I need a bit of help with Risk Assessments please

[katie78]

In the EYFS it says that we need to risk assess everything that comes into contact with children :eek:

I might be over thinking this but does it mean i have to risk assess things like cutlery, carpets, plates, dining chairs ???

I am about to start writting them for all the toys i have got ( i have done them for lots of things in the rooms the children will be in ) but my brain has just gone splurge with thinking too much !

Can anyone help please

Thanks so much in advance

Katie xxx

[mrs robbie williams]

at the moment i have only done risk assessments on places we visit, rooms in the house, school runs etc. not sure if we HAVE to do them for toys and resources, if we do i need a week off to get them in place lol

[joannetalbot]

hi

you do have to do a RA for everything a child comes into contact with so yes, this would include toys !! The best way to tackle it is to put your toys into groups otherwise your list would be sooooooooooo long!!

i've grouped my toys into the following categories:-

baby toys/small world figures, cars,animals/train set inc trains & accessories/baby gym, push along walker/jigsaws/musical instruments/large vehicles, trucks/wooden toys/construction toys (and break it down for age appropriate ones)/home corner, role play/DVD's/dressing up clothes/soft toys/book corner/dolls/ride on toys/ICT equipment

...........i'm sure there are others but this is what works for me!!

if you do an RA for every room in the house + outside then you've covered those + you'll need to think about Arts/Crafts, baking & gardening too!! i'm sure i've seen a RA for Arts/crafts on here if you do a search!!

hope that helps :)

jo x

[joannetalbot]

sorry...........meant to say that you'll need a RA for every separate outing that you do with the children !! :panic:

it really is never ending :angry:

jox

[Penny1959]

I may be out of line with some others (but also know that some do think like me) but Risk assessment do not need to be seperate for every single thing nor do they need to be tick list that you go through and tick every day.

Yes you do do need to risk assess - but the biggest thing is supervision and stage appropriate for each child.

In my opinion doing A RA before the event is a watse of time as one or more things will have changed.

My system is based on common sense - and my written risk assessments for outings jare ust a checklist of what I check. I do not tick to say 'everything ok' but I do record if something a risk on that day for the children in my care that day.

For toys and equipment in my setting I just have two lines written down one which says that when setting up the environment I visual check each item for cleanliness and safety, and the other which says all safety equipment needed for the children attending that day will be checked and fitted.

Of course not saying that my way is right (although clearly Ofsted thought it was) nor am I saying that those who do more formal risk assessment are wrong - what I am saying is there is more than one way to do risk assessments and there is no need to do in one way just because some chose to do it that way - think about your own setting and what works for you - both in terms of keeping the children safe and in terms of what you actually have time to do .

Penny :)

[joannetalbot]

hi penny

i totally agree with all that you've said as that's exactly how i used to do all my RA's. i also have a close friend who's a CM and are settings are almost identical. We help each other out in all aspects of childminding. She was inspected last year and given the thumbs up by Ofsted for her RA's so i knew that mine were good too!!

however, i then went on a RA course run by my local council. the only reason i went on it was to fulful Ofsted's training requirements so in theory another boxed ticked!!

the course showed me a completely different way to do RA's. i showed the tutur my old system and she said no, they weren't correct. so hence the reason why i've now completely revamped by RA system using the "5 point" risk template that most people seem to use.

i hated doing it as it was so time consuming but having been told by the tutor that mine were incorrect sent me into a bit of a panic!

i'm due an inspection anytime so fingers crossed they'll be happy with what i've done but i've also kept copies of my old system so that I can prove that I did have RA's in place, just in a different format !

jo x

[Penny1959]

Hello Jo,

Of course each inspector will have different ideas - and it was over a year ago that I had my inspection - although someone on the forum did recently get a good using my method.

I don't blame you for deciding not to take the risk and to follow guidance from tutor (although as a tutor and an ex CDO / Network co - I feel I can say that some tutors etc- only put forward one view - their own)

Lets hope that when the reviewed EFYS is implemented Dame Ticknell has been listened to and 'experts' stop saying things are a requirement of EYFS when the clearly are not!

