Diaries *Chats at pick up and drop off *Monthly picture emails *Quarterly newsletters *Sheet for each child recording parents key comments regarding child to help with my planning *Parents stop for a cuppa every other month to look at LJ and achievement folder *6 monthly questionnaire

I am only one person and the thought of giving up my evening (even only once in a while) is dreadful. She said she had to give recommendations and this was one of the few she could think of?!?

The other recommendation is to 'focus children more quickly after joinng' -
This was in relation to one child who started in Jan and was coming Mon and Wed. He didn't settle and continually cried. After the first month I did a baseline assessment and was not convinced I had a true reflection of his abilities, I hadn't been able to observe him playing enough through all the tears and screaming. Spoke to mum and we changed his days to Tues/Weds and it has worked wonders. Spent a further month observing and did another assessment, which I beleive is a truer reflection of his ailities and interests.

I explained that this was why there was less obs etc for him and on the one hand she really praised me for letting him go at his own pace and on the other told me I had let him 'coast' for too long and that I should have 'focused' him sooner

I argued that i thought the EYFS was aimed at moving at the child's pace and I believed this was what I was doing - she just repeated that I had let it go on too long.

That was all she could give me - I asked how I could achieve outstanding and she said 'just keep doing what you're doing' :rolleyes:

Well that was helpful :(

As I said this is all I have to go on but I was left feeling confused and felt she was not particularly geared towards a childminder