Good luck

Penny :)

[catlyn]

I just have general risk assesments...none for individual toys or groups of toys...I have one for the arts and crafts and thats it....got a good on my inspection last week without the inspector even mentioneing them

[lulubelle]

what is the 5 point risk assesment? when i done my cypop5 we were just told to list the thing we were risk assessing ie window/curtains what the hazard was, what was in place to stop hazard date of review and then a space for changes/comments from review. is that right?

[joannetalbot]

hi lulubelle

the 5 point risk assessment is a template that the NCMA recommend you use (well, in our area anyway :rolleyes: ) to risk assess your setting.

if you go onto the south gloucester county council website (really sorry, i'm useless at attaching links :blush: ) you can download this template plus they have identified risks for you per room plus they have an outing one too. It's a good starting point then you can add other bits that are relevant to your setting.

HTH

jo x

[joannetalbot]

hi penny

i've also recently been on a Reflecting cultural diversity course (again to tick a box with ofsted :blush: ) and was given a sample copy of an equality of opportunity policy. i'd only updated my policies in March so was pretty confident mine was good and up to date but it didn't bear much resemblance to the copy i was given :panic: i'd used the sample policy from the NCMA website when i'd reviewed my policies to make sure that i'd got everything covered so i was quite upset when i was again being given conflicting info.

i brought this up with our local NCMA rep who said i DIDN'T have to use the sample policy from the course :angry:

it's becoming so difficult to work your way through the maze of conflicting info that we are given..........my problem is that i just want to get it right so when someone tells me i've done something wrong i then wanna put it right, if that makes sense!!

i'm done with courses this year as they just generate too much work :panic:

jo x

[Penny1959]

hi penny

i've also recently been on a Reflecting cultural diversity course (again to tick a box with ofsted :blush: ) and was given a sample copy of an equality of opportunity policy. i'd only updated my policies in March so was pretty confident mine was good and up to date but it didn't bear much resemblance to the copy i was given :panic: i'd used the sample policy from the NCMA website when i'd reviewed my policies to make sure that i'd got everything covered so i was quite upset when i was again being given conflicting info.

i brought this up with our local NCMA rep who said i DIDN'T have to use the sample policy from the course :angry:

it's becoming so difficult to work your way through the maze of conflicting info that we are given..........my problem is that i just want to get it right so when someone tells me i've done something wrong i then wanna put it right, if that makes sense!!

i'm done with courses this year as they just generate too much work :panic:

jo x

Hi Jo
Your ncma rep is right (in my opinion) and you don't have to use any sample policy - how could you? Your policies have to reflect your setting, your views etc. The EYFS has very little that is actually stated in black and white - nearly all of it has at least a thousand different ways to do it 'right'. I am sure that you put a lot of time, effort and thought into your policy and clearly did some research - my advice - stick with yours.

Penny :)

[joannetalbot]

hi penny

the sample policy I was given said in black and white what we should include to fulfil our requirements under the EYFS and the tutor (again :angry: ) was adamant that that was what you should include in your E/opportunity policy. So i went into a panic again :panic: thinking my E/O policy wasn't correct.

The sample policy she showed me did turn out to be almost identical to an Accredited CM policy (which the NCMA had kindly let me have a copy of ages ago just to look at) but as i'm not accredited it didn't mean much to me at the time. Once i'd cross referenced it with the sample policy i then used most of that wording to re-do mine, but taking out bits which were obviously not relevant to me as a non accredited CM.

I've just got to the stage now where I'm fed up of being told so many different ways of doing things and then ending up doing stuff twice :angry: so hence why i'm not doing any more courses this year and will just stay up to date with the latest info through the normal channels! (like on here :) )

jo x

[sarah707]

I think it's quite common for people to worry when they are shown different ways to do things Jo.

What you have to remember is that that's all they are... someone else's ways!

Other people can only give you advice. At the end of the day you have to be prepared to argue why you do it the way you do it and how it works for you!

Like Penny says there are hundreds of ways of interpreting the Eyfs, the majority of them right and ok with inspectors.

I went on a RA course recently and a friend who did the same course was downgraded by her inspector on keeping children safe because she was told the material from the course wasn't in enough detail! :rolleyes:

Find your own ways by looking for good practice advice like on here and be confident that you are meeting the requirements and doing the best for the children. Then you will be able to get on with your job! :D

[Penny1959]

Good advice from Sarah

Jo - I would love to meet your tutor and have a good discussion with her - especially about Equal opps policies.

Mine is not of 'standard' format - it does not have a 'reguardless of' list - because in my view a list is in itself discriminates - for example on the 'lists' I have yet to see in a policy (and believe me in my old job I saw hundreds) anything that covers ME

No mention of large people - and need for robust chairs :D
No mention of need to provide regular snacks / meals - I am diabetic and as such I am disabled
No mention of the need to provide alternatives to the telephone for verbal communication (I HATE speaking on the phone and will do anything to avoid it)

Ok so being a bit flipant - but the point is the list could run to 20 pages and still not cover everyone (have you noticed how the list is getting longer

Here is the line from my policy - avoiding the 'list'
• I value and respect everyone and will not discriminate against anyone for any reason, every child and every adult is valued as an individual and will be treated in accordance to their own specific need.

Oh yes I would love a discussion with your tutor!

Penny :)

[lulubelle]

hi lulubelle

the 5 point risk assessment is a template that the NCMA recommend you use (well, in our area anyway :rolleyes: ) to risk assess your setting.

if you go onto the south gloucester county council website (really sorry, i'm useless at attaching links :blush: ) you can download this template plus they have identified risks for you per room plus they have an outing one too. It's a good starting point then you can add other bits that are relevant to your setting.

HTH

jo x

thank you that looks great! i am printing it out now and gonna adapt mine!

[joannetalbot]

Hi Sarah & Penny

great advice thankyou:)

when you go on training courses that are run by your local Early Years team to give you the best advice you kinda put trust in the tutors to give you the correct information and guide you through the topic they are teaching. so i guess i did trust that i was being given the correct information :blush: as did every other childminder/setting in the room as we all panicked over the E O policy and felt that we had to re-write ours so it wasn't just me that went into a flap :blush:

the NCMA do have a lot of issues with the way certain courses/information is being handled about the EYFS but surely they should all be talking to each other to make sure that doesn't happen. At the end of the day we are all working to make sure that the outcomes for children are the best that we can give them so all the people involved in that loop should all be singing off the same hymn sheet :rolleyes: or is that too much to ask :eek:

when i did re-do my policy i tried to keep the warmth and friendliness in it as the sample policy i was given was quite "cold" and also keeping it personal to me and my setting. i did get my NCMA rep to take a look at it and she thought it was a good policy for a non accredited CM. :) i've attached a copy (well i think i have ??) so you can see what i came up with eventually!!

my problem is i'm a perfectionist so when someone gives me conflicting info it knocks my confidence and i have to work my way through things until i;m happy again that i'm doing things right. the knock on effect of that is that i've felt that i;ve been drowning in paperwork lately and haven't really been able to enjoy the children which is the saddest thing of all :blush:

[Penny1959]

Hello Jo
Thanks for sharing your policy - and as your ncma rep says it is a good policy (not sure what she means by 'for a non accredited childminder'children as the only addional aspect is ensuring all can access an appropriate curiculum according to their needs and via NEF.


My policy is nowhere as comprehensive or as long as yours - I took the decission that my policies would be parent friendly and that words would be kept clear and jargon free - asd a childminder I did not consider it necessary to to reference to other things other than the EYFS - so no list of Acts.

I want to know that my parents have read and understood all the main points in my policies - and therefore these points would be all the things I consider to be important to ensure the safety and development of the children.

As you have so kindly shared yours I will try to attach mine - I think you might be shocked at how basic it seems - but believe me both my pre reg and my graded inspectors read all my policies from cover to cover (because as both said - despite not knowing me personally - I was well known to Ofsted and they did not want to risk missing something because they knew either i or their team leader would pull them up on it!! (me and my opinions - even known to Ofsted for my honesty and views)

Anyway I think the difference between yours and mine demonstrates very nicely to anyone reading this thread that there is indeed no one 'right' way - and a lot of it is about having the confidence to say 'I do it this way because ...'

As I said you have a great policy - and please don't think my way is right - it is for me and that is all that matters as far as I am concerned.

Penny :)

[PixiePetal]

Penny - I am so pleased to see your policy as my policies are very much like yours - some I read on Bromley for example were just jargon to me and I decided to write in a way that parents would hopefully not glaze over reading :)

I researched other peoples online and came up with something that suited the way I talk and see things. When I have reviewed over the years, I have cut back even more.

My RAs are a list for me and what I will look out for and take in preparation for a day out to the farm park for example - I will add mine here

When I go there I look through RA - see if anything needs adding or add if things need changing when I get back (new animal/climbing frame to note)

When I had my inspection in November last year all was fine :thumbsup: I didn't see the point of writing RAs which meant nothing to me and inspector was obviously happy. As these were my way of doing it I was confident in speaking to inspector that I could make them work for ME. Common sense rules!

I do not use 5 point system - just confused me :blush:

[joannetalbot]

hi penny

your E O policy is very much like my old E O policy before I went on the blooming course and made all the changes :blush:

you're spot on when you say i should feel confident to say "i do it this way because......." because i don't feel that i've ever had the confidence to be able to say this and thats because ultimately i've never felt confident about the way i've tackled the EYFS :blush:

i've always felt as if i've muddled along trying to do what i feel is best. my inspection was due in May but Ofsted are very behind at the moment so who knows when it'll happen but i guess only then will i know for sure that the way i've tackled things is okay !!

the lists of Acts etc at the end of my policies were again something that was drummed into me that had to be included on the policy but i think next time i do go on a course i will be a little more reserved about trusting what i am being told:panic:

your help/advice has been fab, thankyou :) Jo x

[Penny1959]

hi penny

your E O policy is very much like my old E O policy before I went on the blooming course and made all the changes :blush:

you're spot on when you say i should feel confident to say "i do it this way because......." because i don't feel that i've ever had the confidence to be able to say this and thats because ultimately i've never felt confident about the way i've tackled the EYFS :blush:

i've always felt as if i've muddled along trying to do what i feel is best. my inspection was due in May but Ofsted are very behind at the moment so who knows when it'll happen but i guess only then will i know for sure that the way i've tackled things is okay !!

the lists of Acts etc at the end of my policies were again something that was drummed into me that had to be included on the policy but i think next time i do go on a course i will be a little more reserved about trusting what i am being told:panic:

your help/advice has been fab, thankyou :) Jo x

Thanks for kind comments Jo - my pleasure

Penny :)

[Penny1959]

Penny - I am so pleased to see your policy as my policies are very much like yours - some I read on Bromley for example were just jargon to me and I decided to write in a way that parents would hopefully not glaze over reading :)

I researched other peoples online and came up with something that suited the way I talk and see things. When I have reviewed over the years, I have cut back even more.

My RAs are a list for me and what I will look out for and take in preparation for a day out to the farm park for example - I will add mine here

When I go there I look through RA - see if anything needs adding or add if things need changing when I get back (new animal/climbing frame to note)

When I had my inspection in November last year all was fine :thumbsup: I didn't see the point of writing RAs which meant nothing to me and inspector was obviously happy. As these were my way of doing it I was confident in speaking to inspector that I could make them work for ME. Common sense rules!

I do not use 5 point system - just confused me :blush:

Thanks for sharing Pixiepetal - it is good to know that others use the common sense system for policies and risk assessment - and to note that common sense system are ok with Ofsted - in fact are more than ok :D

Penny :)